Wheel bearings (again)

[B@man]

After the shock problems finally got the car back together and it's better than before but its still clattering and clunking as I take up drive, so the problem must be elsewhere, it doesn't seem to do it under heavy braking so I'm beggining to think its gearbox / prop / diff related.

Anyway decided to check my hub & wheel nuts today and the rear wheel I've just changed the bearing on has got bloody play in it it's definitely the bearing as you can see the drive shaft yolk move as you wobble the drive flange, so I've had the nut and washer off again (Loc-tite did a good job won't need to go to the gym this weekend) and I can't find anything that would prevent the bearing being put under the correct compression.

I've only done 100 miles since I put it back together

It's looking like a st bearing, is that possible, I've never known it before, your thoughts would be appreciated before I "speak" with the supplier..

[gsx600]

I was advised to retighten my bearing after 50 or so miles, it was loose after 20! Retighntened it and pinned and been ok since

Just need to put the oil pump back on now

[barrington]

may be worth looking at the outer uj i had a lot of clunking on my 280 witch i had rebuilt with all new itams the uj had not done 50 miles i put the handbrake on and rocked the car back and forward one bearing on the uj had brocken up

[djc100]

Are you sure the play in in the bearing?

The drive shaft doubles as the upper wishbone, play in the UJ(s) allows the upright to move when you pull / push on the wheel. It's very very easy to confuse play in the Ujs with bearing play. Knackered Uj's will give the take up noise you describe.

The rear bearing inner race is 'one piece' so tightening the drive shaft nut does not change play in the bearing. The nut does hold the bearing in place and therefore the rear wheel so quite important its tight.

r's
David

[B@man]

djc100 said:

Are you sure the play in in the bearing?

if I wobble the drive flange I can see the outer UJ yolk moving in the opposite direction to which I move the flange

djc100 said:

The drive shaft doubles as the upper wishbone, play in the UJ(s) allows the upright to move when you pull / push on the wheel. It's very very easy to confuse play in the Ujs with bearing play. Knackered Uj's will give the take up noise you describe.

I suspected the same however I have had a hefty bar (OK the jack handle) shoved into both UJ's trying to find any play and there is none, In some respects I wish it was a UJ - getting bored with wheel bearings !

djc100 said:

The rear bearing inner race is 'one piece' so tightening the drive shaft nut does not change play in the bearing. The nut does hold the bearing in place and therefore the rear wheel so quite important its tight.

I suspected as such - looks like the bearing is crap anyone know the BSL part number for just the bearing (as I have two new seals now) ?

At £40 + delivery I'm gona see if I can send the thing back.

[gsx600]

I'd get one from TVR Carparts as probably know the correct one for the car

[SEvans]

Was the bearing a reputable make? I was warned when I bought some UJ's a while back that there was some cheap copy stuff around.
Did you use a press to push the bearing in? I know it's possible to bash the bearing in with a hammer but personally I'd press them in. Cheers Steve

[B@man]

SEvans said:

Was the bearing a reputable make? I was warned when I bought some UJ's a while back that there was some cheap copy stuff around.
Did you use a press to push the bearing in? I know it's possible to bash the bearing in with a hammer but personally I'd press them in. Cheers Steve

Bearing was in a green "veco automotive" box, bought from an e-bay shop I'm begging to think that it's some imported cheapo ste in a decent box.

And it was only slightly cheaper than the one from tvrcarparts (obviously not after you factor in doing the job twice) vendor has agreed to consider a refund if I send it back.

Bearing was carefully drifted into place using the old bearing outer race as a drift, I must have fitted dozens of bearings in the same way.

[adam quantrill]

What grease did you use? I also had one get loose quite soon after I replaced it, and it turned out that the shoulder on the stub axle had been damaged, so I had a small amount turned off to make the shoulder flat and square again. Also shimmed the other end to compensate. Agd fitted another bearing - still OK after 200 miles now.

I would tighten it again (but maybe not to the full 220lbf on the second go) and pin it instead of loctite, or apply a dab of paint if you really thing the loctite will work but want to check it doesn't move.

If it goes again then it's time for a new bearing.

At least the nuts and bolts holding it on will be easier to remove this time!

[leorest]

B@man said:

...It's looking like a st bearing, is that possible, I've never known it before, your thoughts would be appreciated before I "speak" with the supplier..

I have been told that even in the aero engine industry that it can be expected that some bearings will fail prematurely and it is not fully understood why. I'd return it based on it not being of merchantable quality.

[B@man]

adam quantrill said:

What grease did you use? I also had one get loose quite soon after I replaced it, and it turned out that the shoulder on the stub axle had been damaged, so I had a small amount turned off to make the shoulder flat and square again. Also shimmed the other end to compensate. And fitted another bearing - still OK after 200 miles now.

I would tighten it again (but maybe not to the full 220lbf on the second go) and pin it instead of loctite, or apply a dab of paint if you really thing the loctite will work but want to check it doesn't move.

If it goes again then it's time for a new bearing.

At least the nuts and bolts holding it on will be easier to remove this time!

Hi Adam,

Bearing was a fully sealed unit not sure what type of grease was inside ?

I've ordered another one from TVR car parts and will check the fit on the stub axle before I put the whole thing back together (again).

Don't really want to pin it as someone has done that before and made a right mess of the stub, It's OK but any more drilling will weaken the whole thing and I don't think I could drill another hole at such a wonky angle - having removed the nut with lots of thread loc on it I don't think it's going anywhere - However the paints a good idea.

