Clarification of the FiA's control of motorsport please.
Discussion
The FiA proclaims that it regulates all four-wheeled motorsport across the world.
There are other formulae run under other organisers, such as NASCAR, ACO and more. What function does the FiA provide for, for instance, races run by the ACO? I know there were threats during the spanky saga of the races in the USA and Canada being run outside the FiA, but what would that mean in practice?
I'm trying to think if I've ever seen an FiA flag at Le Mans.
There are other formulae run under other organisers, such as NASCAR, ACO and more. What function does the FiA provide for, for instance, races run by the ACO? I know there were threats during the spanky saga of the races in the USA and Canada being run outside the FiA, but what would that mean in practice?
I'm trying to think if I've ever seen an FiA flag at Le Mans.
Derek Smith said:
I know there were threats during the spanky saga of the races in the USA and Canada being run outside the FiA, but what would that mean in practice?
Very little other than that they would not have any official status. The FiA also asses circuit safety and are the globally accredited body for doing this so it would likely be difficult to get insurance without them.
Because we only hear about the FiA in the context of F1, it tarnishes truth which is that on the whole, the do a pretty good job.
The NCAP safety rating for road cars is, for example, an FiA initiative.
The FIA license everything, either directly themselves or vis the national motorsport bodies. That includes circuits, entrants, organisers and drivers. They also sanction (if that is the right word) race series and individual races that they do not themselves organise. That means that if any licensee participates in or hosts any non-FIA event they run the risk of losing their license. Thus if FOTA take their toys and play in another championship, the drivers could lose their license, that won't matter unless their Grand prix career is over and they want to race in sports cars etc. The entrants won;t care because they're sticking two fingers up to the FIA anyway. The losers would be the circuits as they wouldlose their track license and would not be able to riun any other "official" event.
That is why the FIA flag does not fly at Le Mans, they do not organise it (that's th ACO) but they control it through the licensing.
That is why the FIA flag does not fly at Le Mans, they do not organise it (that's th ACO) but they control it through the licensing.
dougc said:
The FiA's site is less than clear on the matter. What it says is:The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship and FIA World Touring Car Championship.
So where does that leave the ACO?
StevieBee said:
The NCAP safety rating for road cars is, for example, an FiA initiative.
That, I am afraid, is wrong, although I can see why the FIA's self-promotion agenda might have led you astray.NCAP was an American intiative in the 1970s.
In the '90s, based on the successful American experience, the British Transport Research Lab made the decision to promulgate an NCAP in Europe. Once it became obvious that this was going to work in Europe, the FIA hopped on the bandwagon.
Since then, the FIA have endeavoured to have great influence over NCAP, but it wasn't an FIA initiative, either the first time or the second time.
Cheers.
the FIA said:
The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport
Except for all the international four-wheel motor sport for which it doesn't administer the rules and regulations, that is. Not that the FIA would ever exaggerate its own importance...Yes, but Ferrari would have to create an FIA for its championship, it needs a governing body, and will it be be independent? And would you join it as another manufacturer. FIA has carved for it a niche, dealing with politicians, governments and the EU. Don't you see thats why they do NCAP to give themselves legitimacy as the first port of call with government essentially in europe, but by that recognition, from there out into the East, although not North America.
Northern Munkee said:
Yes, but Ferrari would have to create an FIA for its championship, it needs a governing body, and will it be be independent? And would you join it as another manufacturer. FIA has carved for it a niche, dealing with politicians, governments and the EU. Don't you see thats why they do NCAP to give themselves legitimacy as the first port of call with government essentially in europe, but by that recognition, from there out into the East, although not North America.
And that is the point, if the teams have a break away series they will have to create some sort of body to govern them, whilst it might be ok at first you can bet that by the end of the first season we'll all be on here say how bad they are..D
Derek Smith said:
dougc said:
The FiA's site is less than clear on the matter. What it says is:The FIA is also the governing body for motor sport worldwide. It administers the rules and regulations for all international four-wheel motor sport including the FIA Formula One World Championship, FIA World Rally Championship and FIA World Touring Car Championship.
So where does that leave the ACO?
For Example - The BRSCC are so authorised in this country, the TVRCC is not. So the TVR Tuscan Challenge events are run by the BRSCC. If the TVRCC tried to run a race meeting, everyone involved would run the risk of losing their license by competing in an unauthorised event.
german tony said:
The FIA website is lying. Which shouldn't suprise you in the slightest.
The ACO can do whatever it pleases - as can every other club. The point being that most other clubs just aren't big enough to tell the FIA to do 1.
Not true, the ACO has to organise events according to FIA rules.The ACO can do whatever it pleases - as can every other club. The point being that most other clubs just aren't big enough to tell the FIA to do 1.
profstoff said:
The ACO is authorised to organise motor sport events under FIA rules.
For Example - The BRSCC are so authorised in this country, the TVRCC is not. So the TVR Tuscan Challenge events are run by the BRSCC. If the TVRCC tried to run a race meeting, everyone involved would run the risk of losing their license by competing in an unauthorised event.
