F2 Testing at Silverstone

[Bernie-the-bolt]

Spent a really good day at Silverstone yesterday with the F2 Brundle team.

The cars are pretty quick only lapping about 15 seconds slower than an F1 car - and mostly driven by youngsters! Took a couple of pics for the album and more can be seen on my Flickr account here











A good day and it looks like a good series to follow

[stifler]

They are slower than the organisers wanted them to be. Only 3 seconds a lap quicker around snett than an FPA with 100hp less.

It will be a good series though. It is being run to the FPA business model and it has worked. The only problems will come when they have to upgrade the car, something that they never really spent the money on in FPA.

[Bernie-the-bolt]

stifler said:

They are slower than the organisers wanted them to be. Only 3 seconds a lap quicker around snett than an FPA with 100hp less.

It will be a good series though. It is being run to the FPA business model and it has worked. The only problems will come when they have to upgrade the car, something that they never really spent the money on in FPA.

Didn't know they were slower than hoped stifler.......but who cares when drivers look like this

[stifler]

Johnny P would never let on that they weren't fast enough. They were meant to be a tad slower than GP2(which the FIA sees as too close to F1 in lap times).

The design is a bit of a compromise through having to use the 1.8 audi 20v engine. They are using the steel block which is a boat anchor and it can't be used as a stressed unit in the car as the block twists and will crack if it doesn't seize first. So it has a steel framework around the engine to support it. The engine is on it's limits of development and they had problems initially in testing with reliability.

IMHO they would have been better using an Audi V8. 400 unstressed hp. Mountains of torque. Plenty of scope for power upgrades. Better sound.

I will be very interested to follow the series throughout the season.

[Bernie-the-bolt]

stifler said:

Johnny P would never let on that they weren't fast enough. They were meant to be a tad slower than GP2(which the FIA sees as too close to F1 in lap times).

The design is a bit of a compromise through having to use the 1.8 audi 20v engine. They are using the steel block which is a boat anchor and it can't be used as a stressed unit in the car as the block twists and will crack if it doesn't seize first. So it has a steel framework around the engine to support it. The engine is on it's limits of development and they had problems initially in testing with reliability.

IMHO they would have been better using an Audi V8. 400 unstressed hp. Mountains of torque. Plenty of scope for power upgrades. Better sound.

I will be very interested to follow the series throughout the season.

Thanks stifler - interesting piece of information.

Obviously JP wasn't letting on that the cars may not have been as per the original brief!

Regardless of those facts, they were still mighty fast and as I understood it, the Formula is a stepping stone into GP2 - is that correct?

[stifler]

I don't think it is that clear. The top 3 in the championship get an F1 superlicence and the winner gets a Williams F1 test drive IIRC. It is quite clearly going up against F3 and GP2, F3 for the pricing and GP2 for the prize.

I'm not sure if it was meant to take over GP2 as such, but maybe price them out of the market with the FIA's blessing.

[Bernie-the-bolt]

stifler said:

I don't think it is that clear. The top 3 in the championship get an F1 superlicence and the winner gets a Williams F1 test drive IIRC. It is quite clearly going up against F3 and GP2, F3 for the pricing and GP2 for the prize.

I'm not sure if it was meant to take over GP2 as such, but maybe price them out of the market with the FIA's blessing.

Don't forget GP2 is Bernie's baby

'price them out of the market'...as if

[stifler]

GP2 has never been formally accepted as the successor to F3000 by the FIA.
I agree that it is unlikely to be priced out of the "market", but you have to agree that F2 would be a far more attractive proposition for a year before spending silly money on GP2. You might get lucky and get "noticed".

[Bernie-the-bolt]

I think with the type of car and driver, the series will be well worth watching.

They all pay a sum for insurance and then an excess per prang. Based on the fact you can get insurance means they must be economically repairable and therefore there will be shunts!

[stifler]

You are pretty much right bernie. It isn't insurance as such. It is a damage fund in an MSV Account. I'm not sure of the figures for F2 but FPA was £7500 at the start of the season from each driver. £1500 excess for a shunt and the rest of the money comes out the pot. If there are savages on the grid, the pot has to be topped up throughout the season.

This is all part of the FPA business plan, and why JP got the FIA tender.

[Bernie-the-bolt]

£20k for the season - £3k excess per shunt as I understand it.

Seems like a bargain if you ask me

[Northern Munkee]

stifler said:

I don't think it is that clear. The top 3 in the championship get an F1 superlicence and the winner gets a Williams F1 test drive IIRC. It is quite clearly going up against F3 and GP2, F3 for the pricing and GP2 for the prize.

I'm not sure if it was meant to take over GP2 as such, but maybe price them out of the market with the FIA's blessing.

