what Track car?
Discussion
So a friend of mine and I are toying with an idea of getting a track day car to share.
He is a better driver than me I reckon having done a few track days. I haven't done any.
We both agree it should be something newish
We both agree it has to have a roof
We both agree it has to be cheap, reliable and simple to maintain as neither one of us has much technical know how or especially time
We both agree that 0-60 is not as important as being fun to drive.
The only disagreement so far is he thinks we should look to spend at least £10k
whereas I think we can easily halve that. I am more open to adding subsequent modifications to it later than him though. I dont think he wants to get invlved mechanically at all, or even pay someone to do it (well perhaps a one off turbo upgrade or something).
Can you, fine PHers give us a couple of ideas please? Something that fits the requirements but also something that would suit his mond set (more expensive to begin with and maintenance only) and also something appropriate for my mindset (cheaper, but competent initial investment but with room for upgrade later)
Thanks a lot in advance
P.S. neither one of us is a badge snob and would be happy to be seen driving an mx5 if it had a solid roof.
He is a better driver than me I reckon having done a few track days. I haven't done any.
We both agree it should be something newish
We both agree it has to have a roof
We both agree it has to be cheap, reliable and simple to maintain as neither one of us has much technical know how or especially time
We both agree that 0-60 is not as important as being fun to drive.
The only disagreement so far is he thinks we should look to spend at least £10k
whereas I think we can easily halve that. I am more open to adding subsequent modifications to it later than him though. I dont think he wants to get invlved mechanically at all, or even pay someone to do it (well perhaps a one off turbo upgrade or something).
Can you, fine PHers give us a couple of ideas please? Something that fits the requirements but also something that would suit his mond set (more expensive to begin with and maintenance only) and also something appropriate for my mindset (cheaper, but competent initial investment but with room for upgrade later)
Thanks a lot in advance
P.S. neither one of us is a badge snob and would be happy to be seen driving an mx5 if it had a solid roof.
Not to appear to bypass the actual question but if you've both got different ideas on what you'd like as a trackcar then I suggest you really talk it through thoroughly, especially before commiting up to 10K.
Sharing a trackcar can work out really cost effective (I co-own a 205) but there's lots of issues that can be difficult... insurance/storage/MOT/repairs etc. From experience you need to be both fairly on the same wavelength as to what type of car you need and what you want out of it.
Sharing a trackcar can work out really cost effective (I co-own a 205) but there's lots of issues that can be difficult... insurance/storage/MOT/repairs etc. From experience you need to be both fairly on the same wavelength as to what type of car you need and what you want out of it.
I echo what Mr Chips says. I co-own a track car and we often have disagreements about the direction for the car when it comes to spending money. However, what we both completely agreed on was safety since neither of us would want to have an accident and hurt the other whilst they were a passenger. Therefore a rollcage was one of the first investments.
Our BMW E36 328i cost around £6K and a lot of work personally to get to its current spec of full cage, trackday tyres, coilover suspension, upgrade brakes, buckets and harnesses.
If you want a car with less hassle i.e. buy and drive with minimum mods, you want to look at something like an Elise.
Our BMW E36 328i cost around £6K and a lot of work personally to get to its current spec of full cage, trackday tyres, coilover suspension, upgrade brakes, buckets and harnesses.
If you want a car with less hassle i.e. buy and drive with minimum mods, you want to look at something like an Elise.
Edited by swtmerce on Wednesday 13th May 12:54
Thanks for all the replies
I had a look at the ads and this is the list of cars I came up with that could work out of the box-ish. In desirability order but without the price factored in
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
Lotus Elise
Vauxhall VX220
Subaru Impreza
Mitsu Evo
BMW M3
BMW M3 - circa 1995 (though the price seems great I think it could turn into a world of pain that one)
I had a look at the ads and this is the list of cars I came up with that could work out of the box-ish. In desirability order but without the price factored in
Vauxhall VX220 Turbo
Lotus Elise
Vauxhall VX220
Subaru Impreza
Mitsu Evo
BMW M3
BMW M3 - circa 1995 (though the price seems great I think it could turn into a world of pain that one)
I wouldn't bother with an Impreza as a track car (i have one). I have used several of my 4wd cars on track, and they are quick, but i find they are quite uninvolving on a nice wide smooth track and they eat tyres, brakes, fuel ect. due to their heavy body weight. You would have more FUN in a cheap beemer with all the trim thrown out. If you can stretch to an Elise that would be a great choice, your driving skills should come on leaps and bounds too.
