Changing Camshaft - local garage or specialist?

[Growlin8]

Griff 500 just been serviced and told by TVR Specialist I need to replace the cam at a cost of £1,700+vat. I could get a cam kit for £395 from V8 Developments and get local garage to fit for far less. What oe you guys think do I need to let the "specialist" do it or is it simple enough for my local garage? I'm no mechanic so no option to do it myself. I'm based near Banbury so anyone suggest a decent garage to do the work?
Thanks for any advice!

[Bodmin]

I think you really need to clarify on your post what exactly is being replaced for that money.

If they are just changing the camshaft & followers then I would suggest the price is way too high.

However if the quote is for fitting the complete cam kit (does this include a vernier gear?) they will need to remove both cylinder heads, strip down,renew the valve springs, reassemble & refit the heads.

The differance between the two methods could be at least 10hrs....mind you at least 3hrs will be taken up trying to get the bd crank pulley off

There have been quite a few discussions on PH about whether the springs should be changed or not but there is a risk that the cam manufacturer may refuse a warranty claim if they discover part of the supplied kit was not used.

Most garages are perfectly capable of carrying out the camshaft renwal & associated work required, after all the Rover V8 engine has been around since the 60's

Bodders

[GreenV8S]

Bodmin said:

However if the quote is for fitting the complete cam kit (does this include a vernier gear?) they will need to remove both cylinder heads, strip down,renew the valve springs, reassemble & refit the heads.

They would only need to do that if they were rebuilding the heads. Maybe that needs doing, but it's not an integral part of a cam change. The price you're quoting is roughly double what I'd expect for a simple cam change, so presumably they expecting to do more than that. I suggest you need to find out exactly what it is they're proposing to do.

[Bodmin]

Yes, but most of the cam kits I have seen i.e Kent, Piper etc come with their own set of valve springs which the manufacturer will say are designed specifically for use with their camshaft & could use this as an excuse not to honour a claim.

Unless you know otherwise, I am not aware on these engines how you can change the valve springs with the heads in situ?

Bodders

[Boosted LS1]

^I've never done it but some folk use compressed air in the cylinders via the plug holes to keep the valves closed while they remove the springs. A special tool is used to compress the spring whilst releasing the collets.

[2Munkys]

The springs can be removed with the heads in situ. I used some old rocker-shaft tower bolts and modified a ball splitter to compress the spring. A large washer under the bolt head will provide the point which the crotch of the splitter will act about with the tip of the fork depressing the spring retainer. Stop the valves dropping through by having the appropriate piston at TDC. It's a bit of a fiddle but that's all; it's a method used by many.

[griffdude]

Growlin8 said:

I'm based near Banbury so anyone suggest a decent garage to do the work?
Thanks for any advice!

Guglielmi Motorsport in Daventry, 16 miles up the A361. TVR specialist, have been looking after my Griff for 6 years. Highly recommended in the south Northants area.
TVR Power isn't too far either.

[lockhart flawse]

Like the OP I am no mechanic and I got my standard cam replaced with another standard cam, followers and timing chain plus annual service and MOT for £1203.45 at a local garage (with very good TVR knowledge). Total for all parts including oil and some service items £561. It's my understanding that replacing the cam on an RV8 is not an especially complicated job and so should be easily within the capabilities of a decent local mechanic.

L.F.

[Bodmin]

2Munkys said:

The springs can be removed with the heads in situ. I used some old rocker-shaft tower bolts and modified a ball splitter to compress the spring. A large washer under the bolt head will provide the point which the crotch of the splitter will act about with the tip of the fork depressing the spring retainer. Stop the valves dropping through by having the appropriate piston at TDC. It's a bit of a fiddle but that's all; it's a method used by many.

amazing the work around solutions some people come up with.

I must admit I have never heard of this method or the compressed air trick being used specifically on the Rover V8.

I guess you need the patience of a saint & the dexterity of a brain surgeon

Bodders

[spend]

There have just been some stories of cams not being dialed in correctly (even by stalwart pro's that is..).

If you are getting V8D cam just take it over there and let them do it, their service is likely better than you will get locally?

[bigdods]

Close to Banbury Topcats or str8six come to mind. Never used str8six but lots of good reviews for them on PH. I have used Topcats for a few years and can recommend them as reasonably priced and very fair with their charges.

