Lost Opportunity..... Stoneleigh et al
Discussion
Stoneleigh Got Me Thinking... is it me or.....
I really enjoyed Stoneleigh this year, maybe because I stayed dry or maybe because I am looking for a new project?! However at the end of the day and on my way home I got to thinking about the day and something was bothering me.
I have to attend exhibitions and conferences more regularly then I would like in my real world job and therefore I know the drill and why it is like it is.
Let me explain, exhibitions are not a jolly for companies to group together for a weekend (or whenever) they are an opportunity to generate leads and new business by gathering potential customers on one location and entice them into parting with the hard earned!
To this end it is the norm to be bombarded with ever more sophisticated sales techniques.
Now to my point, Detling and two weeks later Stoneleigh. Not once was I captured on someones database, I wasn't scanned (didn't have a tag), cards were not passed out.... nothing. AND I was saying to companies that I was looking for a new project and I was discussing budgets with them.
I know we are in a cottage industry world but please these companies are selling circa between £5k and £60k products to a limited market why are they not maximising every lead?
I know some of you are glad that they don't pester you but think of it from there viewpoint its a business and they need to sell.
So come on Kit companies I don't expect The London Motor Show but get some sales savy or risk the alternitive.
Rant over
..........Neil
I really enjoyed Stoneleigh this year, maybe because I stayed dry or maybe because I am looking for a new project?! However at the end of the day and on my way home I got to thinking about the day and something was bothering me.
I have to attend exhibitions and conferences more regularly then I would like in my real world job and therefore I know the drill and why it is like it is.
Let me explain, exhibitions are not a jolly for companies to group together for a weekend (or whenever) they are an opportunity to generate leads and new business by gathering potential customers on one location and entice them into parting with the hard earned!
To this end it is the norm to be bombarded with ever more sophisticated sales techniques.
Now to my point, Detling and two weeks later Stoneleigh. Not once was I captured on someones database, I wasn't scanned (didn't have a tag), cards were not passed out.... nothing. AND I was saying to companies that I was looking for a new project and I was discussing budgets with them.
I know we are in a cottage industry world but please these companies are selling circa between £5k and £60k products to a limited market why are they not maximising every lead?
I know some of you are glad that they don't pester you but think of it from there viewpoint its a business and they need to sell.
So come on Kit companies I don't expect The London Motor Show but get some sales savy or risk the alternitive.
Rant over
..........Neil
I understand where you're coming from - however, a hell of a lot of people who attend the shows are what I would call "leaflet baggers": they turn up, and pick up leaflets to take home, and then do nothing with them.
I'm not a kit car manufacturer in any way, but I do promote my club at Detling (and also at Stoneleigh, although it was my first time with a club presence at Stoneleigh, so wasn't as prepared as Detling), and I have done other shows (notably computer shows in the '90s). You see the same people every year, and they're all just browsing.
It's difficult to know who really is the genuine person, and who is just having a look.
I'm not a kit car manufacturer in any way, but I do promote my club at Detling (and also at Stoneleigh, although it was my first time with a club presence at Stoneleigh, so wasn't as prepared as Detling), and I have done other shows (notably computer shows in the '90s). You see the same people every year, and they're all just browsing.
It's difficult to know who really is the genuine person, and who is just having a look.
The kit car industry is rather different to the car industry and so too are the customers.
We tend to be much more discerning and independent. With all due respect to the more regular show promotions and shows (I've attended both on both sides of the stands) We don't tend to be people who embrace the marketing hype and infact personally it turns me off a company. Actually there's a superb specialist press who do a fantastic job of promoting our cars. The Kit Car magazines. Owning a Kit Car is very different to owning a 3 Series BMW.
The Kit car scene is not awash with money and we prefer to spend it on the cars rather than the gloss. The cars speak for themselves. Then if you are keen to have one you go to the owners clubs and ask the people who drive and build the cars what they are really like.
Oh as an aside I have produced literature which I've given away at shows and found it up for sale on e-bay at £5 plus postage the following week. Great initiative on behalf of the opportunist but I'd rather spend my money on the cars.
We tend to be much more discerning and independent. With all due respect to the more regular show promotions and shows (I've attended both on both sides of the stands) We don't tend to be people who embrace the marketing hype and infact personally it turns me off a company. Actually there's a superb specialist press who do a fantastic job of promoting our cars. The Kit Car magazines. Owning a Kit Car is very different to owning a 3 Series BMW.
