Good guide to flashing?

[jon-]

and no, I don't mean the type with an overcoat and a surprised looking school girl...

I've been thinking of taking the next step in photography and buying a speedlite with an umbrella and a few reflectors / backgrounds so I can play with mock-studio lighting.

Does any one know of any good guides / books on the subject, I like to research a lot before moving in. I've pretty much settled on the Canon 580EX II, and the Speedlite Wireless Remote Transmitter ST-E2 (if it works with my camera) to allow me to position the lighting well away from the camera.

I've been reading the strobist for tips and tricks but that's a bit all over the place.

I've seen http://www.amazon.co.uk/Canon-Speedlite-System-Dig... , not sure if it's any good?

[mas99]

strobist

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101....

zack arias

http://www.zarias.com/

There are others but thats where I would start

[stigmundfreud]

forget the st-e2, so limited it is untrue.Wasted my hard earned on that POS

Get yourself a decent (not ebay cheapo) wireless trigger. You wont get ETTL but you will get the freedom to position lights anywhere you want. The ST-E2 works on line of sight only its utterly useless for anything that requires creative lighting. For the price, get a good wireless radio transmitter. I cant repeat enough just how utterly wk the st-e2 is.

Actually its great in line of sight

[VxDuncan]

Joe McNallys "The Hot Shoe Diaries" is a fantastic book. Great read if a little chatty in style. Intoduces a shot then has a couple of pages explaining how it was done and the thinking behind it. All organised into single flash shots, through two, three and lots (upto about 80 IIRC!).

Only downside is it's massively Nikon biased. All Nikon CLS (nikons wireless system) biased so will grate a bit if you use the other system.

[jon-]

stigmundfreud said:

forget the st-e2, so limited it is untrue.Wasted my hard earned on that POS

Get yourself a decent (not ebay cheapo) wireless trigger. You wont get ETTL but you will get the freedom to position lights anywhere you want. The ST-E2 works on line of sight only its utterly useless for anything that requires creative lighting. For the price, get a good wireless radio transmitter. I cant repeat enough just how utterly wk the st-e2 is.

Actually its great in line of sight

Thanks for the warning on the ST-E2. I thought it looked like infared, but I haven't done enough research yet to find all the facts. As you point out, the fact it's line of sight only makes it pretty pointless for what i want to do.

It begs the question, if I'm going to lose ETTL is there any point spending £350 on a 580EX when I could get a cheaper, just as powerful flash from another brand?

[Ed_P]

If it's primarily indoor studio-type work you're contemplating; the ST-E2 should be fine. I use one to control two Speedlights and have had problems at all. True, outdoors (where there's less chance of the signal being "bounced" onto the ST-E2), it's definitely not 100% and wireless triggers are the answer. But again, for guaranteed 100% performance, you've got to invest in the better quality wireless kit. As always ...

[stigmundfreud]

jon- said:

stigmundfreud said:

forget the st-e2, so limited it is untrue.Wasted my hard earned on that POS

Get yourself a decent (not ebay cheapo) wireless trigger. You wont get ETTL but you will get the freedom to position lights anywhere you want. The ST-E2 works on line of sight only its utterly useless for anything that requires creative lighting. For the price, get a good wireless radio transmitter. I cant repeat enough just how utterly wk the st-e2 is.

Actually its great in line of sight

Thanks for the warning on the ST-E2. I thought it looked like infared, but I haven't done enough research yet to find all the facts. As you point out, the fact it's line of sight only makes it pretty pointless for what i want to do.

It begs the question, if I'm going to lose ETTL is there any point spending £350 on a 580EX when I could get a cheaper, just as powerful flash from another brand?

Well I'd go 430s tbh. ETTL outdoors is fine but you want ultimate control. You can do this with the ST-E2 so you can turn it on and off as you choose, I believe pocketwizard are about to launch an ETTL wireless trigger but they are £££.

You could, as you say, save a lot of money and just buy some cheap flashes to control manually.

[jon-]

I'm leaning more towards a cheaper flash and cheap wireless trigger set like this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wireless-Flash-Trigger-for-C...

Even if it breaks after 6 months and only fires every other trigger, it's still (looks) good value for money.

[Colin RedGriff]

This has some good information

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

[jon-]

mas99 said:

strobist

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101....

Colin RedGriff said:

This has some good information

http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

Thanks. I've read both today, much clearer.

So I've decided on a shoot through umbrella, a cheap wireless trigger, and a couple of cheap flashes off ebay.

Now, to find the cheap flashes

[Trooper2]

[phil633]

They look OOF to me.

[LongQ]

jon- said:

Even if it breaks after 6 months and only fires every other trigger, it's still (looks) good value for money.

If it does that you will find life very frustrating ... believe me.

