Ultima GTR - the ultimate track day car?
Discussion
Hi, I'm from Switzerland and would like to ask people with Ultima track day experience about how good is a GTR really on track.
Let's say I would build a GTR with all the optional stuff (brakes, suspension etc.) available from the factory and put in an AS LS7 with 565 or 650 BHP.
Would that car go faster round a track then for example a Porsche GT2 with the same BHP? Or a Caterham R500? Or any other road legal track day car? All on semi slicks.
What are your experiences? What's your opinions?
I drove with Ted in his demonstrator and it was very quick. But this was on the road and it's quite different on track. And also never saw an Ultima on track here... There not very common here :-)
Thanks for your help
Peter
Let's say I would build a GTR with all the optional stuff (brakes, suspension etc.) available from the factory and put in an AS LS7 with 565 or 650 BHP.
Would that car go faster round a track then for example a Porsche GT2 with the same BHP? Or a Caterham R500? Or any other road legal track day car? All on semi slicks.
What are your experiences? What's your opinions?
I drove with Ted in his demonstrator and it was very quick. But this was on the road and it's quite different on track. And also never saw an Ultima on track here... There not very common here :-)
Thanks for your help
Peter
Peter,
It is funny that I read your post today. I just got back from a track weekend at Willow Springs International Raceway in Southern California. You've almost described my car perfectly with your request. LS7 (545hp), AP Racing brakes, G50/52, wing. We had a great time and were running mid to high 1:40 lap times on Michelin Pilot Sports (NOT PSII's) these are hard street tires. We're not very experienced drivers and were only about 5 seconds slower around the 2.5 mile course than the fastest drivers of the weekend. I'm not comparing us to the pure race cars that aren't street legal. That would be unfair as they are better drivers and more specifically built cars than a street legal GTR. Tires make a HUGE difference at this level. As was described above, and by the owner of NASA (http://www.nasaproracing.com/), the GTR is like trying to fly a Lear Jet. Not many pilots ever can or could, if they got the chance, master it. If we had slicks on it, frankly it would be unfair because it would be much faster than any of the other street legal cars out there. Remember, it's not bragging if its true. This is true. Just this weekend, I have a really cool vision in my mind of coming around turn 9 into a 1/2 mile straight and just literally walking away from a very nice, new C6 Z06. He just couldn't keep up.
In fact, here is the shocker. I am considering selling my GTR because it is too fast. I just didn't realize how fast is fast until I completed this car and took it out to the track. We've only had it out to 3 track weekends now and frankly, it scares my son and I to go as fast as this car wants to go. Sorry if that sounds sissy or weak, but if you've never driven this fast, you just don't know how scary it can be to go 120mph around a corner.... So if you're interested in a really nice, black, newly finished car with a great $ exchange rate. Drop me an email...
Paul
It is funny that I read your post today. I just got back from a track weekend at Willow Springs International Raceway in Southern California. You've almost described my car perfectly with your request. LS7 (545hp), AP Racing brakes, G50/52, wing. We had a great time and were running mid to high 1:40 lap times on Michelin Pilot Sports (NOT PSII's) these are hard street tires. We're not very experienced drivers and were only about 5 seconds slower around the 2.5 mile course than the fastest drivers of the weekend. I'm not comparing us to the pure race cars that aren't street legal. That would be unfair as they are better drivers and more specifically built cars than a street legal GTR. Tires make a HUGE difference at this level. As was described above, and by the owner of NASA (http://www.nasaproracing.com/), the GTR is like trying to fly a Lear Jet. Not many pilots ever can or could, if they got the chance, master it. If we had slicks on it, frankly it would be unfair because it would be much faster than any of the other street legal cars out there. Remember, it's not bragging if its true. This is true. Just this weekend, I have a really cool vision in my mind of coming around turn 9 into a 1/2 mile straight and just literally walking away from a very nice, new C6 Z06. He just couldn't keep up.
In fact, here is the shocker. I am considering selling my GTR because it is too fast. I just didn't realize how fast is fast until I completed this car and took it out to the track. We've only had it out to 3 track weekends now and frankly, it scares my son and I to go as fast as this car wants to go. Sorry if that sounds sissy or weak, but if you've never driven this fast, you just don't know how scary it can be to go 120mph around a corner.... So if you're interested in a really nice, black, newly finished car with a great $ exchange rate. Drop me an email...
Paul
brem said:
Hi, I'm from Switzerland and would like to ask people with Ultima track day experience about how good is a GTR really on track.
Let's say I would build a GTR with all the optional stuff (brakes, suspension etc.) available from the factory and put in an AS LS7 with 565 or 650 BHP.
