Discussion
I test drove the new XKR on Monday thanks to the very helpful Swindon Jaguar. I was also given a decent route across some very nice scenic country roads as requested. I know the car is supreme on motorways so no need to check that.
Unusually I was driving an Aston Martin DBS for the day, as hired for me by MrsPits for my birthday. I wanted a back to back comparison and to give the XKR a tougher test. Jag fans probably won't be surprised by my conclusions but for those who prefer minimalist posts, my conclusion is - even if they were close to the same price I'd struggle not to go for the Jag.
Both weigh around the same and both have 500+ bhp so it was an interesting comparison. No surprises to discover that there was nothing in it in a straight line which you have to chalk up as a win for the Jag given the Aston costs £160k new! But the simply felt Jag felt better developed at the end of the day. And rightly so, they probably had a much bigger budget to spend on it. Certainly build quality is even better (and easily the equal of its german competition if not better) and the cabin was a wonderful place to be, even if not quite as avant garde as the Aston. The ride is definitely better. Anyone who thinks the ride quality has suffered in the new XKR can only be comparing it to other jags. Compared to any other car of it's performance the ride is every bit the magic carpet and makes the XKR unique among its peers. It glides the way only a Jaguar can and it's the most relaxing way to go ballistically fast I've ever experienced. I'm quite familiar with my Dad's XJR (latest model) and I was amazed how alike the XKR felt, you can tell they were both made by the same people. But don't think for a moment the Jag is wallowy. If you're used to 911s you'll probably think it's too soft on the test drive but the XKR has subtle qualities that can only be properly appreciated during ownership I suspect. But it's ability to cover ground is not one jot less than the DBS. If anything down a bumpy road it would be faster, with me driving at least.
The Aston under full power was seriously quick, the sort of car that has your passenger reaching for the imaginary brake pedal. It has the huge torque of the DB9 but adds a lovely freer breathing and howling V12 top end to the repertoire. But at full chat you can feel a sort of corkscrewing motion through the car. The DB9 did this too. It's not a big thing but does require corrective steering down a bumpy road with cambers. The jag by comparison just gets on with putting it's eye-widening power down without any fuss or drama. For some that's probably a minus but for a supercar you could and should use every day, I think it's a good thing. Overall, the XKR comes across as an exhaustively developed, honed, polished product.
Unique for a car this fast, the jag is shot through with a relaxed, calm demeanour and it does everything, including going like a bat out of hell seemingly without any effort or mechanical strain. I know of no other car that does this. It encourages a smooth driving style. Again for some that's not a good thing but for an everyday car I think right now, it's the best you can get at any price. I was blown away by it to be honest. It's a heady cocktail of performance, competence, comfort and silky smoothness all wrapped up in an exquisite, uniquely Jaguar feel. It also sounded lovely, very growly, appropriate for a Jaguar. And I really don't like autos but this new box with the paddle shift was outstanding. Very smooth of course but very quick on the gear changes and light years ahead of the paddle shifts on the DB9 I tried. I still love the idea of Jag offering a manual box for their top sportscar and I admire Aston for at least giving you the option. But the new auto does suit the car very well and is in keeping with the calm, soothing nature of the rest of the car.
It's not for everyone but I came away thinking it's very much for me.
In fairness to the Aston it is a thing of utter beauty and an experience I'll never forget. There will always be something very special about a 6 litre V12 at full chat. It was breathtakingly fast and has a great sense of occasion to it while being much cooler and more understated than a Lambo or Ferrari for me at least. An amazing car and if I won the lottery I'd have both.
Unusually I was driving an Aston Martin DBS for the day, as hired for me by MrsPits for my birthday. I wanted a back to back comparison and to give the XKR a tougher test. Jag fans probably won't be surprised by my conclusions but for those who prefer minimalist posts, my conclusion is - even if they were close to the same price I'd struggle not to go for the Jag.
