Audi Engine in Ultima
Discussion
To deviate from the standard Chevrolet engine is something that shouldn't be undertaken lightly. To finish the job you will either need a lot of talent and time, a lot of money or both.
If your after a certain motor in your car then I would suggest buying a car with that motor already in it. This will be a much cheaper route.
ken
If your after a certain motor in your car then I would suggest buying a car with that motor already in it. This will be a much cheaper route.
ken
k wright said:
To deviate from the standard Chevrolet engine is something that shouldn't be undertaken lightly. To finish the job you will either need a lot of talent and time, a lot of money or both.
If your after a certain motor in your car then I would suggest buying a car with that motor already in it. This will be a much cheaper route.
ken
Not to steal anybodies thunder but this is now a tried and tested setup, 400bhp NA and 900Kgs is alot of fun..... and I'm pritty sure it is a more reliable track car than most of the higher priced SBC's....If your after a certain motor in your car then I would suggest buying a car with that motor already in it. This will be a much cheaper route.
ken
60's design American V8 verses 00's design 8000rpm Audi V8.... ultimate power figures aside this is great track day motor for Sub £4K money.. cheap fun was what these cars are built for....
Who is the B7 RS4 engine guy - I think i sold him a flywheel and clutch - if it is not him i have sold one to someone putting that engine in a Ultima. We rev those engines close to 9k - bit weak on torque though.
I see the V10 ultima uses an Audi 2wd gearbox? He is missing a couple of turbos off it!
I see the V10 ultima uses an Audi 2wd gearbox? He is missing a couple of turbos off it!
Remeber to ask the racers what they think of 60's American technology on track. The last time I checked the Corvettes had significant handicaps to make sure they remained on the same lap as the other more modern cars.
To each his own, be aware that fitting a different motor will require a great deal of work.
To each his own, be aware that fitting a different motor will require a great deal of work.
There's a reasonable amount of knowledge out there already with the Audi engines. They're not what I want out of an Ultima but I can certainly see the appeal as they make a lovely road/track package. As Clive says, 400ish hp, 900kg + high revving, likely to be reliable, very good value. Got to be appealing if you have the know how or know someone that does?
deadscoob said:
There's a reasonable amount of knowledge out there already with the Audi engines. They're not what I want out of an Ultima but I can certainly see the appeal as they make a lovely road/track package. As Clive says, 400ish hp, 900kg + high revving, likely to be reliable, very good value. Got to be appealing if you have the know how or know someone that does?
is the value that great?? i have my doubts by the time youve done all the bits you need to get it to work in the Ultima, just a thought. Im looking at all the costings at the moment and the purchase of the base engine is only a small part of it all.k wright said:
Remeber to ask the racers what they think of 60's American technology on track. The last time I checked the Corvettes had significant handicaps to make sure they remained on the same lap as the other more modern cars.
To each his own, be aware that fitting a different motor will require a great deal of work.
On A price by price comparison to get a OLD SBC crate motor to take the riggers of hard track use I would say your looking at £7-8K, but you can get a second hand Stock Audi S4 motor £1K-£3K replace the induction system (A Friend has cast the manifolds and makes a lovely Kinsler'esk system for about £1200) Buy a DTA Ecu £1200, make a wiring loom (Another friend makes them for about £500 now on his third and has the DTA Map for the said 400bhp) and you've got a Lightweight Motor that's cost you less but should burns less oil, leaks virtually nothing on my garage floor, and Hit 8000rpm which just sounds lovely....To each his own, be aware that fitting a different motor will require a great deal of work.
Ps you can buy the Said 2wd Diesel gearbox new for less than a £1000, and it has 6 forward gears with lovely ratios, 6th is even a good cruising gear with 35mph/1000rpm, and if you lucky enough to buy a Manual S4 Motor you already have the clutch and flywheel and bolts straight up to your new box..... and remind me whats the price of a second hand Porker box + Adapter kit + Clutch kit ?? say Close to £3k if you buy a lower spec G50 with not so good ratios...
So you can if you buy the right Second hand S4 engine, build one for a lot less money than a decent SBC...
And all this praise from me who has a Corvette and a 630bhp LS7 crate motor in his next car..... If it works as a package to price, and the customer is happy then It's still worth doing.... Lets face it 400bhp in 900kgs is still faster than nearly all the Exotics... not all customers want the hassle that Large torque figures bring, some just want a package that works well and is cheap & reliable...
