Tell me about GTVs
Discussion
Afternoon all.
An uncharacteristic sortie into the Italian forums for me so pardon the intrusion.
My daily driver is getting tired and I'm thinking of a replacement. An intended house move might mean that soon the toy car may be garaged some way away, making the impromptu hoons that I currently enjoy a little more tricky. Currently I console myself driving around in the tintop with the thought of taking the Tiv out for a few low flypasts of the Hertfordshire countryside when I get home. With the possibility of that diminished, I need something which will keep my attention every day.
And so to the GTV. Always had a soft spot for them, especially in the black with red leather combo. It's on my shortlist of possibles for a replacement steed, however there are a couple of uncertainties.
Its worth pointing out at this juncture that as a TVR owner I am used to the constant and ill inform jibes about reliability and build quality, but I can't overlook the fact that Alfa's do, rightly or wrongly, have a reputation for reliability issues. I'm certain that its not as bad as people make out but do they suffer any more than any other marque? Presumably preventative maintenance and servicing are key?
Secondly, how do GTVs stand up to big mileages? I manage about 15k per year which, depending on contracts, could be much more. Would it be mad to buy something on, say 80k and expect it manage 2 years service?
Thanks for any answer or any other info you can impart.
An uncharacteristic sortie into the Italian forums for me so pardon the intrusion.
My daily driver is getting tired and I'm thinking of a replacement. An intended house move might mean that soon the toy car may be garaged some way away, making the impromptu hoons that I currently enjoy a little more tricky. Currently I console myself driving around in the tintop with the thought of taking the Tiv out for a few low flypasts of the Hertfordshire countryside when I get home. With the possibility of that diminished, I need something which will keep my attention every day.
And so to the GTV. Always had a soft spot for them, especially in the black with red leather combo. It's on my shortlist of possibles for a replacement steed, however there are a couple of uncertainties.
Its worth pointing out at this juncture that as a TVR owner I am used to the constant and ill inform jibes about reliability and build quality, but I can't overlook the fact that Alfa's do, rightly or wrongly, have a reputation for reliability issues. I'm certain that its not as bad as people make out but do they suffer any more than any other marque? Presumably preventative maintenance and servicing are key?
Secondly, how do GTVs stand up to big mileages? I manage about 15k per year which, depending on contracts, could be much more. Would it be mad to buy something on, say 80k and expect it manage 2 years service?
Thanks for any answer or any other info you can impart.
Buy a good one and get it looked after by a specialist who knows what they're doing (i.e. in all likelihood, not an AR main dealer) and it'll give years of good service.
The V6s are a fair bit tougher than the 4cyl models but I'm guessing that you'd be after one of those by default?
In my experience, the "Alfa reliability myth" has been exactly that: a myth. Granted I don't do big annual mileages in it any more but it is (a) the car I've owned for longest (by a country mile) and (b) the most reliable car I've ever owned. [Budweiser]True[/Budweiser]
Are you about in Bristol for the curry night this month? I'll probably drive mine so you can have a nose about if you like.
The V6s are a fair bit tougher than the 4cyl models but I'm guessing that you'd be after one of those by default?
In my experience, the "Alfa reliability myth" has been exactly that: a myth. Granted I don't do big annual mileages in it any more but it is (a) the car I've owned for longest (by a country mile) and (b) the most reliable car I've ever owned. [Budweiser]True[/Budweiser]
Are you about in Bristol for the curry night this month? I'll probably drive mine so you can have a nose about if you like.
They do seem prone to odd electrical faults, though perhaps less serious than french cars of the same vintage.. Airbag light seems a common one, caused by dodgy connectors under the seat, and the heated rear window timer dieing and draining the battery (and stopping the heater working).
My Twinny has a dead glovebox light, and the rad fan wiring seems to be under-rated (or the fans draw too much current) and gets a bit toasty.. so not so bad electrically.
The rear suspension is the only major mechanical weakspot, bushes made of lasagne, and failure can start to damage the alloy subframe. Also a full cambelt/tensioners/idlers and maybe variator every 3 years/36,000 miles on the Twin Spark, V6 is only 72,000 miles /6 years I think.