Would that car go faster round a track then for example a Porsche GT2 with the same BHP? Or a Caterham R500? Or any other road legal track day car? All on semi slicks.
What are your experiences? What's your opinions?
I drove with Ted in his demonstrator and it was very quick. But this was on the road and it's quite different on track. And also never saw an Ultima on track here... There not very common here :-)
Thanks for your help
Peter
If you want track only car save some money and get a trick caterham.Let's say I would build a GTR with all the optional stuff (brakes, suspension etc.) available from the factory and put in an AS LS7 with 565 or 650 BHP.
Would that car go faster round a track then for example a Porsche GT2 with the same BHP? Or a Caterham R500? Or any other road legal track day car? All on semi slicks.
What are your experiences? What's your opinions?
I drove with Ted in his demonstrator and it was very quick. But this was on the road and it's quite different on track. And also never saw an Ultima on track here... There not very common here :-)
Thanks for your help
Peter
I went to check out a 2006 Dodge Viper Venom 600 yesterday. It has 625hp and 600lb of torque. It'll do the quarter mile in low 11s on street tires. It'll go through the slalom at 74mph. Can you explain to me how much difference your 500hp LS7 GTR compare to this Viper in terms of performance?
Are you talking about 120mph at a fast corner or a slow corner? I have done 80mph on a slow corner with a Lotus Exige S.
Another question, has anyone done a slalom speed test with the Ultima?
After seeing the Viper with the Hennessey Venom600 package, I'm thinking about buying it. But I still remember the acceleration of a GTR 450. It's definitely very quick.
Are you talking about 120mph at a fast corner or a slow corner? I have done 80mph on a slow corner with a Lotus Exige S.
Another question, has anyone done a slalom speed test with the Ultima?
After seeing the Viper with the Hennessey Venom600 package, I'm thinking about buying it. But I still remember the acceleration of a GTR 450. It's definitely very quick.
If you want to drive to a track, thrash a car all day and drive home it with no worries, a GT2 or GT3 Porsche will be perfect, and as fast as you're ever likely to need. And both are easy(ish) to go quickly in.
If you don't mind trailering a road legalish car, a Radical Sr3/8 or Juno will probably be faster than everything. If you had a road legal one and drove it to track, you may not want to drive back at the end of the day (assuming the car is able!)
If you want something in between speedwise, but will need tinkering with after most track days, is realistically as fast as you want to go without racing and will give almost as much of a buzz as the 2 race cars above, an Ultima is the way to go, imo.
If you don't mind trailering a road legalish car, a Radical Sr3/8 or Juno will probably be faster than everything. If you had a road legal one and drove it to track, you may not want to drive back at the end of the day (assuming the car is able!)
If you want something in between speedwise, but will need tinkering with after most track days, is realistically as fast as you want to go without racing and will give almost as much of a buzz as the 2 race cars above, an Ultima is the way to go, imo.
d3vine said:
I went to check out a 2006 Dodge Viper Venom 600 yesterday. It has 625hp and 600lb of torque. It'll do the quarter mile in low 11s on street tires. It'll go through the slalom at 74mph. Can you explain to me how much difference your 500hp LS7 GTR compare to this Viper in terms of performance?
Are you talking about 120mph at a fast corner or a slow corner? I have done 80mph on a slow corner with a Lotus Exige S.
Another question, has anyone done a slalom speed test with the Ultima?
After seeing the Viper with the Hennessey Venom600 package, I'm thinking about buying it. But I still remember the acceleration of a GTR 450. It's definitely very quick.
You won't be able to hide the weight of the dodge on track (circa 1500 KG)at 420 ish BHP per tonne it won't hang around but given a caterham can be less than 550 KG and produce a figure of over 600 BHP per tonne the dodge would be left floundering.Are you talking about 120mph at a fast corner or a slow corner? I have done 80mph on a slow corner with a Lotus Exige S.
Another question, has anyone done a slalom speed test with the Ultima?
After seeing the Viper with the Hennessey Venom600 package, I'm thinking about buying it. But I still remember the acceleration of a GTR 450. It's definitely very quick.
There are of course more radical (sic) road legal-ish track cars out there but if you are driving to and from then a caterham is up there with the best.
F.C.
d3vine said:
After seeing the Viper with the Hennessey Venom600 package, I'm thinking about buying it. But I still remember the acceleration of a GTR 450. It's definitely very quick.
Hennessey have just released a package for the new Nissan GTR which takes BHP up to 600hp, really sweet set up as well...I like their work.brem said:
Any more experiences / opinions???