The Kit car scene is not awash with money and we prefer to spend it on the cars rather than the gloss. The cars speak for themselves. Then if you are keen to have one you go to the owners clubs and ask the people who drive and build the cars what they are really like.
Oh as an aside I have produced literature which I've given away at shows and found it up for sale on e-bay at £5 plus postage the following week. Great initiative on behalf of the opportunist but I'd rather spend my money on the cars.
Edited by qdos on Friday 8th May 09:39
I only sold one kit at Stoneleigh and one kit plus a used car at Detling. Hardly covering expenses but lots of folk enjoyed our display of three very unusual cars. Around 2500 of my cards were taken over the 2 shows so I guess they have our details. I wont be trying to contact people to try and talk them into a purchase though. If they like what we have they will come and see us, maybe next week or maybe in 2 years. Some interested parties were young kids. They will be back.
I think its the interpretation of "potential customers", most large trade exhibitions, are mid week and very specific, some companies do have stands there just to have a presence, but all in all its much more focused (and expensive) I know as I do both.
I feel most kit car shows are 50% day out for the family, 45% enthusiast but no intention of buying, 5% looking to buy a car.
That would be a very large database of dead leads.
As long as potential customers can do there own research on the web on products and come and visit, plus a few shows a year I really think thats pretty good marketing commitment by the kit car industry, based on how small it is.
I feel most kit car shows are 50% day out for the family, 45% enthusiast but no intention of buying, 5% looking to buy a car.
That would be a very large database of dead leads.
As long as potential customers can do there own research on the web on products and come and visit, plus a few shows a year I really think thats pretty good marketing commitment by the kit car industry, based on how small it is.
I would tend to agree with Joe T about the number of serious potential buyers at the shows,admittedly they are a way of showing the features of the car and the quality of your product to the public,as well as enabling the customer to assess the personality of the guy he is going to have to phone up with seemingly blindingly obvious questions and expect courteous replies ,let's face it we 've all done it!,but to actually sell the product an exhilarating test drive/ride and a look round the premises is a far better way to get people to commit to a purchase IMHO.(I vividly remember a "low flying" session in the wilds of Lincolnshire which induced me to part with my hard earned cash ,with the adrenalin still coursing through my veins,I couldn't wait to BUY,the car didn't need any selling!)
I also agree that the mainstream marketing methods would be a waste of time and money in the majority of manufacturers cases ,the customer base
is very small and discerning and on the whole,looking for high performance/perceived status vehicles at a relatively low cost,yes I know that the top end kits are far from cheap,I am referring to the other half of the kit market.The more expensive end can usually get space in the mainstream motoring mags /programmes,in their case I can see that a slightly different approach would help,the interest generated would tend to make the potential customer search out the company and contact them ,the
process of converting the lead into a sale could then start.
In the case of chasing potential customers through(Kit car) show induced leads ,very few would take kindly to someone trying to get them to buy ,in fact personally I have found it counter productive,I hate to be pressured,it drives me away,but then everyone's different.
I also agree that the mainstream marketing methods would be a waste of time and money in the majority of manufacturers cases ,the customer base
is very small and discerning and on the whole,looking for high performance/perceived status vehicles at a relatively low cost,yes I know that the top end kits are far from cheap,I am referring to the other half of the kit market.The more expensive end can usually get space in the mainstream motoring mags /programmes,in their case I can see that a slightly different approach would help,the interest generated would tend to make the potential customer search out the company and contact them ,the
process of converting the lead into a sale could then start.
In the case of chasing potential customers through(Kit car) show induced leads ,very few would take kindly to someone trying to get them to buy ,in fact personally I have found it counter productive,I hate to be pressured,it drives me away,but then everyone's different.
Although I agree that kit car makers could improve their marketing I don't think taking names and giving out cards is the main issue: personally I don't like giving out my details unless I'm seriously interested. I would prefer to do some more detailed research online - and herein lies the problem: I find most manufacturers websites to be underdeveloped, to put it politely
This of course is not specific to kit car manufacturers - but I don't understand it whatever the business; I'm not involved in web development in any capacity but in this day and age I don't get how businesses fail to understand that their website is an ambassador for their brand - and should be regarded as such. Yes, yes - I know the quality of the website and that of the product are not actually linked, but to expect a potential customer to not be influenced by the quality of their online experience is naive at best.