Strobist recommends going manual rather than even considering any TTL options. I suspect he is right unless you are using Nikon (maybe). The Nikon flash system is clearly very good indeed. I read somewhere that a patent of long standing keeps it that way and free of fully functional copies.

I have some Metz kit that offers sort of manual on some of the units but not by a direct setting. Getting the balance right when using multiple flashes is, well, interesting. The Metz units come with sensors to cut the flash time depending on the amount of light measured at the flash. Works really well so long as none of the units pick up stray flash from elsewhere - like another unit pointing in their direction. I'm working on a few options to improve the control of that.

As for Manual - on most of the heads I have that's all or nothing. OK for distance work - they are very powerful - but challenging for closer stuff and confined spaces.

For radio triggers PocketWizards are excellent but not at all cheap. They o have a huge range if that is important to you. I settled for the next level down and bought Elinchrom Skyports. Whilst the market is still evolving and there have been a few new products released in recent months the lowest end of the market seems to suffer from variable quality. Reports I have read suggest that when they're good they're good enough. When they're not ...

[Snapper7]

I would say get the following

2x Canon 580EX II flashguns
1x Sekonic 358 Flash meter with Pocket wizard wireless trigger, (reads flash reading in day light and give ratio of Flash to daylight)
3x Pocket Wizard wireless flash trigger
2x Stand and Hotshoe/brollie heads
2x Brollies

Forget the ST-E2 I didn't rate it at all, its is very inconsistent and rubbish in sunlight.

Forget infrared triggering, in day light it doesn't work. Wireless is the only way to go.

The only was to get consistent exposures is to set everything manually and use a flash meter.

Hope that helps

Edited by Snapper7 on Friday 8th May 22:59

[Simpo Two]

If you're in the '3x pocket wizard' category then I'd bin the flashguns and go for monoblocs. Then bin the brollies and get softboxes

[LongQ]

Snapper7 said:

I would say get the following

2x Canon 580EX II flashguns
1x Sekonic 358 Flash meter with Pocket wizard wireless trigger, (reads flash reading in day light and give ratio of Flash to daylight)
3x Pocket Wizard wireless flash trigger
2x Stand and Hotshoe/brollie heads
2x Brollies

Forget the ST-E2 I didn't rate it at all, its is very inconsistent and rubbish in sunlight.

Forget infrared triggering, in day light it doesn't work. Wireless is the only way to go.

The only was to get consistent exposures is to set everything manually and use a flash meter.

Hope that helps

Edited by Snapper7 on Friday 8th May 22:59

Hmm.

Add in Simpo's suggestions, plus a couple of large power packs for the monoblocs and a vehicle upgrade to a carry it all unless you will never leave your studio. (You do have a studio don't you?)Take out a large mortgage to fund the resulting numbers.

If you are married the chances are you soon won't be so if the partner is vaguely presentable you could consider trying to sell it to offset the mortgage cost.

Budget into your revenue plan for an assistant and the costs of a fitness regime with attendant chiropractor.

[jon-]

brilliant guys!

If i sold all my cars, and bike I might be able to fund that ideal setup. For now, as I'm just an amateur messing around and interested in lighting I will have to be a little more sensible and opt for some second hand flashes and some cheap wireless ebay radio triggers. Strobist say they work 95% of the time (as long as they're not too close together) which is 45% better than I'll be expecting.

From my understanding, unless you're spending mega bucks, once the flash is off camera and on radio ETTL is never going to work, so I might as well get cheaper flashes and get used to setting them manually with umbrellas and the like.

I'm going to see if i can borrow a speedlite 580 to see how much I'd actually use a decent flash on camera with ETTL etc.

[LongQ]

jon- said:

brilliant guys!

If i sold all my cars, and bike I might be able to fund that ideal setup. For now, as I'm just an amateur messing around and interested in lighting I will have to be a little more sensible and opt for some second hand flashes and some cheap wireless ebay radio triggers. Strobist say they work 95% of the time (as long as they're not too close together) which is 45% better than I'll be expecting.

From my understanding, unless you're spending mega bucks, once the flash is off camera and on radio ETTL is never going to work, so I might as well get cheaper flashes and get used to setting them manually with umbrellas and the like.

I'm going to see if i can borrow a speedlite 580 to see how much I'd actually use a decent flash on camera with ETTL etc.

I think you understood well.

I rented a 580EX II a year or so ago. Not enough time with it before the shoot meant whatever I got seemed to be purely by chance. I later read the manual (download) in more detail to see what I might have been doing wrong. Still no wiser. A can screw up just as many shots with running my Metz units on full manual so I don't see why I need to shell out another few hundred quid for the same effect! Plan for a month to work through the options and try them.

[Snapper7]

Simpo Two said:

If you're in the '3x pocket wizard' category then I'd bin the flashguns and go for monoblocs. Then bin the brollies and get softboxes

But you could use this set up anywhere, it is portable and easy to use on location.