I do trackdays in mine, in fact I brought one purely as my M3 CSL & Elise Sport 160 were a little slow due to the fact I'm not the best driver.I find the GTR really is a great trackday car, you're pretty much in the top 10% of whatever's on the track at that time. Personally I like rainy trackdays as it's a little more sympathetic to the drivetrain. In the rain I've found my car understeers slightly near the limit (but never been near the limit in the dry). Braking is great, never had a lock up (yet) or brake fade although did manage to set my old brakes on fire at the rear due to a sticking caliper.
Some of the things that have past me are:
Pukka Race Cars
Tweaked Caterhams
Most Radicals
A very fast Subaru STI
Porsche 996 TT (stock but wearing those Michelin Cups, had a good chat with the chap)
Probably other stuff but that's the notables.
In return I've passed nearly all manner of road cars you can care to mention... also had a good chase with a 997 GT3 in the wet, he was sliding around everywhere while the GTR was only understeering slightly.
I'm sure if I did a driver's course I could get better/faster but have to say the GTR really flatters me at the track.
Comparing the following official lap times around the Nurburgring:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_...
with the unofficial lap time of the GTR720 (just under 7:00, on par with the Radical SR8) shows that the GTR is much faster than pretty much anything else, in the hand of a professional driver. How that relates to building one for the occasional track day weekend may be different, but it does show you the potential.
MH
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_...
with the unofficial lap time of the GTR720 (just under 7:00, on par with the Radical SR8) shows that the GTR is much faster than pretty much anything else, in the hand of a professional driver. How that relates to building one for the occasional track day weekend may be different, but it does show you the potential.
MH
brem said:
Hi, I'm from Switzerland and would like to ask people with Ultima track day experience about how good is a GTR really on track.
Let's say I would build a GTR with all the optional stuff (brakes, suspension etc.) available from the factory and put in an AS LS7 with 565 or 650 BHP.
Would that car go faster round a track then for example a Porsche GT2 with the same BHP? Or a Caterham R500? Or any other road legal track day car? All on semi slicks.
What are your experiences? What's your opinions?
I drove with Ted in his demonstrator and it was very quick. But this was on the road and it's quite different on track. And also never saw an Ultima on track here... There not very common here :-)
Thanks for your help
Peter
Hello Peter,Let's say I would build a GTR with all the optional stuff (brakes, suspension etc.) available from the factory and put in an AS LS7 with 565 or 650 BHP.
Would that car go faster round a track then for example a Porsche GT2 with the same BHP? Or a Caterham R500? Or any other road legal track day car? All on semi slicks.
What are your experiences? What's your opinions?
I drove with Ted in his demonstrator and it was very quick. But this was on the road and it's quite different on track. And also never saw an Ultima on track here... There not very common here :-)
Thanks for your help
Peter
I have tryed to achieve good laptimes and to compare them against the cars competing in the spanish GT championship. The first time I drove the car at Jarama racetrack I was 14 seconds behind the gt polemans which is a huge difference.
For the second time I changed shocks, lighter wheels, brakes, suspension setup and engine bay cooling. The laptimes were better (around 9 seconds behind best racetime).
Last time I was there (with kumhos V700, no mufflers and front dive planes) my best laptime was just 3 seconds behind the best race time . This means that I could be running into the pack fighting for 5th to 7th overall position. Next will be antiroll bars, sequential gearbox, some weight saving and some extra hp. Best pole position time at Jarama was 1'38"200 and best race time was 1'41"350 (winner Ferrari F430). The last classifieds times were 1'51"420 and my best laptime was 1'44"870.
May be for the next attempt.
Cheers,
Javier
Edited by srreck on Wednesday 27th May 10:08
Edited by srreck on Wednesday 27th May 10:10
deadscoob said:
I don't think they're full on GT cars? GT3 spec cars seem to go round in 1:33-1:35?
Obviously I'm comparing times with the first time I was at the track in 2006 (GTA, GTS and GTB classes) . At present seasons the GT3 class cars are in the 1'34" mark !!Here they are http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjot-DwyJz0.
Peter,
I'm currently running the Ultima with a 454 small block with no more than 500hp (I guest some of them are probably dead). Socks are from NITRON 3 way adjustable.
Centre lock hubs are from Grasser Racing. (ATS wheels)
What I understand as a conclusion is that if you want a good perform with the Ultima in race condition you will need a good budget and to modify a lot of things. Obviously is not a car born for racing as it is delivered from factory. A fantastic trackday car with good road use capabilities but different from a pure race car.
Sorry, my english is not as good as it should be but... these are my thoughts.
Cheers,
Javier
Edited by srreck on Wednesday 27th May 18:25
Edited by srreck on Wednesday 27th May 19:50
I have an Ultima Can-Am 720, as well as a Lotus Elise (and many other cars). Here are my impressions:
Lotus: very easy to drive, very manageable, reliable, great for just about anything, corners amazing, but runs out of steam on the straights b/c it's just too underpowered. Overall a fantastic car that provides an insane bang for the buck.