I was recently visited a certain manufacturer's website: there are far too many heading links which could have been laid out in a far simpler and more logical manner, but many were broken anyway - including the ones for the manual, newsletter and brochure (some since fixed - though the newsletter is still Summer '07...), other pages were empty, and a few committed the cardinal sin of web design: the 'coming soon / under construction' message - if it's under construction why have a s*dding link to it!?! There was little text and only a few images, the enlarge image links were tangled - and the largest image I can find was 800 pixels and most were smaller. This did not charitably dispose me towards them and given I was looking at a sevenalike it's not as if this is a product unique to them...
We know it's a cottage industry, so don't expect a sprawling multimedia-laden sites to rival Ford's. Personally, I would trade a professionally developed site updated once in a blue moon for something 'live', unpretentious and contains what I'm most looking for: information - and this can be done with minimal outlay and little effort, which makes it all the more maddening.
You can build and host a website for free at Yola, admittedly the templates are a bit basic and there's only 5 pages before you have to subscribe - but it's a start. Set up a Flickr gallery - you can upload images at a rate of 20Mb or 2 90sec. videos a month up to a total of 200 without paying a penny (and an unlimited pro account costs a princely £25 p.a.), where people can view and download (if you choose to allow it) images and videos of your product for them to lust over. Set up a free blog at blogspot, and as well as being able to make announcements and updates (with pics as well), there are widgets that allow people to subscribe to your blog, and you can link to an owners club or build diary - plus loads of other stuff. Link to them from your yola site and bang! you're in business. A complete web novice could have something up and running in an afternoon (assuming the content in terms of text, photos, etc had been prepared in advance)
This of course is not specific to kit car manufacturers - but I don't understand it whatever the business; I'm not involved in web development in any capacity but in this day and age I don't get how businesses fail to understand that their website is an ambassador for their brand - and should be regarded as such. Yes, yes - I know the quality of the website and that of the product are not actually linked, but to expect a potential customer to not be influenced by the quality of their online experience is naive at best.
I was recently visited a certain manufacturer's website: there are far too many heading links which could have been laid out in a far simpler and more logical manner, but many were broken anyway - including the ones for the manual, newsletter and brochure (some since fixed - though the newsletter is still Summer '07...), other pages were empty, and a few committed the cardinal sin of web design: the 'coming soon / under construction' message - if it's under construction why have a s*dding link to it!?! There was little text and only a few images, the enlarge image links were tangled - and the largest image I can find was 800 pixels and most were smaller. This did not charitably dispose me towards them and given I was looking at a sevenalike it's not as if this is a product unique to them...
We know it's a cottage industry, so don't expect a sprawling multimedia-laden sites to rival Ford's. Personally, I would trade a professionally developed site updated once in a blue moon for something 'live', unpretentious and contains what I'm most looking for: information - and this can be done with minimal outlay and little effort, which makes it all the more maddening.
You can build and host a website for free at Yola, admittedly the templates are a bit basic and there's only 5 pages before you have to subscribe - but it's a start. Set up a Flickr gallery - you can upload images at a rate of 20Mb or 2 90sec. videos a month up to a total of 200 without paying a penny (and an unlimited pro account costs a princely £25 p.a.), where people can view and download (if you choose to allow it) images and videos of your product for them to lust over. Set up a free blog at blogspot, and as well as being able to make announcements and updates (with pics as well), there are widgets that allow people to subscribe to your blog, and you can link to an owners club or build diary - plus loads of other stuff. Link to them from your yola site and bang! you're in business. A complete web novice could have something up and running in an afternoon (assuming the content in terms of text, photos, etc had been prepared in advance)
stig mills said:
I only sold one kit at Stoneleigh and one kit plus a used car at Detling. Hardly covering expenses but lots of folk enjoyed our display of three very unusual cars. Around 2500 of my cards were taken over the 2 shows so I guess they have our details. I wont be trying to contact people to try and talk them into a purchase though. If they like what we have they will come and see us, maybe next week or maybe in 2 years. Some interested parties were young kids. They will be back.
