Fiat to drop Lancia as a brand
Discussion
That would be sad.
What happened to the new Fulvia ?? It looked really good and could have been the start of something!
http://www.carenthusiast.com/news/article/116/Lanc...
What happened to the new Fulvia ?? It looked really good and could have been the start of something!
http://www.carenthusiast.com/news/article/116/Lanc...
I think that what they've done in the last 15 years is irrelevant to whether the brand should be kept. It was one of THE great innovative engineering-led marques and its loss would be a shame.
Big Fiats are a mistake. Big Alfas are a mistake. Big Lancias ought to work as an Italian riposte to Mercedes, but they've never thought up that clear brand strategy: Fiat = small, Alfa = sporty, Lancia = luxury, Maserati = GT, Ferrari = supercars. I can't see why that just isn't obvious.
Big Fiats are a mistake. Big Alfas are a mistake. Big Lancias ought to work as an Italian riposte to Mercedes, but they've never thought up that clear brand strategy: Fiat = small, Alfa = sporty, Lancia = luxury, Maserati = GT, Ferrari = supercars. I can't see why that just isn't obvious.
RacingTeatray said:
I think that what they've done in the last 15 years is irrelevant to whether the brand should be kept. It was one of THE great innovative engineering-led marques and its loss would be a shame.
Big Fiats are a mistake. Big Alfas are a mistake. Big Lancias ought to work as an Italian riposte to Mercedes, but they've never thought up that clear brand strategy: Fiat = small, Alfa = sporty, Lancia = luxury, Maserati = GT, Ferrari = supercars. I can't see why that just isn't obvious.
+1 Effectively sums up the situation perfectly!Big Fiats are a mistake. Big Alfas are a mistake. Big Lancias ought to work as an Italian riposte to Mercedes, but they've never thought up that clear brand strategy: Fiat = small, Alfa = sporty, Lancia = luxury, Maserati = GT, Ferrari = supercars. I can't see why that just isn't obvious.
I agree, it would be a shame to lose them, but apart from history what do they have? I don't think people (certainly in this country) would ever consider them a viable alternative to Mercedes. Even if they produced some good quality cars that didn't look like Kias it would take years to build up a reputations as a good brand.
Can Fiat afford to plough all that money into that? It would be easier to build an amazing 169.
Can Fiat afford to plough all that money into that? It would be easier to build an amazing 169.
Yes, it would definitely be a shame. I would miss them, in the same way that I miss Austin, Morris, Triumph, Riley etc, etc!
In fairness, being in the UK, I am a bit out of touch with the Lancia brand as it hasn't been imported for sooo long. I do remember wondering what would happen to Alfa and Lancia when Alfa were absorbed into the Fiat group as I perceived the two brands as being in very similar market sectors. It seemed to me that Lancia has been rebranded as more the luxury / executive marque and has lost some of its sporting edge as a result.
Maybe that's why we don't think thye've done much for the last 15 years!
Maybe they should make a really good 169 and brand it as a Lancia??
In fairness, being in the UK, I am a bit out of touch with the Lancia brand as it hasn't been imported for sooo long. I do remember wondering what would happen to Alfa and Lancia when Alfa were absorbed into the Fiat group as I perceived the two brands as being in very similar market sectors. It seemed to me that Lancia has been rebranded as more the luxury / executive marque and has lost some of its sporting edge as a result.
Maybe that's why we don't think thye've done much for the last 15 years!
Maybe they should make a really good 169 and brand it as a Lancia??
DJC said:
Personally I think the obvious solution is to realise that world rallying is currently devoid of any star attractions and PR. A full frontal Lancia Works attack on it would be a stunning PR exercise and would relaunch the brand in one go.
True but they simply don't have a car to do it with.A new Stratos would be out of the question as it would need to be a mass market/volume vehicle.
pixelpimp said:
Since the relaunch of Abarth there have been rumours of Fiat dropping Lancia.
It looks like this might actually happen, a shame to lose another manufacturer with such a rich heritage.
It's just that apart from the funky Ypsilon Lancia haven't produced a decent car for years.
Why would Fiat want to do that when Lancia outsells Alfa, yet Lancia is sold in fewer markets, as in no RHD? I can't see any logic in your “since the relaunch of Abarth” opener either? It looks like this might actually happen, a shame to lose another manufacturer with such a rich heritage.
It's just that apart from the funky Ypsilon Lancia haven't produced a decent car for years.
"Haven't produced a decent car in years apart from the funky Ypsilon"? Really Michael "funky"? Are you going for a job on The Sun? I'm 45 and still wouldn't use the word "funky" to describe anything other than music.