I went from an MX5 to a GTV and the Alfa seems a little less "sporty", the seat is a bit too high, the gear stick is a lot too wobbly, the exhaust is too over-muffled (4 silencers on the TS!) but despite have more weight, being Wrong Wheel Drive and only having about 20BHP more than the 5 its plenty nimble enough in the corners (passive rear steering), and much more ooompf on the straights.. looks substantially sexier too
My Twinny has a dead glovebox light, and the rad fan wiring seems to be under-rated (or the fans draw too much current) and gets a bit toasty.. so not so bad electrically.
The rear suspension is the only major mechanical weakspot, bushes made of lasagne, and failure can start to damage the alloy subframe. Also a full cambelt/tensioners/idlers and maybe variator every 3 years/36,000 miles on the Twin Spark, V6 is only 72,000 miles /6 years I think.
I went from an MX5 to a GTV and the Alfa seems a little less "sporty", the seat is a bit too high, the gear stick is a lot too wobbly, the exhaust is too over-muffled (4 silencers on the TS!) but despite have more weight, being Wrong Wheel Drive and only having about 20BHP more than the 5 its plenty nimble enough in the corners (passive rear steering), and much more ooompf on the straights.. looks substantially sexier too
Thanks for the replies chaps.
Pete - I might be around this month. Depends on the date which is, as always, quite tricky to pin down!
Between the TS and the V6. In my heart I know the V6 is the one to have. Given the big mileage and costs involved however I'm thinking that the TS might be the way to go. After all, I'll still have the Tiv for the pace and noise.
Are there any indicators of worn out rear bushes other than getting it up in the air and having a look? I'm guessing that if the work has been done, the owner will know/have the receipts.
Small electrical niggles I can live with but if there are known problems which are quite common, I can't see them being too tricky to sort out. I don't mind getting my hands dirty when needed.
Pete - I might be around this month. Depends on the date which is, as always, quite tricky to pin down!
Between the TS and the V6. In my heart I know the V6 is the one to have. Given the big mileage and costs involved however I'm thinking that the TS might be the way to go. After all, I'll still have the Tiv for the pace and noise.
Are there any indicators of worn out rear bushes other than getting it up in the air and having a look? I'm guessing that if the work has been done, the owner will know/have the receipts.
Small electrical niggles I can live with but if there are known problems which are quite common, I can't see them being too tricky to sort out. I don't mind getting my hands dirty when needed.
dougc said:
Between the TS and the V6. In my heart I know the V6 is the one to have. Given the big mileage and costs involved however I'm thinking that the TS might be the way to go.
I'd say V6 or don't bother. The TS isn't a bad car, but the V6 adds an awful lot to the package. Nothing much went wrong with my V6 other than wear-and-tear. It was 10 when I sold it, and it was a press car for the pII launch so wouldn't have had an easy life.
I averaged about 23mpg from mine - although a TS would be cheaper to run, remember that you'd need (roughly) twice as many £450 cambelt services than with the V6....
BigAlinEmbra said:
Seeing I love the GTV, just thought I'd throw in an alternative from when I was looking for one.
Fiat Coupe.
Wee bit more room in the back, and the 20vt it a smidge quicker.
If interiors are your thing then an Alfa with leather obviously shades it.
Fiat Coupe.
Wee bit more room in the back, and the 20vt it a smidge quicker.
If interiors are your thing then an Alfa with leather obviously shades it.
That's not a bad suggestion - I think a non-turbo 20v might be a better bet than a GTV TS, but I'd still take a V6 over a 20vt.Neither is a bad car, it's kind of swings and roundabouts - what the GTV loses in practicality it gains in handling (seats vs suspension).
dougc said:
Its worth pointing out at this juncture that as a TVR owner I am used to the constant and ill inform jibes about reliability and build quality, but I can't overlook the fact that Alfa's do, rightly or wrongly, have a reputation for reliability issues. I'm certain that its not as bad as people make out but do they suffer any more than any other marque? Presumably preventative maintenance and servicing are key?