I think you have the right approach. I very much enjoyed having a look at your cars at Stoneleigh. In a year or two when I'm looking to build a track focussed car the Atomic will definitely be on my shortlist. Adopting pushier marketing tactics would not have had the same effect.Did anyone else find the Westfield stand off-putting? They tried to do a motorshow type display with flash coloured lights and videao screens. I think they really have missed the point of a kit car show where potential customers want to get close to the cars and sit in them. And why all the plastic barriers round the edge of the stand??
I couldn't figure out what exactly they were marketing and when I walked past all the representatives sat together behind the barriers talking amongst themselves.
Just my two pence and maybe others found it more impressive??
I couldn't figure out what exactly they were marketing and when I walked past all the representatives sat together behind the barriers talking amongst themselves.
Just my two pence and maybe others found it more impressive??
Good point there. If you go to a motor show with main stream cars you'll find an awful lot of the cars are fenced off and only 'special' people allowed anywhere near them.
Our cars were not fenced off and people were allowed to come right up and touch and try the cars for size, We had a number of children who were obviously not going to be customers for a good few years to come, They were wonderfully behaved and a delight to have visit the stand and yes several had their photos taken at the wheel by their proud parents.
I think it's partly to do with the cars, partly to do with the people that build the cars and partly also the general public, People respect what Kit Car builders have done by building these machines. Those showing them are proud to show them and it's this atmosphere which it picked up upon by the show goers. I don't think you get that with sales people in smart suits surrounded by 'don't talk to me' pretty girls.
Our cars were not fenced off and people were allowed to come right up and touch and try the cars for size, We had a number of children who were obviously not going to be customers for a good few years to come, They were wonderfully behaved and a delight to have visit the stand and yes several had their photos taken at the wheel by their proud parents.
I think it's partly to do with the cars, partly to do with the people that build the cars and partly also the general public, People respect what Kit Car builders have done by building these machines. Those showing them are proud to show them and it's this atmosphere which it picked up upon by the show goers. I don't think you get that with sales people in smart suits surrounded by 'don't talk to me' pretty girls.
qdos said:
Good point there. If you go to a motor show with main stream cars you'll find an awful lot of the cars are fenced off and only 'special' people allowed anywhere near them.
Our cars were not fenced off and people were allowed to come right up and touch and try the cars for size, We had a number of children who were obviously not going to be customers for a good few years to come, They were wonderfully behaved and a delight to have visit the stand and yes several had their photos taken at the wheel by their proud parents.
I think it's partly to do with the cars, partly to do with the people that build the cars and partly also the general public, People respect what Kit Car builders have done by building these machines. Those showing them are proud to show them and it's this atmosphere which it picked up upon by the show goers. I don't think you get that with sales people in smart suits surrounded by 'don't talk to me' pretty girls.
I am not advocating any of the "sales" tosh you describe above, I hate that as much as anyone (although I don't mind looking at the "don't talk to me girls"...... I digress! Our cars were not fenced off and people were allowed to come right up and touch and try the cars for size, We had a number of children who were obviously not going to be customers for a good few years to come, They were wonderfully behaved and a delight to have visit the stand and yes several had their photos taken at the wheel by their proud parents.
I think it's partly to do with the cars, partly to do with the people that build the cars and partly also the general public, People respect what Kit Car builders have done by building these machines. Those showing them are proud to show them and it's this atmosphere which it picked up upon by the show goers. I don't think you get that with sales people in smart suits surrounded by 'don't talk to me' pretty girls.
I don't believe many companies sell anything at a show directly? But if a company knows who has visited its stand and what there requirements are then they could focus / target marketing at the right level, A test drive, a factory visit, a discount in 2 years time or even a poster for the young lad with an invite to come and take a look at the cars when he is 17 and got his license! My point is these ar small companies (in the main) and small companies need to work smart to get the most out of there budget. If you leave a stand at a show feeling you have had a hard sell from them then they got it wrong!
IMHO.............Neil
nashman said:
I don't believe many companies sell anything at a show directly? But if a company knows who has visited its stand and what there requirements are then they could focus / target marketing at the right level, A test drive, a factory visit, a discount in 2 years time or even a poster for the young lad with an invite to come and take a look at the cars when he is 17 and got his license! My point is these ar small companies (in the main) and small companies need to work smart to get the most out of there budget. If you leave a stand at a show feeling you have had a hard sell from them then they got it wrong!