What about the Musa? Think I'm right that it's outsold the Fiat Idea, on which it's based, in Italy. No decent cars? Have you driven the new Delta for any length of time or lived with one for a week? IMO Lancia's only problem is that they are ahead of the game, no really. The new Delta is a real grower looks wise and a real 21st Century car. I've driven the 1.9 M-jet TT, 1.4 T-jet and the 1.6 M-jet which I thought was the most uninspiring of the three.
However, I recently went on Holiday to Italy and managed to swap the Bravo I was offered at the Europcar desk at Pisa airport for a base model or “Agento” Delta 1.6 M-jet and I have to say that the car was a revelation over that week and really grew on me. Performance was excellent as was the fit, finish and standard equipment level (air-con and a decent stereo system) and space inside the car. In fact it had far more room than in my 159 Q4 GTS, was as fun to drive but returned brilliant fuel economy over the week. Nearly 1,000 kms covered around Tuscany and only 55 Euros on diesel to return it with a full tank back at Pisa and I drove it hard all week.
Granted, you don’t see too many other Deltas on the road in Tuscany, but all the Italians have a look when you drive past or park up. And that brings me back to my “ahead of the game” comment. IMO the new Delta doesn’t photograph that well but in real life it looks almost futuristic for want of a better way of putting it. The whole range has induction engines that drive really well and want to be driven. The wife even loved it too and she’s hyper critical of cars, if not everything and loves driving the 159.
If the new Delta ever does come to the UK I’d be the first in the queue and would happily trade in my 159 for one because it’s a highly capable and usable car that stands out from the crowd. I can only assume that these “rumours” are coming from Fiat UK because they can’t be arsed to get behind this product. But there again they can’t even get the Abarth dealer network geographically sorted. I live on the south Bucks/Herts borders and my nearest Abarth dealers are in Romford or Northampton with nothing in the Thames Valley! Edit: I stand corrected and see that Thames in Slough are now an Abarth dealer. They weren't when the brand was originally launched in the UK though.
On the other hand, the customer service at the Alfa dealer network is not getting there, it’s actually got there over the last three years. My local dealer Perrys cannot do enough to please these days and is completely on a par with my BMW dealer experiences. The car is always washed and hoovered even if it’s in for a niggle and they even nipped round my house with the laptop when my 156 wouldn’t start, diagnosed the problem, sorted it and didn’t charge me a penny even though the car was out of warranty. From personal experience the new range of Fiat diesel and petrol engines are far superior to anything offered by VAG and reliable to boot.
If they could offer that sort of service for a Lancia return, plus a 5 year warranty (look how Kia and Hyundai have forged a place in the UK market) and the “Lancia 24” service they offer in mainland European markets then I’m sure that there would be quite a few UK buyers, especially with the interest the new Delta received at its UK debut on the LMC stand at the NEC CCS last November.
The plain fact is that Lancia is far from dead and is increasing market share and forging a new niche for itself as a stylish, practical, yet affordable luxury brand of drivers cars for people who want something different from the ubiquitous Golf/A3 or in the main uninspiring far eastern offerings. And you as a journalist on and son of the editor of the UK’s only dedicated Italian car magazine should know better than to post tripe like this. IMO of course.
Edited for Abarth Dealers.
Edited by Al Tee on Wednesday 15th July 01:54
Thanks for the lecture, the information (rumours/tripe) came straight from Italy.
Sorry, but the the Delta is just an Ugly Bravo, I said nothing of it's driving capabilities.
The original Multipla was a great thing to drive, and that was so ugly it failed to sell in vast numbers. The buying public need something more than deluded hardcore Lancia fans and their rose tinted glasses.
It's all subjective of course, but I think as a photographer (not journalist) regardless of whom I work for, I have an opinion.
The Delta indeed doesn't look too bad in Italy, the front end I am actually getting used too, disjointed as it is.
The rear three quarter is an absolute mess though. Nothing fits into any kind of intelligent design.
Sorry, but the the Delta is just an Ugly Bravo, I said nothing of it's driving capabilities.
The original Multipla was a great thing to drive, and that was so ugly it failed to sell in vast numbers. The buying public need something more than deluded hardcore Lancia fans and their rose tinted glasses.
It's all subjective of course, but I think as a photographer (not journalist) regardless of whom I work for, I have an opinion.
The Delta indeed doesn't look too bad in Italy, the front end I am actually getting used too, disjointed as it is.
The rear three quarter is an absolute mess though. Nothing fits into any kind of intelligent design.
pixelpimp said:
Thanks for the lecture, the information (rumours/tripe) came straight from Italy.
