Wedge Air Filters
Discussion
Guys, ive been looking into general induction issues that seem to hinder modified rover V8's. After recieving some good infomation from Tim Lamont, and spending a few hours examining the understde of a GT Racer it suddenly occured to me that there must be a better position for the standard 400SE air filter and, inside the wedge nosecone there is a lot of un-used space that could be utilised for additional cooling.
Im currently looking into ducting cold air into the front disks for when the wedge is back on the road.
One question for the list ... has anyone ever seen the new cyclone air filters developed by Lotus for the 340R's ?
Im wondering about the possible gains if any, using an air filter of this type?
I see Jetex and K & N are selling so called "Cold Air Induction Kits" (do a google search on uk and cold air induction). These go for £75 - 150 ish and include ducting plus a nice coloured flaired trumpetfor the intake.
Im currently looking into ducting cold air into the front disks for when the wedge is back on the road.
One question for the list ... has anyone ever seen the new cyclone air filters developed by Lotus for the 340R's ?
Im wondering about the possible gains if any, using an air filter of this type?
I see Jetex and K & N are selling so called "Cold Air Induction Kits" (do a google search on uk and cold air induction). These go for £75 - 150 ish and include ducting plus a nice coloured flaired trumpetfor the intake.
Actually Jason unless you are prepared to do some major mods the current air filter position is pretty good. Ducting air from the front is a real problem because the rad is in the way and through the headlamp pods is difficult to do. Richard Thorpe did an air scoop at the front under the spoiler but with the amount of water on the roads today, it is a recipe for hydraulicing the engine big time.
As for more power... Not really true as you recover the power you loose. I take in air from the back of the bonnet at the bottom of the windscreen but my lightweight unit has a 4 inch gap. Normal bonnets don't.
It is worth measuring what the air temp actually is to see if you have a problem before spending a lot of effort chasing not much at all.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
As for more power... Not really true as you recover the power you loose. I take in air from the back of the bonnet at the bottom of the windscreen but my lightweight unit has a 4 inch gap. Normal bonnets don't.
It is worth measuring what the air temp actually is to see if you have a problem before spending a lot of effort chasing not much at all.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Hmm interesting Steve, I have a 2"gap at the rear of my bonnet.
I hear what your saying as regards to the potential of buggering the engine, I was also thinking of potentially locating an airbox high in the nosecone. I can get a piece of 3"pipe between the Radiator on the n/s/f. where currently I have rubber flaps (oer!)
That will mean I ill have to dive pretty deep in water before it gets close to the proposed location of teh intake (I'll Play)
STill Intend to duct cold air to the front Brakes though.
Jason
I hear what your saying as regards to the potential of buggering the engine, I was also thinking of potentially locating an airbox high in the nosecone. I can get a piece of 3"pipe between the Radiator on the n/s/f. where currently I have rubber flaps (oer!)
That will mean I ill have to dive pretty deep in water before it gets close to the proposed location of teh intake (I'll Play)
STill Intend to duct cold air to the front Brakes though.
Jason
Yes but the heat from the rad heats up the incoming air so there is no real advantage. There is also the issue of how cold the air flow actually is in the nose cone and how much space there is. I looked at it and came to the conclusion that there was no real advantage compared to where it was. The long pipe can also cause probs for the air flow as well. As for hydraulic prob, the Griff and Chimaera have the air intake high up in the nose cone and they can suffer badly as well.
Steve
Steve
I'm in the process of making and fitting a cold air intake box to my 350 as the current cone filter just takes in air from anywhere and I'm getting air temps of up to 50° if you just let the engine idle in traffic. Providing you make the box big enough you won't effect the tuning of the engine and there is room to run a pair of 2.5" pipes down past the LHS of the rad and pick up directly from the spoiler/ air entry, so I'll hopefully get a good ram of cold air at speed.
Addmittedly once you open the taps the air intake temp drops pretty rapidly but it does still take time and every little helps.
Matt
Addmittedly once you open the taps the air intake temp drops pretty rapidly but it does still take time and every little helps.
Matt
If the incoming air is only at 50 deg then you may not find any advantage anyway. Whan I hit this problem with the 520 I was recording air temps of 80-90 deg caused by a 30 deg ambient temp and the fact that the filter was directly onto the plenum (no air flow meter) and taking heated air from the exhausts. If you look at the mapping (which I can on the DTA) it does very little with air temp below 50 degrees. AT 80-90 degrees the DTA goes into engine preservation mode and I lost about 80 bhp. That is worth doing something about. I now bring in the air from below the windscreen using two 80 mm diameter pipes.
I have heard a lot of claims for better this and that but if you are only seeing 50 deg and that is in traffic then is it really worth all the time and effort? As for RAM effect... Tried it and made no difference. Again I would not like to have an air intake in the spoiler because of thr risk of hydraulicing the engine.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
I have heard a lot of claims for better this and that but if you are only seeing 50 deg and that is in traffic then is it really worth all the time and effort? As for RAM effect... Tried it and made no difference. Again I would not like to have an air intake in the spoiler because of thr risk of hydraulicing the engine.