I think you'll find that companies do do this. We do so anyway, Including selling at the show. We sold a Deronda last weekend at Stoneleigh so we must be doing it right and we've got contact details for those who want to know more so we'll be inviting them to some track day events.qdos said:
nashman said:
I don't believe many companies sell anything at a show directly? But if a company knows who has visited its stand and what there requirements are then they could focus / target marketing at the right level, A test drive, a factory visit, a discount in 2 years time or even a poster for the young lad with an invite to come and take a look at the cars when he is 17 and got his license! My point is these ar small companies (in the main) and small companies need to work smart to get the most out of there budget. If you leave a stand at a show feeling you have had a hard sell from them then they got it wrong!
I think you'll find that companies do do this. We do so anyway, Including selling at the show. We sold a Deronda last weekend at Stoneleigh so we must be doing it right and we've got contact details for those who want to know more so we'll be inviting them to some track day events.........Neil
I have to agree about the website thing, it's an easy thing to do for comparatively great gain (like engaging with owners' clubs, surely). Perhaps it wasn't always like this, but I expect most people do their research online these days, starting with the manufacturer's website. I guess the problem is, it's all very well setting up a website but someone has to update it, and usually the time is seen to be better spent ironing out some technical kinks etc. 'Tis the nature of the beast.
bogwoppit said:
but someone has to update it
And that's my gripe - a few years ago that would have been 'someone' would have needed to know html or at least be technically proficient, today it's anyone who can type or plug a camera into the computer and press 'post' or 'upload' - so what's the excuse? If it's your business you should take the time: I don't think I'm exaggerating to say that to do as I suggested would take no more than a day to get going (including preparing content), and keeping it live needn't take more than an hour or two a week - unless there's actually real news to report. Keeping a site live is a good way to enjoy regular visits, especially if you're trying to drum up interest in the next big thing: I cannot believe the paucity of information on the Aeon site concerning the Epona, and it can't be a confidentiality issue else as it's relatively easy to find stuff in various forums. If I were them I'd be milking this for all it's worth to build up the buzz - all the while being appropriately vague about dates and deadlines... ;-)
(and just to be clear, Aeon's is not the site I was referring to in my previous post)
qdos said:
The kit car industry is rather different to the car industry and so too are the customers.
We tend to be much more discerning and independent. With all due respect to the more regular show promotions and shows (I've attended both on both sides of the stands) We don't tend to be people who embrace the marketing hype and infact personally it turns me off a company. Actually there's a superb specialist press who do a fantastic job of promoting our cars. The Kit Car magazines. Owning a Kit Car is very different to owning a 3 Series BMW.
The Kit car scene is not awash with money and we prefer to spend it on the cars rather than the gloss. The cars speak for themselves. Then if you are keen to have one you go to the owners clubs and ask the people who drive and build the cars what they are really like.
Oh as an aside I have produced literature which I've given away at shows and found it up for sale on e-bay at £5 plus postage the following week. Great initiative on behalf of the opportunist but I'd rather spend my money on the cars.
with respect, imo that is a fairly blinkered view, the major players in the car industry have embraced marketing of all kinds, because it influences sales massively, probably more than any journo's opinion. People log on to kit car manufacturers websites, and tbh if the site isn't that pretty or hard to navigate, i would reckon a large % of people would be turned off by it, and you would lose a potential sale.We tend to be much more discerning and independent. With all due respect to the more regular show promotions and shows (I've attended both on both sides of the stands) We don't tend to be people who embrace the marketing hype and infact personally it turns me off a company. Actually there's a superb specialist press who do a fantastic job of promoting our cars. The Kit Car magazines. Owning a Kit Car is very different to owning a 3 Series BMW.
The Kit car scene is not awash with money and we prefer to spend it on the cars rather than the gloss. The cars speak for themselves. Then if you are keen to have one you go to the owners clubs and ask the people who drive and build the cars what they are really like.
Oh as an aside I have produced literature which I've given away at shows and found it up for sale on e-bay at £5 plus postage the following week. Great initiative on behalf of the opportunist but I'd rather spend my money on the cars.
Edited by qdos on Friday 8th May 09:39
how hard is it to get an email address out of people, when they're browsing? not very, and u have a nearly free way of marketing,and potentialy excellent list of potential buyers.
Edited by badger pants on Monday 11th May 12:42
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