If you go for an Elise, apart from harnesses (£300) , sticky tyres (£400) and, IF you can stretch to it, an un-neccessary luxury of Nitron Suspension (ooo errr £1,500, but transforms the car). then you do not need to spend shed loads out of the box and residuals should remain stable unlike a saloon which you have thrown the Demon-Tweeks Catalogue at. In fact, all you NEED to to to an Elise is make sure it is healthy and add Harnesses, personally i NEVER go on track in a car without harnesses. They spread the forces all over your body and minimise any injury.
Whichever car you decide on, I'd strongly recommend getting a roll cage.
Having witnessed a couple of crashes on track days (they do happen, albeit very rarely), with one directly in front of me where the guy went onto the grass, dug in and rolled, a proper cage is non-negotiable IMO. I went for a full weeld-in cage in the Porsche for maximum strength, although you can probably get away with a bolt-in one.
Having witnessed a couple of crashes on track days (they do happen, albeit very rarely), with one directly in front of me where the guy went onto the grass, dug in and rolled, a proper cage is non-negotiable IMO. I went for a full weeld-in cage in the Porsche for maximum strength, although you can probably get away with a bolt-in one.
If its your first venture into track car ownership why spend so much money? I know you probably have a good idea what your after but the car itself doesn't have to that expensive if its just a toy. My advice would be to get something that has already been track prepared, it will save you a fortune. If you buy a car for less than a couple of grand and love tracking you may want to move on to an lotus or similar etc.
Get some experience in a cheaper car 1st and see how you like it.
Case and point is my 205 gti, cost the right side of £2000 and we have just serviced and rolling roaded, other that not touched a bean, just drive to tracks, track and drive home in it.
Get some experience in a cheaper car 1st and see how you like it.
Case and point is my 205 gti, cost the right side of £2000 and we have just serviced and rolling roaded, other that not touched a bean, just drive to tracks, track and drive home in it.
Edited by V8ish on Thursday 14th May 12:53
Call me biased, but you can make your own 'ready to race' MR2 MkII race car for about 4K. Mine was bought from Rogue Motorsport and I paid £6.5K with them having done all the work. Reliable? I should coco!!
If you really enjoy the tracking, then you could enter the racing championship next year perhaps??
Have a look round:
www.luckypracing.com
HTH
If you really enjoy the tracking, then you could enter the racing championship next year perhaps??
Have a look round:
www.luckypracing.com
HTH
Why commit to spending £10k on a track car when you have not even been on a trackday yet?
-You may find the trackday scene is not for you. Start at the cheaper end of the scale just in case.
-why risk £10k on track when you can risk £2k for the same fun?
A 306 gti 6 for £1k, stripped out gets my vote
For real men though, RWD is necessary, an e36 BMW would fit the bill.
-You may find the trackday scene is not for you. Start at the cheaper end of the scale just in case.
-why risk £10k on track when you can risk £2k for the same fun?
A 306 gti 6 for £1k, stripped out gets my vote
For real men though, RWD is necessary, an e36 BMW would fit the bill.
I would not spend £10k on a track car in your position. Like others have said, get something much cheaper.
Spend the extra on semi-slicks/slicks, rollcage, etc. Half the fun for me has been starting off with something cheap and standard and turning it slowly into a half decent track car.
Spend the rest of the money on getting as many track days in as you possibly can.
I have a 318iS which I bought for £800 last year with a year's tax. Been on the track with it nine times so far - something I would not have been able to done had I spanked much more on it.
Buy an e36 318iS/328/M3, start off stock, and decide what direction you want to take it in.
This is mine. Started off stock, then went for bigger wheels and Michelin PS2 rubber. Lost a lot of the interior, chipped, Eisenmann exhaust. Also various visual tat. Next on the list is coilovers, and eventually I'll go for bigger brakes.
Spend the extra on semi-slicks/slicks, rollcage, etc. Half the fun for me has been starting off with something cheap and standard and turning it slowly into a half decent track car.