After 13 years of TVR ownership I started buying Alfas in 2006. For over two years I have run a GTV V6 as my everyday car without any problems. To my mind the V6 really is the heart of this car and whilst it doesn't have the raw power of the TVRs the build quality is far better (the TVRs never let me down.)jamieboy said:
BigAlinEmbra said:
Seeing I love the GTV, just thought I'd throw in an alternative from when I was looking for one.
Fiat Coupe.
Wee bit more room in the back, and the 20vt it a smidge quicker.
If interiors are your thing then an Alfa with leather obviously shades it.
Fiat Coupe.
Wee bit more room in the back, and the 20vt it a smidge quicker.
If interiors are your thing then an Alfa with leather obviously shades it.
That's not a bad suggestion - I think a non-turbo 20v might be a better bet than a GTV TS, but I'd still take a V6 over a 20vt.Neither is a bad car, it's kind of swings and roundabouts - what the GTV loses in practicality it gains in handling (seats vs suspension).
Can see me chopping in the coupe for a V6 at some stage.
BigAlinEmbra said:
Heard horror stories about the rear suspension on GTV/Spiders, but could just be the usual alfa scaremongering nonsense.
Can see me chopping in the coupe for a V6 at some stage.
The TS's had a reputation for munching through the rear subframe if bushes were too worn - but the V6s don't tend to suffer in the same wayCan see me chopping in the coupe for a V6 at some stage.
Edited by maddog993 on Wednesday 13th May 22:49
BigAlinEmbra said:
Seeing I love the GTV, just thought I'd throw in an alternative from when I was looking for one.
Fiat Coupe.
Wee bit more room in the back, and the 20vt it a smidge quicker.
20VT is considerably more economical than the V6 as well, even my lead foot can get over 30mpg from it on a good motorway run, and it almost never falls below 28mpg on my 30 mile daily hoon..err commute through dual carriageway and twisty B roads. The Alfa is the better handling car though, at least with the TS engine (not driven a V6). Sadly the 20V (non-turbo) doesn't seem to return significantly better mileage given the performance discrepancy.Fiat Coupe.
Wee bit more room in the back, and the 20vt it a smidge quicker.
Personally I want a GTV with a 20VT engine, which is apparently not a particularly difficult swap.
Edited by Mr2Mike on Thursday 14th May 17:37
I've had a 2.0 TS for over 10 years. A great car: not the quickest out there, but who cares when it looks like that?! Still quick enough to be fun. Sadly due to to working out of country I've just sold it (a 98 TS in grey with red leather interior)
I think some of the other posts have picked up on the main points - rear suspension bushes 'knock' when worn; make sure the timing belts have been done recently (do NOT go anywhere near the spec interval & anyway the recommendation is every 3 years or so anyway!)
Overall reliability was excellent, worst problems being dealer induced! fuel consumption generally in the mid 30s from memory (I never bothered counting too much - and also too keen on the loud pedal!)
I think some of the other posts have picked up on the main points - rear suspension bushes 'knock' when worn; make sure the timing belts have been done recently (do NOT go anywhere near the spec interval & anyway the recommendation is every 3 years or so anyway!)
Overall reliability was excellent, worst problems being dealer induced! fuel consumption generally in the mid 30s from memory (I never bothered counting too much - and also too keen on the loud pedal!)
Edited by llewop on Sunday 17th May 21:12
I have a Phase 3 GTV V6 3.2.
I bought it to run as my daily snotter to replace a worn out BMW 328 Coupe.
The Alfa is nothing like as well built as the BMW, but it is ten times better than my old Griffith, which was a four wheeled shed in comparison.
So far the Alfa has proved to be faultlessly reliable.
Mine is completely standard apart from a Supersprint exhaust, which is a worthwhile addition.
The Alfa V6 is simply the best engine that I have ever driven. It sounds better than my Griffith ever did and is far nicer than the Ferrari 328 that I had a few years ago.
It is a shame that it doesn't produce a bit more power, but it is probably overpowered for a FWD car anyway.