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Hang on a minute Steve, for every 1°C increase in engine air inlet temp you'll lose about 0.2% in power and also increase the likehood of detonation. So If you can gaurentee an engine inlet temp of 25° as opposed to 50° that'lll give me a 13Bhp advantage on my 273Bhp, which is worthwhile I'd say. Also I've made my airbox with a drain at the bottom in any case and two intakes so I'd be very surprised if I manage to hydraulic the engine, but you're right about the ram effect I just wanted a supply of ambient air rather picking up from the engine bay.
Matt
PS Are you coming along to the N'pton Club meeting this month?
Matt
PS Are you coming along to the N'pton Club meeting this month?
If you can get the air inside the plenum down to 25 degress when the plenum and associated metal work is way above it, I think you will probably need some kind of cooler. The problem is that the air heats up and so while having cold air going in is always an advantage, the air temp of the air is also determined by the temp of the engine and in particular how hot the metal work like the plenum is and so on. That is why you can't assume that 25 degree air going in is actually going to be 25 degrees in the plenum. My temp sensor is inside the throttle body and is typically 40-50 degrees when the engine is running in cold weather. The air coming in may be a lot colder but it soons heat up.
In general the colder the air the better but in practice the hot engine makes it very hard to achieve the temp differential that gives some power.
I was also discussing this down at Power engineering where they reckon testing on a cold morning compared with a warm afternoon makes only 3 or 4 bhp difference with a 300+ bhp engine.
As for hydraulicing... Griffs and Chimaeras have huge air slots to draing away water but still are prevalent to problems in only a couple of inches. Drain holes won't make any real difference.
As for Northants... Don't know. I am in a bit of panic with the 520 and work so don't know if I'll have the time.
Steve
In general the colder the air the better but in practice the hot engine makes it very hard to achieve the temp differential that gives some power.
I was also discussing this down at Power engineering where they reckon testing on a cold morning compared with a warm afternoon makes only 3 or 4 bhp difference with a 300+ bhp engine.
As for hydraulicing... Griffs and Chimaeras have huge air slots to draing away water but still are prevalent to problems in only a couple of inches. Drain holes won't make any real difference.
As for Northants... Don't know. I am in a bit of panic with the 520 and work so don't know if I'll have the time.
Steve
Looking for a new air filter to replace my slightly grubby one in my 450 SE. The Bible indicates an ITG or K&N unit when uprating to a larger air flow meter. I am not replacing the air flow meter, but would like to replace the original equipment with a K&N unit. Anyone know what K&N filter number it is or perhaps a sizing website I can reference?
Thanks
Shawn
450 SE
Thanks
Shawn
450 SE
I fitted a tapered one from Rimmerbros.co.uk on my 350i. They list a larger diameter for hotwire (3.9)airflow meters (I guess the 450 uses the same) part no: RA1060.
another site I found below
www.filterpower.com/
Steve (V8S)
another site I found below
www.filterpower.com/
Steve (V8S)
Got a K&N on my 390; recently washed and refitted it and noticed that it doesn't seal very well at the ends against TVRs bits-of-plate mounting, so I ran a bead of silicon sealant round just to stop those few particles that might get drawn in through the gaps. God I'm a sad git. ;-)
However, I have contemplated remote filter/ intake ducting as well, and the nosecone does seem the best site. Steve's remarks regarding plenum temp suggest that maybe a better fix would be to duct air over the plenum to cool it down?
Cat + pigeons =
;-)
Ian
However, I have contemplated remote filter/ intake ducting as well, and the nosecone does seem the best site. Steve's remarks regarding plenum temp suggest that maybe a better fix would be to duct air over the plenum to cool it down?
Cat + pigeons =
;-)
Ian
quote:
Steve's remarks regarding plenum temp suggest that maybe a better fix would be to duct air over the plenum to cool it down?
I've fitted carbon trumpets from ACT and am currently thinking about a plenum as well, for this very reason... Heat.
Ever put your hand on top of the plenum after a 30min run ??. V.V. Hot. Do the same on a car with a carbon item and there's a huge difference. Carbon fibre dissipates heat very efficiently, while not having any capacity to 'soak' it up.
quote:
I've fitted carbon trumpets from ACT and am currently thinking about a plenum as well, for this very reason... Heat.
Ever put your hand on top of the plenum after a 30min run ??. V.V. Hot. Do the same on a car with a carbon item and there's a huge difference. Carbon fibre dissipates heat very efficiently, while not having any capacity to 'soak' it up.
I have to say that the 520 suffered more with a heat problem with the carbon fibre plenum than with the ally triple it has now. Never really found out why.
I have to say that the 520 suffered more with a heat problem with the carbon fibre plenum than with the ally triple it has now. Never really found out why.
I don't understand how the carbon plenum would suffer from heat problems more than alloy, its plastic and doesn't get as hot we have measured a lower induction temp with the carbon plenums( be it a small amount).
I assume that your huge tripple is acting as a heat sink for the engine, not an ideal solution but in the tight 390 engine bay , with an unusual amount of power it is probably un-avoidable.
On road cars we have in some cases eliminated pinking by fitting carbon induction.
Tim
quote:
Jason ditch the 400
Buy a Tuscan racer and go road racing
Oh how I would love to !
Most racing plans for this year have been scuppered. I had planned to get a Tuscan racer, start sprinting etc, but due to a rather sudden collapse of the UK Telecomms industry, Targets havnt been hit, bonus's havnt been paid, and subsequently I cannot afford to spend the money at present
Having said that, Im keeping the 400, its just been serviced, and has been put away in storage.
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