Engine on the dyno
Discussion
My engine went on Peter Knights Dyno today.
Not the resounding success I had hoped for.
The engine started and ran fine sounding fantastic. It then started to leak water and oil from quite a number of the head bolts. We stopped and went round the heads with a torque wrench but found little movement so there was no point continuing.
Back to the engine stand I guess.
Don't think I'll work on it tonight just go and sulk in the corner.
Steve
Not the resounding success I had hoped for.
The engine started and ran fine sounding fantastic. It then started to leak water and oil from quite a number of the head bolts. We stopped and went round the heads with a torque wrench but found little movement so there was no point continuing.
Back to the engine stand I guess.
Don't think I'll work on it tonight just go and sulk in the corner.
Steve
Steve
Sorry to hear that... not what you wanted
Slap me if I'm teaching granma, etc.... but did you make the same mistake I initially did and not seal the inner head bolts as they go into the water jacket.
Fortunatelly I was on the phone and said "guess what I'm just torquing my heads up" and the voice down the other end said "did you remember to seal the inner bolts etc...." I hadn't but did and engine was on dyno two days later. Thanks GTRCLIVE
Don't worry anyhow steve, that extra strip and second rebuild is worth at least 50bhp
Sounds like your getting there though
Sorry to hear that... not what you wanted
Slap me if I'm teaching granma, etc.... but did you make the same mistake I initially did and not seal the inner head bolts as they go into the water jacket.
Fortunatelly I was on the phone and said "guess what I'm just torquing my heads up" and the voice down the other end said "did you remember to seal the inner bolts etc...." I hadn't but did and engine was on dyno two days later. Thanks GTRCLIVE
Don't worry anyhow steve, that extra strip and second rebuild is worth at least 50bhp
Sounds like your getting there though
The fact that both water and oil was leaking indicates that it is not the studs into the water jacket.
The studs were all fitted using ARP sealant.
It has to be the head gaskets (leaks were on both heads).
I ordered the FelPro 1014 gaskets that were specified for my AFR heads but the only marking on the ones supplied was the word 'Marine'. It may be that these were the wrong gaskets, we will see.
Forgot to mention, another stud pulled when we tried to torque the head down so that will need to be helicoiled.
Steve
The studs were all fitted using ARP sealant.
It has to be the head gaskets (leaks were on both heads).
I ordered the FelPro 1014 gaskets that were specified for my AFR heads but the only marking on the ones supplied was the word 'Marine'. It may be that these were the wrong gaskets, we will see.
Forgot to mention, another stud pulled when we tried to torque the head down so that will need to be helicoiled.
Steve
Sorry about your troubles. I'm running AFR210cc race heads and mine required Fel Pro 1003 head gaskets. All the chevy AFR heads I've seen required this gasket. This gasket has an extra water hole that should be drilled near the center for extra cooling.
Lets see. So you torqued them in the right sequence. You used the ARP "white" goopy sealer on the head bolts. When you pulled the heads, did you check to make sure they weren't warped? I've done the helicoil thing, never on head bolts, but on intake manifold and exhaust bolts. Damn fine product isn't it?
Keep scratching your head, the answer will appear most likely in your sleep. Let us know how it goes.
Cheers!
-Mack
Lets see. So you torqued them in the right sequence. You used the ARP "white" goopy sealer on the head bolts. When you pulled the heads, did you check to make sure they weren't warped? I've done the helicoil thing, never on head bolts, but on intake manifold and exhaust bolts. Damn fine product isn't it?
Keep scratching your head, the answer will appear most likely in your sleep. Let us know how it goes.
Cheers!
-Mack
Sorry, just looked at the AFR website and you are correct. The FelPro 1014 are the ones with the steam holes. The 1003 are the plain vanilla version.
One final thought is that you could have overtorqued the head bolts causing the gasket to crush. Stripping a head bolt makes me think this could be a possibility.
Cheers!
-Mack
One final thought is that you could have overtorqued the head bolts causing the gasket to crush. Stripping a head bolt makes me think this could be a possibility.
Cheers!
-Mack
Mack
Data sheet that came with the heads says Fel Pro #1003 is for the 350 up to 4.1 bore, #1034 for 4.1 bore or larger and #1014 for 400s requiring steam holes.
Yes the heads were torqued in the correct rotating sequence from the centre out in 10lbs steps to 65lbs beginning at 40lbs.
Yes I used the ARP "white" goopy sealer on the head studs.
Not pulled the heads yet. Got up at 4AM to trailer the engine 2.75 hours up to the dyno so not in the mood to do it this evening. The heads are new so should not be warped but the guys on the dyno say its not out of the question.
I did one of the studs with a helicoil when I built the engine cos it pulled when I torqued it up (40lbs). I don’t think it’s the same one. That’s a whole new engineering ballgame if the helicoil has pulled but not impossible.
Steve
Data sheet that came with the heads says Fel Pro #1003 is for the 350 up to 4.1 bore, #1034 for 4.1 bore or larger and #1014 for 400s requiring steam holes.
Yes the heads were torqued in the correct rotating sequence from the centre out in 10lbs steps to 65lbs beginning at 40lbs.
Yes I used the ARP "white" goopy sealer on the head studs.
Not pulled the heads yet. Got up at 4AM to trailer the engine 2.75 hours up to the dyno so not in the mood to do it this evening. The heads are new so should not be warped but the guys on the dyno say its not out of the question.
I did one of the studs with a helicoil when I built the engine cos it pulled when I torqued it up (40lbs). I don’t think it’s the same one. That’s a whole new engineering ballgame if the helicoil has pulled but not impossible.