The only faults that are worth moaning about are the awful turning circle and the fact that it is wrong wheel drive.
I manage about 19mpg, but I am sure that it could do much more if you could resist the temptation to wind up that V6.
I love mine.
I bought it to run as my daily snotter to replace a worn out BMW 328 Coupe.
The Alfa is nothing like as well built as the BMW, but it is ten times better than my old Griffith, which was a four wheeled shed in comparison.
So far the Alfa has proved to be faultlessly reliable.
Mine is completely standard apart from a Supersprint exhaust, which is a worthwhile addition.
The Alfa V6 is simply the best engine that I have ever driven. It sounds better than my Griffith ever did and is far nicer than the Ferrari 328 that I had a few years ago.
It is a shame that it doesn't produce a bit more power, but it is probably overpowered for a FWD car anyway.
The only faults that are worth moaning about are the awful turning circle and the fact that it is wrong wheel drive.
I manage about 19mpg, but I am sure that it could do much more if you could resist the temptation to wind up that V6.
I love mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YNWzIXFPOc&fea...
About 6min40 in
About 6min40 in
Edited by V6Alfisti on Monday 25th May 19:17
dougc said:
Thanks for the replies chaps.
Pete - I might be around this month. Depends on the date which is, as always, quite tricky to pin down!
Between the TS and the V6. In my heart I know the V6 is the one to have. Given the big mileage and costs involved however I'm thinking that the TS might be the way to go. After all, I'll still have the Tiv for the pace and noise.
Are there any indicators of worn out rear bushes other than getting it up in the air and having a look? I'm guessing that if the work has been done, the owner will know/have the receipts.
Small electrical niggles I can live with but if there are known problems which are quite common, I can't see them being too tricky to sort out. I don't mind getting my hands dirty when needed.
You can check by getting on the floor, the metal arm should be firmly in the middle with an equal amount of bush either side, if the arm is closer to one side, then it no doubt needs changing/Pete - I might be around this month. Depends on the date which is, as always, quite tricky to pin down!
Between the TS and the V6. In my heart I know the V6 is the one to have. Given the big mileage and costs involved however I'm thinking that the TS might be the way to go. After all, I'll still have the Tiv for the pace and noise.
Are there any indicators of worn out rear bushes other than getting it up in the air and having a look? I'm guessing that if the work has been done, the owner will know/have the receipts.
Small electrical niggles I can live with but if there are known problems which are quite common, I can't see them being too tricky to sort out. I don't mind getting my hands dirty when needed.
I had a V6 for about a year, it was an absolute dream.
Incredible engine, interior design of the highest order, its just a very special package.
Check for radiators that eat themselves, cambelts and bushes. That's about it really
Just bought one myself
I have a strange urge to go on pointless drives all the time, I've owned some fast/special cats in my time but there is a bit of an "X-Factor" with the Alfa. I think its the expectation of it breaking down
I wont mention the fact I've had it a week and been to the garage to find I could really use a grands worth of work doing
So while its on the bench I'm considering GTA Cams, Filter, CAT back exhaust, remap, polybushing all round and some koni shocks. Ok, that will be 2 grand but what the hell.....
I have a strange urge to go on pointless drives all the time, I've owned some fast/special cats in my time but there is a bit of an "X-Factor" with the Alfa. I think its the expectation of it breaking down
I wont mention the fact I've had it a week and been to the garage to find I could really use a grands worth of work doing
So while its on the bench I'm considering GTA Cams, Filter, CAT back exhaust, remap, polybushing all round and some koni shocks. Ok, that will be 2 grand but what the hell.....
dougc said:
Thanks for the replies chaps.
Are there any indicators of worn out rear bushes other than getting it up in the air and having a look? I'm guessing that if the work has been done, the owner will know/have the receipts.
When mine were going they 'clunked' particularly on bumpy roads - kind of as you went through the bump as I recall (was a while ago)Are there any indicators of worn out rear bushes other than getting it up in the air and having a look? I'm guessing that if the work has been done, the owner will know/have the receipts.
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