Manifold removal on 86 turbo

[MGFCUP]

Having given up on a garage repairing my 86 G turbo before xmas,I decided to do it myself !!
The car has two problems and I,d appreciate any advice .
1. It will go into gear but when the clutch is released the gearbox sounds like a box of spanners and no drive ?

2. Whilst taking the box out I thought i,d attend to a small leak on the joint between manifold and wastegate adapter - you guessed it 3 of 4 10mm bolts sheared at manifold end and 2 at the turbo end! So now the manifold has to come off .The engine was only out 200miles ago so the studs are new .
Do I need to remove the engine to get the manifold off ?????????

[cnh1990]

I have heard of people removing the manifold with the engine in place. All say it is almost as difficult as removing the engine.

Calvin

[AZ88Turbo]

I have been going through the same thing with the manifold. It is possible to remove it without removing the engine but I found it was faster (and less painfull) to remove the engine.

Mark (88 Turbo)

[MGFCUP]

Thanks ,

As the gearbox is coming out anyway ( anyone else had that problem with the citroen box ?),engine out sounds best . It s just that its the 3rd time in 1000 miles !!At least I can do the cam belt easier !

[lotusguy]

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. It sounds as if the throw-out bearing has gone away. How many miles on the car/bearing?

One thing to be very mindful on in the citroen boxed cars is that the input shaft hasn't lost the circlip securing it to the primary shaft. If this happens (somewhat common), the spring between ther input and primary shafts will cause the input shaft to auger into the crankshaft.

If this were to have occured, the input shaft will not separate w/ the tranny, making an engine removal necessary. Check the crankshaft and input shaft for wear, Also the opposite end of the input shaft to see if the splines show any wear. If so, you will need to have the crank removed and machined to accept a collar (available through Lotus) and probably need to have at least a new input shaft, if severe enough damage, perhaps even a primary shaft as well.

I am in the middle of repairing a club member's '88 for just these reasons and is the second one I've come across. Let me know what you find once the box is removed. Hopefully, it will just be replacement of the T/O bearing. Happy Motoring!... Jim'85TE

[MGFCUP]

Hi ,
Thats Ok , having got racing out of my system and always wanting esprits , I sold the race gear and bought two G Esprits . I,m in it for the long term so whilst this is a pain its nothing compared with racing!!.

I,ve got the better of the manifold I think but the easiest way seems to be take the engine out and then you can get to it , althoughj getting the sheared off studs out will be entertaining!!

The Gear box I must admit worries me a bit as I can get it in gear . If the release bearing was broken would it still go in gear ?

Richard

[lotusguy]

MGFCUP said:

Hi , Thats Ok , having got racing out of my system and always wanting esprits , I sold the race gear and bought two G Esprits . I,m in it for the long term so whilst this is a pain its nothing compared with racing!!. I,ve got the better of the manifold I think but the easiest way seems to be take the engine out and then you can get to it , althoughj getting the sheared off studs out will be entertaining!! The Gear box I must admit worries me a bit as I can get it in gear . If the release bearing was broken would it still go in gear ? Richard

Richard,

Yep, you don't need the clutch to shift gears with the engine off. If you're saying that you can do this with the engine running, T/O bearing failure is often progressive and not necessarily total or sudden. However, once they start making noise, esp. the kind you describe, they only have a few miles left in them. Happy Motoring!...Jim'85TE

>> Edited by lotusguy on Monday 1st December 18:58

[MGFCUP]

Hi Jim ,
The car is up on stands with the drive shafts disconnected.
It will go in gear with the engine running using the clutch but when the clutch peddle is released it makes a noise like grinding gears !.All gears are obtainable but it makes the same noise .
Hoping to have time to get it out in a couple of weeks but your advice is very helpful .

Rich

[lotusracer_vic]

Although the easiest way to get the manifold out is with the engine out, I have removed it with the engine in, most recently on my '77 a few weeks ago. For those who may be faced with it in the future, it helps to remove the engine mount and bracket that attaches to the block under the manifold and unbolt the engine mount on the other side of the engine. Support the engine with a jack (and wood blocks to spread the force) and use it to raise the engine slightly if needed to get the manifold to clear the frame. I also needed to remove the frame diagonal brace near the manifold.

Be sure to evenly put the nuts back on - some won't start threading unless the manifold is loose.

As far as the trans, it sounds rather nasty. I had blown out 2nd gear in my Citroen gearbox on my 83 Turbo a number of years back and the shards proceeded to grind into other gears. Have you drained some gearbox lube and looked at it? If it's not too bad and later you need only a few parts, contact me - I might have some spares (I had to buy a used replacement trans). If yours is a Renault, sorry.

If you're going to replace the throw-out bearing, beware of non-identical replacements - I had one go out on me not too long after putting it in. The visual difference was that it had stamped steel "ears" on it instead of the cast. It looked like it should have been fine, maybe mine was an isolated case.

[lotusguy]

lotusracer_vic said:

Although the easiest way to get the manifold out is with the engine out, I have removed it with the engine in, most recently on my '77 a few weeks ago. For those who may be faced with it in the future, it helps to remove the engine mount and bracket that attaches to the block under the manifold and unbolt the engine mount on the other side of the engine. Support the engine with a jack (and wood blocks to spread the force) and use it to raise the engine slightly if needed to get the manifold to clear the frame. I also needed to remove the frame diagonal brace near the manifold. Be sure to evenly put the nuts back on - some won't start threading unless the manifold is loose. As far as the trans, it sounds rather nasty. I had blown out 2nd gear in my Citroen gearbox on my 83 Turbo a number of years back and the shards proceeded to grind into other gears. Have you drained some gearbox lube and looked at it? If it's not too bad and later you need only a few parts, contact me - I might have some spares (I had to buy a used replacement trans). If yours is a Renault, sorry. If you're going to replace the throw-out bearing, beware of non-identical replacements - I had one go out on me not too long after putting it in. The visual difference was that it had stamped steel "ears" on it instead of the cast. It looked like it should have been fine, maybe mine was an isolated case.

Vic,

The exhaust manifold on the Turbos is quite different from the S1. Lots more webbing and much less access. Also, the subframe differs considerably as well. It's still doable, but much more difficult than what you're alluding to. Most people feel an engine pull is actually less work.

Also, regarding throwout bearings, there are two spec'd parts from Lotus, a cast T/O bearing and a fabricated one. The fabricated T/O bearing is a leter offering and actually stronger than the cast one. While I have seen both fail, the cast bearing seems to be a sudden failure while the fabricated one seems more progressive. The fabricated bearing is used in conjunction with the updated pressure plate which has a curved finger diaphram as opposed to a flat fingered one. The breakpoint on the Turbos was engine # 22728. Series 3 cars used the cast iron T/O bearing prior to the introduction of the C35 Citroen box and switched to the fabricated one after the C35 introduction in '83. Interestingly enough, both had the flat faced T/O adapter profile and equally interesting is the fact that the S3 got the C35 box in '83 while it wasn't introduced in the Turbo until '84. Aside from it's diffrent rear cover, it is distinguishable by the prefix 'C' to the serial number which is stamped on the top front of the gearbox.

Perhaps the one you got was flawed from the beginning. This is not so far fetched as I have a friend with an '88 who's T/O bearing failed within a couple hundred miles of the time we installed it. And, of course, most things mechanical tend to fail either in their infancy (due to flaws in design or manufacture) or in their old age (simply wearing out), but rarely in mid-life unless some external circumstance intervened. Happy Motoring...Jim'85TE