Both weigh around the same and both have 500+ bhp so it was an interesting comparison. No surprises to discover that there was nothing in it in a straight line which you have to chalk up as a win for the Jag given the Aston costs £160k new! But the simply felt Jag felt better developed at the end of the day. And rightly so, they probably had a much bigger budget to spend on it. Certainly build quality is even better (and easily the equal of its german competition if not better) and the cabin was a wonderful place to be, even if not quite as avant garde as the Aston. The ride is definitely better. Anyone who thinks the ride quality has suffered in the new XKR can only be comparing it to other jags. Compared to any other car of it's performance the ride is every bit the magic carpet and makes the XKR unique among its peers. It glides the way only a Jaguar can and it's the most relaxing way to go ballistically fast I've ever experienced. I'm quite familiar with my Dad's XJR (latest model) and I was amazed how alike the XKR felt, you can tell they were both made by the same people. But don't think for a moment the Jag is wallowy. If you're used to 911s you'll probably think it's too soft on the test drive but the XKR has subtle qualities that can only be properly appreciated during ownership I suspect. But it's ability to cover ground is not one jot less than the DBS. If anything down a bumpy road it would be faster, with me driving at least.
The Aston under full power was seriously quick, the sort of car that has your passenger reaching for the imaginary brake pedal. It has the huge torque of the DB9 but adds a lovely freer breathing and howling V12 top end to the repertoire. But at full chat you can feel a sort of corkscrewing motion through the car. The DB9 did this too. It's not a big thing but does require corrective steering down a bumpy road with cambers. The jag by comparison just gets on with putting it's eye-widening power down without any fuss or drama. For some that's probably a minus but for a supercar you could and should use every day, I think it's a good thing. Overall, the XKR comes across as an exhaustively developed, honed, polished product.
Unique for a car this fast, the jag is shot through with a relaxed, calm demeanour and it does everything, including going like a bat out of hell seemingly without any effort or mechanical strain. I know of no other car that does this. It encourages a smooth driving style. Again for some that's not a good thing but for an everyday car I think right now, it's the best you can get at any price. I was blown away by it to be honest. It's a heady cocktail of performance, competence, comfort and silky smoothness all wrapped up in an exquisite, uniquely Jaguar feel. It also sounded lovely, very growly, appropriate for a Jaguar. And I really don't like autos but this new box with the paddle shift was outstanding. Very smooth of course but very quick on the gear changes and light years ahead of the paddle shifts on the DB9 I tried. I still love the idea of Jag offering a manual box for their top sportscar and I admire Aston for at least giving you the option. But the new auto does suit the car very well and is in keeping with the calm, soothing nature of the rest of the car.
It's not for everyone but I came away thinking it's very much for me.
In fairness to the Aston it is a thing of utter beauty and an experience I'll never forget. There will always be something very special about a 6 litre V12 at full chat. It was breathtakingly fast and has a great sense of occasion to it while being much cooler and more understated than a Lambo or Ferrari for me at least. An amazing car and if I won the lottery I'd have both.
Edited by The Pits on Wednesday 13th May 11:31
wonderful post Read on another forum paramount performance dyno'd an XKR at over the quoted 500 hp, think it was about 525. They seem to suggest there is easy further potential.
Wonder what it would be like with a modest increase say upto 550 - 560
My favourite two cars also, Interesting to see used DBS prices, depreciation on early ones is nearlly the price of an XKR, used DBS's are new DB9 prices wil be sub 100k soon.
However the XFR is taking all the press plaudits, the times from an american road test quoted in an XFR post are almost the same as a DBS.
SCW
Wonder what it would be like with a modest increase say upto 550 - 560
My favourite two cars also, Interesting to see used DBS prices, depreciation on early ones is nearlly the price of an XKR, used DBS's are new DB9 prices wil be sub 100k soon.
However the XFR is taking all the press plaudits, the times from an american road test quoted in an XFR post are almost the same as a DBS.
SCW
SeanCW said:
Read on another forum paramount performance dyno'd an XKR at over the quoted 500 hp, think it was about 525. They seem to suggest there is easy further potential.