But £1700 sounds like a heck of a lot more work I was thinking about half that just for a cam change.

[bigdods]

If you are in banbury either Topcats or str8six. I've used topcats for a few years and warrens prices are good, workmanship 1st class you will get the right job for the right price. Never used str8six but lots of people on PH rave about them so worth a call I would say.

£1700 sounds like a lot more than just a simple cam change, I would think it should be about half that.....

Oh and if you are near banbury you might be interested in this event that I am organising...

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...

[JR]

Growlin8 said:

Griff 500 just been serviced and told by TVR Specialist I need to replace the cam at a cost of £1,700+vat. I could get a cam kit for £395 from V8 Developments and get local garage to fit for far less. What oe you guys think do I need to let the "specialist" do it or is it simple enough for my local garage? I'm no mechanic so no option to do it myself. I'm based near Banbury so anyone suggest a decent garage to do the work?
Thanks for any advice!

Most people quote around a grand to remove and replace the engine so if you think that the engine needs to be replaced it's £1,000 + £400 for the parts and £300 for labour to do the engine work. My guess is that the quote is more related to doing the job this way rather than trying to rip you off.

[marz92]

Simple mate, talk to Neil Garner at Kemble Glos, he's just done mine, like you I brought the shaft from V8 Developments and Neil and the gang fitted it -as you would expect from Neil, superb job. 01666 577449

[Growlin8]

Thanks for all the replies, it's given me plenty of options. For info.. the £1,700 is classed an "upgrade" comprises; sports cam, followers, vernier chain set, and eprom chip, plus gaskets etc... and 12hrs labour. As far as I know engine stays in and heads stay on, but I am going in for a chat on Saturday and maybe it is more than what I'm looking for.
Where do you get a "standard" TVR cam from? I was also thinking of Stealth from V8D or what about TVRPowers Cam or the Piper from RPI Engineering - I'm looking for good mid-range and not too wild? It is also a 75,000 mile engine so will a new cam put more stress on the bottom end (non-technical I know!) or will that all be down to my right foot

I also need somewhere that can do it within a few weeks as I off to LeMans, so will phone around based on posts above. Cheers

[marz92]

TVR cam from? I was also thinking of Stealth from V8D

Mine was a Stealth from V8 Developments. Boy has she got some 'grunt' now!!

[GreenV8S]

Bodmin said:

Unless you know otherwise, I am not aware on these engines how you can change the valve springs with the heads in situ?

It's quite easy. If you have an air line you can use compressed air to hold the valves up - I don't, so I used the 'rope trick' (which is dead easy to do but takes longer). Then you use an external valve spring compressor to release the spring.

I would guess that a substantial portion of that £1700 is for the new ECU chip.

Edited by GreenV8S on Thursday 14th May 22:21

[Growlin8]

Just to finish this off - went back to "specialist" today and the £1700 was just to fit cam kit (cam, followers, chain, + gaskets, oil etc..) no Eprom, and engine stays in and heads on. Plus this was to come after just doing a £600 service (changing oil twice!). After declining to book it in the price starting falling and ended at £1350+VAT, but my confidence (amongst other things) was dented so I took the car home.

I was also told the worn cam was diagnosed based on compressio tests - is that right?

From recommendations from other posts I have taken the car elsewhere and have a quote for closer to £1K. So if you are based in the Midlands and think you have got the obvious choice for where to take your car, my advice would be shop around first!

[sunwharf]

I had my cam and followers replaced (4.3 Griff) with a Piper 285 plus a service, pads, brake discs and front cover mods. for less than that inc vat. It was done by a well respected Indy.

Certainly sounds OTT to me.

Nick

[Pupp]

GreenV8S said:

Bodmin said:

Unless you know otherwise, I am not aware on these engines how you can change the valve springs with the heads in situ?

It's quite easy. If you have an air line you can use compressed air to hold the valves up - I don't, so I used the 'rope trick' (which is dead easy to do but takes longer). Then you use an external valve spring compressor to release the spring.

I would guess that a substantial portion of that £1700 is for the new ECU chip.

Edited by GreenV8S on Thursday 14th May 22:21

It's dead easy in terms of method with the airline and adaptor but on a Griff/Chim, access to the rear valves is very tight ('though just doable). Not sure it's good for the springs given the amount they have to be compressed to jiggle stuff out.