New bearing should be here later in the week and for some reason I'm getting quite quick at taking this apart - at least I won't need the grinder this time (hope fully)

Hmm just noticed the radiators leaking now - TVR "Prevents your spanners going rusty"

[Wedg1e]

leorest said:

B@man said:

...It's looking like a st bearing, is that possible, I've never known it before, your thoughts would be appreciated before I "speak" with the supplier..

I have been told that even in the aero engine industry that it can be expected that some bearings will fail prematurely and it is not fully understood why. I'd return it based on it not being of merchantable quality.

Two of my clients are aero engine plants in Dublin, they have entire inspection departments who do nothing but check bearings on stripped-down engines! I usually manage to get chatting to the techies and they report very few component failures.. although some parts occasionally fail catastrophically and sometimes it's a knock-on effect of say a birdstrike.
Even the nuts and bolts have serial numbers and have traceability back to when they were a lump of ore in the ground!
My role is to maintain the equipment they use to detect defects... 6000A MPI, 320kV xray etc etc...

[B@man]

Wedg1e said:

leorest said:

B@man said:

...It's looking like a st bearing, is that possible, I've never known it before, your thoughts would be appreciated before I "speak" with the supplier..

I have been told that even in the aero engine industry that it can be expected that some bearings will fail prematurely and it is not fully understood why. I'd return it based on it not being of merchantable quality.

Two of my clients are aero engine plants in Dublin, they have entire inspection departments who do nothing but check bearings on stripped-down engines! I usually manage to get chatting to the techies and they report very few component failures.. although some parts occasionally fail catastrophically and sometimes it's a knock-on effect of say a birdstrike.
Even the nuts and bolts have serial numbers and have traceability back to when they were a lump of ore in the ground!
My role is to maintain the equipment they use to detect defects... 6000A MPI, 320kV xray etc etc...

Hi Ian.



Do they do wedges ?



P.S. Mr postman brought me something that used to live under a Jaguars bonnet this morning

Edited by B@man on Monday 11th May 20:25

[adam quantrill]

B@man said:

adam quantrill said:

What grease did you use?
I would tighten it again (but maybe not to the full 220lbf on the second go) and pin it instead of loctite, or apply a dab of paint if you really thing the loctite will work but want to check it doesn't move.

If it goes again then it's time for a new bearing.

At least the nuts and bolts holding it on will be easier to remove this time!

Hi Adam,

Bearing was a fully sealed unit not sure what type of grease was inside ?

I've ordered another one from TVR car parts and will check the fit on the stub axle before I put the whole thing back together (again).

Don't really want to pin it as someone has done that before and made a right mess of the stub, It's OK but any more drilling will weaken the whole thing and I don't think I could drill another hole at such a wonky angle - having removed the nut with lots of thread loc on it I don't think it's going anywhere - However the paints a good idea.

THis is unusual as the Granny bearings are quite easy to disassemble - the races usually pull off. I haven't seen a "sealed" one before. Maybe the grease was old? On my last one it was like candle wax, I cleaned it all off and put fresh LM stuff in.

As for pinning - you have to use lateral thinking here. Take off the nut and use a hacksaw to cut a shallow groove parallel with the existing hole in the end of the stub axle. THen put the nut back on and drill the nut where the line is on the stub axle. Result is no extra holes in the axle (maybe more holes in the nut but who cares).

[B@man]

New bearing arrived from TVR car parts...and

It looks identical to the previous flea bay one (fully sealed same part no etc), bloody broadband down at the moment so will post picture when reconnected, original bearing was not sealed so I'm tempted to take the seals out to increase the grease capacity, don't fancy doing this for a 3rd time next week or buggering up another £45 bearing

Cheers
SB

[adam quantrill]

I might have one spare granny one so don't dick about with it, I'll take a look at my stock. I'm sure tvrcarparts will give you a refund if it turns out to be different.

Incidentally did the last one look like this:



or more like this (open style):

Edited by adam quantrill on Thursday 14th May 00:35

[B@man]

Hi Adam,

The bearing that's fitted now has headache failed looks exactly like :



Pic most be from the same seller

The TVRcarparts bearing is identical (even part number IRB8513) apart from it comes with the correct seals rather than the granny ones.

I'll take the old... er new... bearing No2 off tomorrow evening if it's not raining and check the drive shaft location flange etc.

Bearing Number one was the open type as in the second picture, I think I'll phone TVRcarparts in the morning and explain my concern and ask how long they have been supplying this sealed type.

Edited by B@man on Thursday 14th May 20:34

[adam quantrill]

Bear (sic) in mind that with the Granny seals, at least you get one correct one. I've been buying bearings off ebay for the seals!

[B@man]

I've now got the bearing swap down to just over an hour and guess what it's exactly the same

Bearing fits perfectly on the half shaft, flange fits perfectly on the shaft and bearing but there is still play

I think it's the bearing housing that's worn or distorted as I've now ruled everything else out and all of the bearings have been easy to get in and out of the upright (no 10 ton press needed) furthermore the play is much much worse in the vertical plane and negligible in the horizontal plane which would be consistent with the direction of the greatest loading.

Oh well I now have a complete spare bearing kit - Anyone got an O/S A frame upright that's surplus to requirements - I'm in no rush as I've now had enough of wheel bearings so it can stay like it is until winter.

[adam quantrill]

That's unusual but I suppose not entirely impossible. If it's that oval you should be able to measure it with some calipers. Given that the housing bit is relatively low tolerance, perhaps one approach might be to put in a couple of welds along the top and bottom to 'pack it out' a bit.