Counld be that they are guessing lower drive train and tyre losses than Jaguar, it's also likely that Jaguar measured at the shaft rather than at the wheels and the then subtract some fudge factor and then recalculate to match DIN requirements.It is also possible that the Jaguar figure is conservative.
SeanCW said:
Wonder what it would be like with a modest increase say upto 550 - 560
SCW
Wait till NormanD decides to put one in his XKR, replaces the blower with a twin screw unit...etc. SCW
Interesting post, thanks.
Bear in mind Aston and Jaguar have always compared and contrasted in this manner for broadly equivalent cars. In the mid 60's a DB6 was around £4k while an E-Type was around £2k. If you want the particular character and exclusivity of the Aston, you buy an Aston.
Regarding the XKR 5.0 it is without doubt one of the greatest and most beautiful GT Sports cars of all time, and the minute attention to detail which has gone into its production shows. However, I have one gripe which would spoil it for me, and that is the seats. The XFR has good seats. My old S-Type Sport has sublime seats, but the XKR has seats which are too small, not sufficiently supportive, too hard and set too high. Not for love or money can I get them sufficiently low that I feel comfortable in the car, and I am afraid that would destroy the ownership experience for me. Why do they do this? They must have a reason, but I struggle to see it.
The Aston by contrast has wonderful seats. To be even handed, standard Porsche seats are the total pits, and I cannot sit in a 911 equipped with full electric seats of any sort. I am about 6'3" by the way.
By the way, Sean, what do you want to increase the power for? Are you going for a Land Speed Record? It's about pleasure, not speed. On the other hand, I could see the benefit of getting a bit more response from the exhaust.
Bear in mind Aston and Jaguar have always compared and contrasted in this manner for broadly equivalent cars. In the mid 60's a DB6 was around £4k while an E-Type was around £2k. If you want the particular character and exclusivity of the Aston, you buy an Aston.
Regarding the XKR 5.0 it is without doubt one of the greatest and most beautiful GT Sports cars of all time, and the minute attention to detail which has gone into its production shows. However, I have one gripe which would spoil it for me, and that is the seats. The XFR has good seats. My old S-Type Sport has sublime seats, but the XKR has seats which are too small, not sufficiently supportive, too hard and set too high. Not for love or money can I get them sufficiently low that I feel comfortable in the car, and I am afraid that would destroy the ownership experience for me. Why do they do this? They must have a reason, but I struggle to see it.
The Aston by contrast has wonderful seats. To be even handed, standard Porsche seats are the total pits, and I cannot sit in a 911 equipped with full electric seats of any sort. I am about 6'3" by the way.
By the way, Sean, what do you want to increase the power for? Are you going for a Land Speed Record? It's about pleasure, not speed. On the other hand, I could see the benefit of getting a bit more response from the exhaust.
Edited by cardigankid on Tuesday 16th June 08:10
I personally would not do anything to the 5.0 XKR, if I had one at the moment.
I made the comment in relation to how close the XKR could be to the DBS, but in reality it is the DB9 that the XKR challenges in terms of performance and GT qualities.
Interms of badge appeal the aston will always have it, but a bet a Jaguar would be better to live with. All the people I know that have had Astons were led down by the ownership experience. One even essentialy sent back a DB9 volante, but got a Vanquish instead.
I agree about seats, I saw the initial XFR & XKR article in EVO magazine and at first glance thought that the XFR seats were in the XKR. Why does the flagship get the inferior interior, even down to colours.
That should be on the Jag list if there are further facelifts.
SCW
I made the comment in relation to how close the XKR could be to the DBS, but in reality it is the DB9 that the XKR challenges in terms of performance and GT qualities.
Interms of badge appeal the aston will always have it, but a bet a Jaguar would be better to live with. All the people I know that have had Astons were led down by the ownership experience. One even essentialy sent back a DB9 volante, but got a Vanquish instead.
I agree about seats, I saw the initial XFR & XKR article in EVO magazine and at first glance thought that the XFR seats were in the XKR. Why does the flagship get the inferior interior, even down to colours.
That should be on the Jag list if there are further facelifts.