Sorry, but the the Delta is just an Ugly Bravo, I said nothing of it's driving capabilities.
The original Multipla was a great thing to drive, and that was so ugly it failed to sell in vast numbers. The buying public need something more than deluded hardcore Lancia fans and their rose tinted glasses.
It's all subjective of course, but I think as a photographer (not journalist) regardless of whom I work for, I have an opinion.
The Delta indeed doesn't look too bad in Italy, the front end I am actually getting used too, disjointed as it is.
The rear three quarter is an absolute mess though. Nothing fits into any kind of intelligent design.
No problem, I was just expressing my opinions. It wasn't meant to be a lecture. Deluded hardcore Lancia fans? Aren't they the people who think that Lancia should go back to rallying when it's quite obvious that the resurrected Abarth brand is where Fiat sees their rallying efforts going? Sorry, but the the Delta is just an Ugly Bravo, I said nothing of it's driving capabilities.
The original Multipla was a great thing to drive, and that was so ugly it failed to sell in vast numbers. The buying public need something more than deluded hardcore Lancia fans and their rose tinted glasses.
It's all subjective of course, but I think as a photographer (not journalist) regardless of whom I work for, I have an opinion.
The Delta indeed doesn't look too bad in Italy, the front end I am actually getting used too, disjointed as it is.
The rear three quarter is an absolute mess though. Nothing fits into any kind of intelligent design.
I disagree with you on the front of the new Delta, that's the bit I'm still getting used to. The 3/4 rear view I absolutely love. Intelligent design? Surely design is also subjective. Still each to there own. I see you don't dispute the sales facts and that was one of my points: Why when Fiat have started pumping money and effort into Lancia would they pull the plug? Straight from Italy? In the words of Alan Partridge "that sounds disconcertingly vague!" Bit like the tabloids when they quote "a friend" or "sources close to".
How about this? "TATA are dropping the Jaguar brand in favour of Austin and the first new offering is going to be badged Maxi." BTW, Tell the Italian Jaguar owners club that's straight from England.
If like me you are in your mid 40's with a couple of kids, don't want a people carrier and need flexible rear space in a contemporary modern design then the new Delta makes a lot of sense.
gremshek said:
Lancia mad the first mass produced monocoque car ( Lambda), brilliant cars in the 50's, the dear old Montecarlo and went on to Group C racing with the LC2
Don't let them go!!!
Why not restyle a Bravo and slap a Lancia badge on it in their honour? Don't let them go!!!
(just joshing with you btw - not being rude)
The bottom line here is that, whether the brand is euthanized or not, it’s going to have little effect on the die-hard Lancista who’s got an example of the marque’s glory days in his or her garage. Will Lancia ever release another car that sets the world alight like the Aurelia or Stratos? What do you think? Will the machinations within Fiat have any impact on the true Lancista? Methinks not.
alfabadass said:
Current Lancias are f
king nasty though.
Fiat have systematically sorted out all their brands. Maserati, Ferarri, Fiat, Alfa are great brands but Lancia seems to be the ugly duckling.
They need a mental relaunch of the Lancia Delta in a similar way to the 500 Arbarth!
Kind of agree!king nasty though.Fiat have systematically sorted out all their brands. Maserati, Ferarri, Fiat, Alfa are great brands but Lancia seems to be the ugly duckling.
They need a mental relaunch of the Lancia Delta in a similar way to the 500 Arbarth!
I've just come back from France from the in-law's place - and there's a chap 3 doors down with a brand new Delta.
In beige!
Not great.
I get the feeling they're the 'old persons car' on the continent!!
sider said:
alfabadass said:
Current Lancias are fking nasty though.
Fiat have systematically sorted out all their brands. Maserati, Ferarri, Fiat, Alfa are great brands but Lancia seems to be the ugly duckling.
They need a mental relaunch of the Lancia Delta in a similar way to the 500 Arbarth!
Kind of agree!king nasty though.Fiat have systematically sorted out all their brands. Maserati, Ferarri, Fiat, Alfa are great brands but Lancia seems to be the ugly duckling.
They need a mental relaunch of the Lancia Delta in a similar way to the 500 Arbarth!
I've just come back from France from the in-law's place - and there's a chap 3 doors down with a brand new Delta.
In beige!
Not great.
I get the feeling they're the 'old persons car' on the continent!!
There again I'm 45 so I guess that qualifies for old in some quarters. They don't drive like old peoples cars. Every engine throughiut the entire range has forced induction and the new petrol 1.8 T-jet has more torque and lower down too and more power than the old integrale plus they're very fuel efficient. Pity they don't stick that engine in a 159, or maybe they will?
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