Ultima: FAST. It's impossible to describe how much faster the Ultima is on the straights than anything in my grouping. Pulls like a freight train. Like someone else posted above, I am actually intimidated by just how fast the car is. However, in corners the feedback is much less than the Lotus - perhaps due to my not getting the Ultima to its limits? Brake feel also doesn't seem to have the feedback as the Lotus - again, perhaps I am not used to the car. I can tell you that because the Ultima is SO fast on the straights, it requires more forethought for the corners b/c you get to them so quick and enter them so much faster. It does require a lot more tinkering and wrench turning than my Lotus', Porsche's, Ferrari's and/or other cars I have had, which sometimes becomes a headache for someone like me who just wants to drive instead of tweaking things. Overall, if you're willing to deal with the tinkering, it's an fantastic choice and in the hands of a competent driver it's doubtfull that anthing else on the track this side of a full race car could take you down.
My 2 cents.....
Lotus: very easy to drive, very manageable, reliable, great for just about anything, corners amazing, but runs out of steam on the straights b/c it's just too underpowered. Overall a fantastic car that provides an insane bang for the buck.
Ultima: FAST. It's impossible to describe how much faster the Ultima is on the straights than anything in my grouping. Pulls like a freight train. Like someone else posted above, I am actually intimidated by just how fast the car is. However, in corners the feedback is much less than the Lotus - perhaps due to my not getting the Ultima to its limits? Brake feel also doesn't seem to have the feedback as the Lotus - again, perhaps I am not used to the car. I can tell you that because the Ultima is SO fast on the straights, it requires more forethought for the corners b/c you get to them so quick and enter them so much faster. It does require a lot more tinkering and wrench turning than my Lotus', Porsche's, Ferrari's and/or other cars I have had, which sometimes becomes a headache for someone like me who just wants to drive instead of tweaking things. Overall, if you're willing to deal with the tinkering, it's an fantastic choice and in the hands of a competent driver it's doubtfull that anthing else on the track this side of a full race car could take you down.
My 2 cents.....
ILuv4REs said:
I have an Ultima Can-Am 720, as well as a Lotus Elise (and many other cars). Here are my impressions:
Lotus: very easy to drive, very manageable, reliable, great for just about anything, corners amazing, but runs out of steam on the straights b/c it's just too underpowered. Overall a fantastic car that provides an insane bang for the buck.
Ultima: FAST. It's impossible to describe how much faster the Ultima is on the straights than anything in my grouping. Pulls like a freight train. Like someone else posted above, I am actually intimidated by just how fast the car is. However, in corners the feedback is much less than the Lotus - perhaps due to my not getting the Ultima to its limits? Brake feel also doesn't seem to have the feedback as the Lotus - again, perhaps I am not used to the car. I can tell you that because the Ultima is SO fast on the straights, it requires more forethought for the corners b/c you get to them so quick and enter them so much faster. It does require a lot more tinkering and wrench turning than my Lotus', Porsche's, Ferrari's and/or other cars I have had, which sometimes becomes a headache for someone like me who just wants to drive instead of tweaking things. Overall, if you're willing to deal with the tinkering, it's an fantastic choice and in the hands of a competent driver it's doubtfull that anthing else on the track this side of a full race car could take you down.
My 2 cents.....
Agree with all the above 100% Lotus: very easy to drive, very manageable, reliable, great for just about anything, corners amazing, but runs out of steam on the straights b/c it's just too underpowered. Overall a fantastic car that provides an insane bang for the buck.
Ultima: FAST. It's impossible to describe how much faster the Ultima is on the straights than anything in my grouping. Pulls like a freight train. Like someone else posted above, I am actually intimidated by just how fast the car is. However, in corners the feedback is much less than the Lotus - perhaps due to my not getting the Ultima to its limits? Brake feel also doesn't seem to have the feedback as the Lotus - again, perhaps I am not used to the car. I can tell you that because the Ultima is SO fast on the straights, it requires more forethought for the corners b/c you get to them so quick and enter them so much faster. It does require a lot more tinkering and wrench turning than my Lotus', Porsche's, Ferrari's and/or other cars I have had, which sometimes becomes a headache for someone like me who just wants to drive instead of tweaking things. Overall, if you're willing to deal with the tinkering, it's an fantastic choice and in the hands of a competent driver it's doubtfull that anthing else on the track this side of a full race car could take you down.
My 2 cents.....
But if tinkering is your thing (and for most builders I would say guess it would be), then the Ult is your perfect package.
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