Spend the rest of the money on getting as many track days in as you possibly can.
I have a 318iS which I bought for £800 last year with a year's tax. Been on the track with it nine times so far - something I would not have been able to done had I spanked much more on it.
Buy an e36 318iS/328/M3, start off stock, and decide what direction you want to take it in.
This is mine. Started off stock, then went for bigger wheels and Michelin PS2 rubber. Lost a lot of the interior, chipped, Eisenmann exhaust. Also various visual tat. Next on the list is coilovers, and eventually I'll go for bigger brakes.
NickXX said:
I would not spend £10k on a track car in your position. Like others have said, get something much cheaper.
Spend the extra on semi-slicks/slicks, rollcage, etc. Half the fun for me has been starting off with something cheap and standard and turning it slowly into a half decent track car.
Spend the rest of the money on getting as many track days in as you possibly can.
I have a 318iS which I bought for £800 last year with a year's tax. Been on the track with it nine times so far - something I would not have been able to done had I spanked much more on it.
Buy an e36 318iS/328/M3, start off stock, and decide what direction you want to take it in.
This is mine. Started off stock, then went for bigger wheels and Michelin PS2 rubber. Lost a lot of the interior, chipped, Eisenmann exhaust. Also various visual tat. Next on the list is coilovers, and eventually I'll go for bigger brakes.
I am liking your workSpend the extra on semi-slicks/slicks, rollcage, etc. Half the fun for me has been starting off with something cheap and standard and turning it slowly into a half decent track car.
Spend the rest of the money on getting as many track days in as you possibly can.
I have a 318iS which I bought for £800 last year with a year's tax. Been on the track with it nine times so far - something I would not have been able to done had I spanked much more on it.
Buy an e36 318iS/328/M3, start off stock, and decide what direction you want to take it in.
This is mine. Started off stock, then went for bigger wheels and Michelin PS2 rubber. Lost a lot of the interior, chipped, Eisenmann exhaust. Also various visual tat. Next on the list is coilovers, and eventually I'll go for bigger brakes.
for £800 you have a nice car there
what I love about the track day hobby is that it's truly multi-budgeted. I know guys who run around in £500 track day sheds because they dont want to risk spanking their £5K daily-driver, but I also know guys who buy £40K worth of 355 challenge car as a disposable track slag rather than use their 430 Scuderia. It's the same decisions being made just with the decimal point in a different place!
Jonny
BaT
Jonny
BaT
Alfa_75_Steve said:
Around £1500 will get you what I use.
I don't want to perpetuate any myths here, but how do you reckon parts and reliability stack up against something like an E30 BMW? Presumably if there's even the tiniest kernel of truth in the Alfa jibes then that'll be exagerated when the car goes from light road use to track day warrior?Chris71 said:
Alfa_75_Steve said:
Around £1500 will get you what I use.
I don't want to perpetuate any myths here, but how do you reckon parts and reliability stack up against something like an E30 BMW? Presumably if there's even the tiniest kernel of truth in the Alfa jibes then that'll be exagerated when the car goes from light road use to track day warrior?Stuff like OEM hoses and trim are still largely available cheaply from a supplier in Belgium, of all places. I got a full set of coolant hoses from them a couple of years ago. Even a radiator was only about £100 delivered.
Body panels are pretty much non existent these days - although you can get GRP and carbon fibre front wings, bonnet and boot lids.
Reliability - not an issue so far - my first track day in it showed up an issue with the cooling system which was solved with a new rad. and hoses.
Also needed plug leads and distributor caps / rotor arms (2 of each) - but they can be bought from any motor factor.
Even a dodgy coil was replaced for under a tenner from a scrappy - as they're a standard issue Bosch coil.
The reliability myths are just that - it's a very tough engine - being based on the classic Alfa all-alloy twin-cam dating back to the early 60s - but it has a TSpark head and variable timing. Chain driven cams, too. They just don't suffer from engine issues.
Gearboxes can suffer from weak synchros and diff bearing wear - I had mine rebuilt a few years ago - there again it was on 128k miles at the time, so I'm not complaining.
A clutch was £220, fully fitted, including a change of gearbox oil and a slave cylinder was done for £80 all-in.
I don't hang around on the track, either (I think you can see that above) - and spend much of my time sideways
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