I had a trawl around the interweb, F2 is 15secs off the Silverstone F1 lap record, and the GP2 lap record is 10secs off the F1, I think F3 is more like 30secs off F1. In that regard its pitched in performance terms between F3 and GP2. F2 is clearly an FIA trademark, in reality this is MM's blue print for the low cost stepping stone future to F1? And MM's idea for a low alternative to GP2. It'll be cheaper than GP2 and F3 by dint of the Palmer running the whole thing out of one large awning and limited testing. The cars look like a bit too much like Formula Palmer Audi's for my liking. Although FPA used to be a good watch in its early days, Wilson, Faulkner, Lyons, so I'll give it a chance, I heard its on the WTCC package or at least it ran at the Pau WTCC on Sunday. And the FIA (someone correct me if I'm wrong don't see a penny of any money floating off the GP support package, all trousered by you know who).

Interesting that Williams was first up to sign on for MM's new F1, as the F2 car constructor, and just being racing car constructor enterprise, one has to show willing, eh.

[stifler]

BTB, I am surprised that the shunt excess is that low. I would have thought that he could have got away with 5k.

NM, the cars are very slab sided like the FPAs. The one bit of the car that looks totally wrong in my eyes is the air intake. It is a tiny hole and looks odd IMHO. Are those lap times for Silverstone? I thought the GP2 cars were quicker than that?

[Northern Munkee]

stifler said:

BTB, I am surprised that the shunt excess is that low. I would have thought that he could have got away with 5k.

NM, the cars are very slab sided like the FPAs. The one bit of the car that looks totally wrong in my eyes is the air intake. It is a tiny hole and looks odd IMHO. Are those lap times for Silverstone? I thought the GP2 cars were quicker than that?

Air intake is pure FPA, I don't like the nose, bulky and droopy for me but then again you probably can't package too tight as that takes big bucks to get the crash structure to work, plus as paying drivers they need to make sure beanpoles can drive it.

As to cost those prices, does seem awfully cheap. But hats off to MM & JP if they can do it for that. Its probably a fraction of GP2, which is well into 6 figures. Although the GP2 cars look sexier.

[stifler]

More to the point, at some point they will end up with tubby fkers in the cars as it is a paying series!

[Altrezia]

20k? That's amazing value! I'm almost tempted to sell the cars and give it a go...

[stifler]

Altrezia said:

20k? That's amazing value! I'm almost tempted to sell the cars and give it a go...

20k damage deposit. 150k for the season iirc.

You might want to sell the house too...

[SimonY]

Northern Munkee said:

stifler said:

I don't think it is that clear. The top 3 in the championship get an F1 superlicence and the winner gets a Williams F1 test drive IIRC. It is quite clearly going up against F3 and GP2, F3 for the pricing and GP2 for the prize.

I'm not sure if it was meant to take over GP2 as such, but maybe price them out of the market with the FIA's blessing.

I had a trawl around the interweb, F2 is 15secs off the Silverstone F1 lap record, and the GP2 lap record is 10secs off the F1, I think F3 is more like 30secs off F1. In that regard its pitched in performance terms between F3 and GP2. F2 is clearly an FIA trademark, in reality this is MM's blue print for the low cost stepping stone future to F1? And MM's idea for a low alternative to GP2. It'll be cheaper than GP2 and F3 by dint of the Palmer running the whole thing out of one large awning and limited testing. The cars look like a bit too much like Formula Palmer Audi's for my liking. Although FPA used to be a good watch in its early days, Wilson, Faulkner, Lyons, so I'll give it a chance, I heard its on the WTCC package or at least it ran at the Pau WTCC on Sunday. And the FIA (someone correct me if I'm wrong don't see a penny of any money floating off the GP support package, all trousered by you know who).

Interesting that Williams was first up to sign on for MM's new F1, as the F2 car constructor, and just being racing car constructor enterprise, one has to show willing, eh.

F3 is about 20 seconds off F1 (1:20 - 1:40) so assuming from the testing times they got some dry running F2 is pretty much the same pace.

[Bernie-the-bolt]

stifler said:

Altrezia said:

20k? That's amazing value! I'm almost tempted to sell the cars and give it a go...

20k damage deposit. 150k for the season iirc.

You might want to sell the house too...

According to a reliable source the budget for a season is about £250k +/-

The £20k insurance and £3k shunt excess are reliable figures.

Regardless of the times being a bit faster or slower than intended, I think it'll prove to be a worthwhile addition to the calendar.

[andy97]

I hope it does well & most things that Dr JP gets behind do, but did we need another formula? We already have National F3, European F3, GP2, Formula Masters, Superleague, European F3000, plans for a GP3, World Series by Renault.

Come back the good old days when there was just F3 & F2 on the way up & they were both multi-chassis formulae.