SCW
I have been whining to them for about three years without any noticeable effect. I had thought that with the present facelift (which looks so good from every other point of view) they would do something, but, no. What they have done is put nice leather everywhere and use the rising circular gear selector, which is great, but the seats are MGBGT circa '76.
While I'd love Jag to offer aston style carbon buckets with manual adjustment (to save the weight of all those electric motors) along with a manual gearbox, I have to say I had no issue with the seats. I'm guessing the XFR seats won't fit in the narrower XK. The XK's seats are more comfort than performance orientated but they have such a huge range of electric adjustment I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a setting you liked after a good fiddle. Along with the very effective cooling facility (did you try that?) they also offer electrically adjustable side bolsters which grip you harder round the torso for more spirited cornering.
As for the tuning argument, I'd be tempted to tune a 4.2 supercharged car but the 5.0 really does fly as standard. However I can see the appeal of a 550+ version as you then go from a car which can keep up with a DBS to a car that can whistle past a DBS!
As for the tuning argument, I'd be tempted to tune a 4.2 supercharged car but the 5.0 really does fly as standard. However I can see the appeal of a 550+ version as you then go from a car which can keep up with a DBS to a car that can whistle past a DBS!
They are too high, I guess because of the box of tricks underneath (which I don't want anyway) and I find them neither supportive nor comfortable. On long trips I need a seat which is supportive and shaped, or I end up at the other end or even during the journey with serious back issues. I don't want heated ventilated seats or any of their bloody lumbar widgets. I just want a proper high performance seat, and I am f
ked if I will buy a £72k GT car which is going to put me in manipulation.
The seats in my 06 S Type Sport are perfect, so it's not as if Jaguar don't know how to do it.
This reminds me of the old XK where you had to pay extra for Recaros (and there is a premium on these older cars which have the Recaros fitted) or be prepared to use the pull down handle above the door as you went round corners. In a high performance car like this it is completely barmy.
To be fair standard Porsche seats are exactly the same. Effing useless. The leather trimmed shell seats in a 997 GT3 are by contrast superb.
ked if I will buy a £72k GT car which is going to put me in manipulation. The seats in my 06 S Type Sport are perfect, so it's not as if Jaguar don't know how to do it.
This reminds me of the old XK where you had to pay extra for Recaros (and there is a premium on these older cars which have the Recaros fitted) or be prepared to use the pull down handle above the door as you went round corners. In a high performance car like this it is completely barmy.
To be fair standard Porsche seats are exactly the same. Effing useless. The leather trimmed shell seats in a 997 GT3 are by contrast superb.
Tuscan is much more agile than either and is fantastic value for money but in truth would have to be worked hard to keep up with either the jag or DBS on a fast road. At it's peak the acceleration isn't a million miles away but the other two make going fast very easy and effortless. In some ways the Aston has more in common in terms of it's more avant garde interior and more handmade feel. The jag feels more mass produced which is widely considered to be a good thing these days. The jag is the best everyday car, Aston is the most special and the tvr is the most 'alive'. It's responses are razor sharp and there's no denying some of the advantages 1100kg brings.
I wouldn't have swapped my tvr for a 4.2 xkr but the new one is so exciting and so competent I could be tempted but have no plans to change just now. I simply don't need an everyday car at the moment but if I did I'd have an xkr. I think it's the best car you could use every day on the market. I wouldn't worry about leaving it parked like I would a DBS, for me it's much better looking and nicer to drive but just as well made and dependable as a 911, it's comfortable and very fast, serene on motorways and engaging in the twisties. It really would be a joy to own.
I wouldn't have swapped my tvr for a 4.2 xkr but the new one is so exciting and so competent I could be tempted but have no plans to change just now. I simply don't need an everyday car at the moment but if I did I'd have an xkr. I think it's the best car you could use every day on the market. I wouldn't worry about leaving it parked like I would a DBS, for me it's much better looking and nicer to drive but just as well made and dependable as a 911, it's comfortable and very fast, serene on motorways and engaging in the twisties. It really would be a joy to own.
Edited by The Pits on Friday 19th June 23:56
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