Steve
Hi Steve,
I've been there. That head bolt pulling out at 40ft.lbs isn't good. Those babies should hold until 65-70 lbs with no problems. Check here for the correct torque sequence www.worldcastings.com/tech/StockReplacmentTech.pdf
I'm wondering if your head bolts are too short and aren't threading all the way in. I had something similar when I had to run big block intake manifold bolts that were longer b/c the SBC bolts stripped my heads in this manner. You've got the right head gasket. Did you use an old 400 head gasket when you drilled your steam holes? Might try installing new gaskets just in case they crushed. What type of head bolts were you running? ARP?
Sounds like you need to take a couple of days off and then hit it again when your mind is clear. You'll work through it...don't worry.
Cheers!
-Mack
I've been there. That head bolt pulling out at 40ft.lbs isn't good. Those babies should hold until 65-70 lbs with no problems. Check here for the correct torque sequence www.worldcastings.com/tech/StockReplacmentTech.pdf
I'm wondering if your head bolts are too short and aren't threading all the way in. I had something similar when I had to run big block intake manifold bolts that were longer b/c the SBC bolts stripped my heads in this manner. You've got the right head gasket. Did you use an old 400 head gasket when you drilled your steam holes? Might try installing new gaskets just in case they crushed. What type of head bolts were you running? ARP?
Sounds like you need to take a couple of days off and then hit it again when your mind is clear. You'll work through it...don't worry.
Cheers!
-Mack
p.s.Did you drill your steam holes at the right angle? See the link for details www.worldcastings.com/tech/StockReplacmentTech.pdf
Cheers!
-Mack
Cheers!
-Mack
Got a video of the engine first fireing.
The first few seconds are building oil pressure then fires after a pause.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m02s0g00/videos/v8test.avi
Steve
The first few seconds are building oil pressure then fires after a pause.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m02s0g00/videos/v8test.avi
Steve
Don't know what else to tell you then Steve. Sounds like we've pretty much covered all the basics. On your helicoils, just remember to thread them in below the decks surface. Try new gaskets I guess and see what happens. The ARP fasteners are some of the best. You might try head studs instead of bolts. Won't have to worry about stripping holes anymore, and everything will be properly lined up. Good luck and let us know what you find out.
Cheers!
-Mack
Cheers!
-Mack
Thought about that when I pulled the first one so had my wrench checked in or standards room at work.
When the dyno guys went round to see if pulling the head down again would seal the leaks most did not move, a few moved but no more than quarter turn and the one that stripped went with little effort so I suspect it had already gone. On that basis I think their wrench was OK as well.
Did you see the video I posted last night.
Steve
When the dyno guys went round to see if pulling the head down again would seal the leaks most did not move, a few moved but no more than quarter turn and the one that stripped went with little effort so I suspect it had already gone. On that basis I think their wrench was OK as well.
Did you see the video I posted last night.
Steve
Sorry Steve. Forgot to watch the video last night. Yeah...that's one bitchin' sounding motor! I just love the sound of a Chevy!
This is a fresh motor correct? First time it was fired after your rebuild?
My thought is to replace the head gaskets, and maybe explore the purchase of head studs instead of bolts. No telling how many times the heads had been torqued before you acquired the motor. Also, remember your going to have to retorque those heads again after a couple thousand miles and you don't want to strip another hole and have to pull off the heads again. Fortunately, if you do, its a breeze to pull these heads off with the motor in the car. Been there...done that...
Like you say, if oil and water were present then the gasket hadn't seated properly. Could have been misaligned. Did you torque these in a gradual process? I go real easy when I torque my heads. Start at about 30-35lbs, go through each bolt, then move up in 10 lb increments? Before those boys go do anything crazy on the dyno, remind them to break in the cam.
Great idea with the video! Wish I'd done that the first time I fired my motor. Brings me chills just thinking about it. Keep plugging away...its well worth it in the end!
Cheers!
-Mack
This is a fresh motor correct? First time it was fired after your rebuild?
My thought is to replace the head gaskets, and maybe explore the purchase of head studs instead of bolts. No telling how many times the heads had been torqued before you acquired the motor. Also, remember your going to have to retorque those heads again after a couple thousand miles and you don't want to strip another hole and have to pull off the heads again. Fortunately, if you do, its a breeze to pull these heads off with the motor in the car. Been there...done that...
Like you say, if oil and water were present then the gasket hadn't seated properly. Could have been misaligned. Did you torque these in a gradual process? I go real easy when I torque my heads. Start at about 30-35lbs, go through each bolt, then move up in 10 lb increments? Before those boys go do anything crazy on the dyno, remind them to break in the cam.
Great idea with the video! Wish I'd done that the first time I fired my motor. Brings me chills just thinking about it. Keep plugging away...its well worth it in the end!
Cheers!
-Mack
Mack
Yes this is a new build. The block is the only part not new. It was the first time started.
It was built with ARP studs.
I used the 10lbs steps as stated in the data sheet for the AFR heads.
The cam is a hydraulic roller cam so will not need a break in as such.
Will start on it tomorrow, spent all day today trying to find an electrical fault that left my Range Rover without indicators or break lights for most of my drive home yesterday. Found a short in the back of the fuse box but not until I had stripped out all the relays from under the dash and all of the controls off the steering column.
Steve
Yes this is a new build. The block is the only part not new. It was the first time started.
It was built with ARP studs.
I used the 10lbs steps as stated in the data sheet for the AFR heads.
The cam is a hydraulic roller cam so will not need a break in as such.
Will start on it tomorrow, spent all day today trying to find an electrical fault that left my Range Rover without indicators or break lights for most of my drive home yesterday. Found a short in the back of the fuse box but not until I had stripped out all the relays from under the dash and all of the controls off the steering column.
Steve
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