Some are more equal than others...?

[Shay HTFC]

In the other Milton Keynes A&E thread, some comments suggested that druggies should be bottom of the pile when it comes to getting treatment.

scotal said:

skagheads should be bottom of the pile for treatment.

I was called a dick for suggesting that if needing treatment as the result of committing an illegal act (taking drugs) puts you to the back of the list, then surely drivers who are speeding should be put to the back of the list too. Both are illegal acts in the eye of the law.

I love to speed and ride my motorcycle well past the limit etc, but at the same time I am not so narrow minded as to not see the complete hypocrisy that people can spew out when faced with this question.

So why should a person who requires treatment as a result of abusing drugs be sent to the back of the queue when a person who has been in a serious crash as a result of speeding not be subject to the same policies? Should someone speeding at 150mph down the motorway who crashes be sent to the back of the queue too?

Its a serious point to raise, but I know some people will still reply with "because drugs are bad, speeding etc is okay", but not ask the question as to why it is they think that.

[Sideways Tim]

Yup, self inflicted injuries - back of the queue. Same with people playing football, falling off bikes, DIY or anything else. That's how my triage system would work.

[Nolar Dog]

I firmly believe everyone should have equal access to required treatment.

Shame it doesn't always happen though.

[Shay HTFC]

I've just seen the other topic about this

edit: and just read it to see it turned into some random ramble of stuff... typical PH

Edited by Shay HTFC on Friday 15th May 14:22

[Chris71]

Sideways Tim said:

Yup, self inflicted injuries - back of the queue. Same with people playing football, falling off bikes, DIY or anything else. That's how my triage system would work.

So who would get to the front of the queue then? Obviously road accidents would be out because it was about as self inflicted as falling off a bike - in fact, some instances it may well be falling off a bike. Someone's been stabbed? It was their fault for walking in a dodgy area at night. Someone's had a heart attack? That's a conscious decision to eat greasey food and a failure to excercise... It goes on.

Virtually everything has a potential cause or rememedy.

I think it should be simply those in the greatest need are seen first, unless they're a threat to staff or other patients, in which case they can be refused treatment.

[maxrider]

Sideways Tim said:

Yup, self inflicted injuries - back of the queue. Same with people playing football, falling off bikes, DIY or anything else. That's how my triage system would work.

It wouldn't be worth anybody getting out of bed.
Why not just kill us all now?

[G_T]

Yes but it's not a balanced moral argument is it? A few things spring to mind;

• Heroin users are criminals and far more likely to be of little or no value to society.
• When someone is scraped off the road you cannot usual prove beyond doubt that they were to blame (with sufficient proof to hand out a potential death sentence).
• DIY is unavoidable for most people. As is carelessness. Should you be put to the queue for being human?

You also have the far larger moral issue of authority. YOU nor I nor ANYBODY has the moral authority to say who lives and who dies. Doctors, Nurses and paramedics conduct triage on the basis on injury and potential benefits of treatment. Not on other factors. They do not, or should not, use their own personal beliefs before treating people. To do so would be immoral in itself.

Edited by G_T on Friday 15th May 15:48

[Nobody You Know]

Shay HTFC said:

I've just seen the other topic about this

edit: and just read it to see it turned into some random ramble of stuff... typical PH

Edited by Shay HTFC on Friday 15th May 14:22

This one?

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Did raise some heated debate.

[elster]

G_T said:

*Heroine users are criminals and far more likely to be of little or no value to society.

I would love to be a Heroine user.

[AlpineWhite]

Sideways Tim said:

Yup, self inflicted injuries - back of the queue. Same with people playing football, falling off bikes, DIY or anything else. That's how my triage system would work.

Ok then, how about a heart attack brought about through obesity?

Or (and this will light the touchpaper, I'm sure) - throat cancer brought about through smoking?

Both arguably self-inflicted.

[Shay HTFC]

I saw this one

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

The one you posted is an interesting read!

[Murray993]

Shay HTFC said:

I love to speed and ride my motorcycle well past the limit speeding at 150mph down the motorway.

Its a serious point to raise because drugs and speeding is okay, but not ask the question as to why.

A typical Sun edit there

[voyds9]

Treatment on your usefulness to society.

Drugged up, non-working, breeding machine will get treatment sometime at the end of the century.

Ectasy overdose from a worker seen quicker.

Man fall off ladder at work seen first.

[ben_reza]

elster said:

G_T said:

*Heroine users are criminals and far more likely to be of little or no value to society.

I would love to be a Heroine user.

Zena Warrior Princess for me please.

[Sideways Tim]

I didn't say my system was a good one, but in my mind, where I rule the world, there would be no scuzzy knobheads, abusing the people who are trying to care for them. If a patient arrived who had fallen off a ladder at work, straight in. If a patient arrived who had broken their leg whilst trying to jump a car and filming himself for youtube, then he'd be left to ponder his actions for a while.

There's no way I could even begin to fathom how doctors, nurses etc can possibly do the job they do in whatever you might call a 'fair' way. I'm glad they do though.

[G_T]

ben_reza said:

elster said:

G_T said:

*Heroine users are criminals and far more likely to be of little or no value to society.

I would love to be a Heroine user.

Zena Warrior Princess for me please.

bds.

ETA: I'm having a bad day for corrections making me look even more stupid actually...

Edited by G_T on Friday 15th May 15:48

[interloper]

Sideways Tim said:

I didn't say my system was a good one, but in my mind, where I rule the world, there would be no scuzzy knobheads, abusing the people who are trying to care for them. If a patient arrived who had fallen off a ladder at work, straight in. If a patient arrived who had broken their leg whilst trying to jump a car and filming himself for youtube, then he'd be left to ponder his actions for a while.

There's no way I could even begin to fathom how doctors, nurses etc can possibly do the job they do in whatever you might call a 'fair' way. I'm glad they do though.

Well thank goodness we have triage instead, is all I can say.

Under your system... The injured party comes into casualty and has to wait whilst an investigation is carried out. This to determine how culpable they are for their own injuries before a suitable place in the que can be established. That's going to slow everything to a crawl, A+E over flowing with dead bodies!

Good old Triage... Just figure out who is most at risk of keeling over dead from their issues and treat accordingly.

Edited by interloper on Friday 15th May 16:06

[Holst]

interloper said:

Good old Triage... Just figure out who is most at risk of dyeing from their issues and treat accordingly.

Surely anybody who was injured when dyeing would be treated first as this would be a work related injury.

When Alexia from the salon gets bleach in her eye she would be treated first.

Too slow on the edit interloper :P

Edited by Holst on Friday 15th May 16:11

[interloper]

Holst said:

interloper said:

Good old Triage... Just figure out who is most at risk of dyeing from their issues and treat accordingly.

Surely anybody who was injured when dyeing would be treated first as this would be a work related injury.

When Alexia from the salon gets bleach in her eye she would be treated first.

Too slow on the edit interloper :P

Edited by Holst on Friday 15th May 16:11

Darn it!

[Not-All-Here]

Who ever has the biggest pool of blood around them gets seen first.

Thats how it should work.

I walked into a triage unit with a grade 3 separated AC joint and got treated within 10 minutes, a woman with her foot sliced to buggery and bleeding everywhere had been there for an hour apparently!!

Explain how i was 'worse' than her.

It doesnt work IMO.

First come first serve should be the way it works but there should be exceptions for people bleeding stupid amounts of blood.

Thom