Edited by GTRCLIVE on Wednesday 13th May 14:37
There are a few good audi engines out there. Normally aspirated and turbo'd.
The B5 S4 engine is easily available - £1k to £1.5k. Use a lhd wiring loom and ecu and you have upto 350bhp and 400ft/lb. Put bigger turbos (with manis, injectors) on and you get upto 550bhp 500ft/lb(that spec beat the yellow ultima at vmax)
The B5 RS4 engine will do 480bhp and 500ft/lb unmodified. Modded we have a 650bhp car that is used every day and a 784bhp car. Expensive to buy second hand as they are drop in engines for a lot of cars.
The B7 RS4 engine is a strange one - the FSI engines are flawed as a an FSI has no injectors to clean intake ports so you can easily get a 310bhp engine, but with that cleaned and some work you have a 435bhp engine with 350ft/lb. A nice high revving engine. These are cheap as they are not easy to drop in other cars so not sought after. Use the stock loom and ECUs and you can buy that complete for £1k to £3k.
The C5 RS6 engine is an interesting one. 4.2 litres and twin turbo. These dyno 530+bhp and 570ftlb(limited to safe the box) but these are all autos so they are probably more power than that. Stock ecu and loom can be used.
These are the engines i am experienced with and i think they could really suit the Ultima. Turbo means you probably want to limit the torque so you don't always break traction, But you can easily switch between high torque, high boost, linear power delivery maps.
The nice thing about using the stock ECUs are that you have egt control, lambda control, knock control etc so you get a really nice and easy car to drive.
The B5 S4 engine is easily available - £1k to £1.5k. Use a lhd wiring loom and ecu and you have upto 350bhp and 400ft/lb. Put bigger turbos (with manis, injectors) on and you get upto 550bhp 500ft/lb(that spec beat the yellow ultima at vmax)
The B5 RS4 engine will do 480bhp and 500ft/lb unmodified. Modded we have a 650bhp car that is used every day and a 784bhp car. Expensive to buy second hand as they are drop in engines for a lot of cars.
The B7 RS4 engine is a strange one - the FSI engines are flawed as a an FSI has no injectors to clean intake ports so you can easily get a 310bhp engine, but with that cleaned and some work you have a 435bhp engine with 350ft/lb. A nice high revving engine. These are cheap as they are not easy to drop in other cars so not sought after. Use the stock loom and ECUs and you can buy that complete for £1k to £3k.
The C5 RS6 engine is an interesting one. 4.2 litres and twin turbo. These dyno 530+bhp and 570ftlb(limited to safe the box) but these are all autos so they are probably more power than that. Stock ecu and loom can be used.
These are the engines i am experienced with and i think they could really suit the Ultima. Turbo means you probably want to limit the torque so you don't always break traction, But you can easily switch between high torque, high boost, linear power delivery maps.
The nice thing about using the stock ECUs are that you have egt control, lambda control, knock control etc so you get a really nice and easy car to drive.
Gulf -LS2 said:
you cant run fsi in an Ultima!!! the standard ecus will be a nightmare to run in a Ultima if its even possible
Why can't you run it with an aftermarket ECU? I agree it would take a lot to get the standard ECU to work in an Ultima as all of the other sensors in the car aren't there and the ECU would throw a wobbler but I see no reason why you couldn't use an aftermarket ECU and run it. 
It's an engine, it needs air, fuel and spark. If it runs in an Audi it'll run in an Ultima with the right stimulus. I doubt it needs much money either - engine, ECU and EFI loom.
Spark is delivered by a coil, fuel by injectors, air by throttle body. ECU inputs are throttle pot sensor, crank sensor, air flow and you could probably get away with that but might want cam sensor and exhaust gas sensor to be more accurate, if boosting use a knock sensor. All of these sensors come with the car and are compatible with an ECU such as the Emerald at around £650.
Spark is delivered by a coil, fuel by injectors, air by throttle body. ECU inputs are throttle pot sensor, crank sensor, air flow and you could probably get away with that but might want cam sensor and exhaust gas sensor to be more accurate, if boosting use a knock sensor. All of these sensors come with the car and are compatible with an ECU such as the Emerald at around £650.
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