For Example - The BRSCC are so authorised in this country, the TVRCC is not. So the TVR Tuscan Challenge events are run by the BRSCC. If the TVRCC tried to run a race meeting, everyone involved would run the risk of losing their license by competing in an unauthorised event.
slivka said:
Yes.... sort of. The actual wording is as follows:
ART. 2 - ORGANISATION
2.1 - Every event will be organised according to :
a/ The provisions of the FIA International Sporting Code ;
b/ The "Sporting" and "Technical" Regulations of the Automobile
Club de l'Ouest. (ACO)
Thanks for the clarification. I think I undrstand it now.ART. 2 - ORGANISATION
2.1 - Every event will be organised according to :
a/ The provisions of the FIA International Sporting Code ;
b/ The "Sporting" and "Technical" Regulations of the Automobile
Club de l'Ouest. (ACO)
The ACO events have always seemed to me to only give the slightest nod in the direction of the FiA. I asked an official if I could stand at the end of the pitlane and video the rolling start of a Le Mans Endurance series race. I got a sort of shrug and was pushed into a brilliant slot. When the last car got away I got a nudge - visible on the video - and sent away. At an FiA event, when a press bloke overstepped a line in the pitlane he was surrounded by stewards - well two - and told off as one would a child. The threat was that one of them would be 'keeping an eye' on the journo from then on.
I was told a story of one car, back in the pack at Le Mans, that damaged its propshaft when spinning off in the middle of the night. As it didn't have a spare in the boot, or even a boot, there was no way it could carry on. It was no threat to the leaders of the event nor its class. Despite only the driver being allowed to work on it with the tools from the car, the propshaft was removed with the 'advice' from the pitlane mechanics. One of the other drivers arrived sporting a rather exagerated limp. He walked over to the car, the officials turned away, his limp mysteriously disappeared and, after a miraculous repair, the propshaft was refitted and the car went on its way.
Handshakes all round and the marshalls inherited a very linear momento of the event. And that is a true story. Happened in 2003.
It's just the sort of thing that doesn't happen in FiA events.
I can't see anyone in the ACO even knowing that the FiA has any responsibility for their events. or careing.
Yes, you are correct.
Whilst the ACO supplies the rules and regulations, it is all done under the FIA's sporting code.
Note that the ACO rules apply to LMS, ALMS and Le Mans, whilst the FIA has it's own GT series known (surprisingly) as the FIA GT series. It has different rules and regulations (Non ACO compliant.
Note: Although the FIA series has different rules and regulations, it has (for economic reasons) kept some of the regulations similar to those of the ACO in order to allow manufacturers to compete in both series.
The word is that the 2010 GT1 regulations for the new FIA GT1 World Championship will also be ACO compliant.
I hope this clear.
Whilst the ACO supplies the rules and regulations, it is all done under the FIA's sporting code.
Note that the ACO rules apply to LMS, ALMS and Le Mans, whilst the FIA has it's own GT series known (surprisingly) as the FIA GT series. It has different rules and regulations (Non ACO compliant.
Note: Although the FIA series has different rules and regulations, it has (for economic reasons) kept some of the regulations similar to those of the ACO in order to allow manufacturers to compete in both series.
The word is that the 2010 GT1 regulations for the new FIA GT1 World Championship will also be ACO compliant.
I hope this clear.
Derek Smith said:
I was told a story of one car, back in the pack at Le Mans, that damaged its propshaft when spinning off in the middle of the night. As it didn't have a spare in the boot, or even a boot, there was no way it could carry on. It was no threat to the leaders of the event nor its class. Despite only the driver being allowed to work on it with the tools from the car, the propshaft was removed with the 'advice' from the pitlane mechanics. One of the other drivers arrived sporting a rather exagerated limp. He walked over to the car, the officials turned away, his limp mysteriously disappeared and, after a miraculous repair, the propshaft was refitted and the car went on its way.
Handshakes all round and the marshalls inherited a very linear momento of the event. And that is a true story. Happened in 2003.
It's just the sort of thing that doesn't happen in FiA events.
I can't see anyone in the ACO even knowing that the FiA has any responsibility for their events. or careing.
TBH, talking to a few marshals that go over for Le Mans - that kind of thing is quite common in the race.Handshakes all round and the marshalls inherited a very linear momento of the event. And that is a true story. Happened in 2003.
It's just the sort of thing that doesn't happen in FiA events.
I can't see anyone in the ACO even knowing that the FiA has any responsibility for their events. or careing.
davidd said:
Northern Munkee said:
Yes, but Ferrari would have to create an FIA for its championship, it needs a governing body, and will it be be independent? And would you join it as another manufacturer. FIA has carved for it a niche, dealing with politicians, governments and the EU. Don't you see thats why they do NCAP to give themselves legitimacy as the first port of call with government essentially in europe, but by that recognition, from there out into the East, although not North America.
And that is the point, if the teams have a break away series they will have to create some sort of body to govern them, whilst it might be ok at first you can bet that by the end of the first season we'll all be on here say how bad they are..D
At least the ACO know how to put on a good race, regulate it well, but not worry about small infractions that make no difference to the result but do add to the spectacle whilst pleasing entrants. Roll on June 13th, 3pm.
Another thought on this - who decides that the FIA have the authority to rule on these things. Is there any reason why we can't set up PHUM (PistonHeads Universal Motorsport) and declare that it is the universal ruling body for all motorsport. Any National body is entitled to join, membership just $10 per club per year, collectively setting the regulations for motorsport and over-ruling the FIA.
In other words, what, constitutionally, gives the FIA the rights it seems to think it has?
In other words, what, constitutionally, gives the FIA the rights it seems to think it has?
andyps said:
Another thought on this - who decides that the FIA have the authority to rule on these things. Is there any reason why we can't set up PHUM (PistonHeads Universal Motorsport) and declare that it is the universal ruling body for all motorsport. Any National body is entitled to join, membership just $10 per club per year, collectively setting the regulations for motorsport and over-ruling the FIA.
In other words, what, constitutionally, gives the FIA the rights it seems to think it has?
Nothing at all gives them any inherent right to be the overarching regulator. Unfortunately, it's the unique beneficiary (and, in its individual case, largely the architect) of a rather powerful network effect, which is what would make dislodging it difficult.In other words, what, constitutionally, gives the FIA the rights it seems to think it has?
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