Thursday 28th May 2009

Lotus Esprit To Get Lexus V10?

500bhp V10 from Lexus LF-A supercar mooted for Hethel's next project

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The new Lotus Esprit pencilled-in for production in 2012 could be powered by a 500bhp V10 Lexus engine lifted from the LF-A supercar that completed the Nurburging 24hrs last weekend.

Lotus artwork for the new Esprit

The prospect of a V10 Lexus-powered Lotus is being reported following the Evora launch event last week, and although not confirmed by Lotus itself, circumstances suggest the story could have legs.

Toyota and Lotus already have a close relationship thanks to their existing engine sharing program, and apparently the deal gives Lotus dibs on all the bits and pieces in Toyota’s global parts store.

According to speculation, that opens the door to a range of Toyota-powered Esprit supercars, starting with a tuned 300bhp V6 ‘entry model’, rising to a 417bhp version using the Lexus IS-F 5.0 V8 and topped off by the V10 powered flagship – the latter potentially costing well over £100k, but offering the sort of performance that would give more expensive Porsche and Ferrari models a serious fright.

Racer's 500bhp V10 is in the frame

There’s also the definite prospect of a hybrid version of the new car, as Lotus’s existing involvement with Tesla would suggest.

While work continues on the Esprit project – it shares a modified platform with the new Evora – it is believed that Lotus owner Proton is not yet fully committed to the project. Ultimately the Esprit’s future lies in the hands of Evora buyers, who must turn up at showrooms in sufficient numbers to reassure the Malaysian money-men that a more expensive model is commercially viable.

[Brabus Jord]

nice!

[RobCrezz]

Awesome!

[Alex Gurr]

I always thought that the Lotus/Toyota deal was a strange one and that a deal with Honda would have been more logical given the more sporting nature of their engines, but things seem to be developing nicely. The 4 and 6 cylinder engines still leave me a little cold, being derivatives of fairly mundane engines, but the 8 and 10 cylinder units sound very interesting indeed.

[Wilburo]

Alex Gurr said:

I always thought that the Lotus/Toyota deal was a strange one and that a deal with Honda would have been more logical given the more sporting nature of their engines, but things seem to be developing nicely.

Agreed - I always wonder why they chose Toyota when they could have access to the VTEC engines.

[rico28]

The pencil sketch is the Evora is it not?

£100k+ Lotus Esprit - now that sounds interesting

[motormania]

I hope that the image above is not the way that Lotus is going with the esprit.

I've never liked the Evora and the Esprit would be best not to pick up any design cues from that car.

Those concept shots in the mags a few years back are far more in keeping with what we want from the Esprit from a design point of view.

Have seen the Evora in the flesh and still do not like it. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Europa and never sell in the numbers that Lotus hoped for. Remember the Elise out sold any expectations due to the stunning styling, so far Lotus have not done the same with either the Europa or the new Evora.

Shame really...

[The Wookie]

Right so there's no confirmation of an Esprit currently being in development, and no confirmation whatsoever of this Lexus V10 being used in any project, therefore this story is based on reports of an Esprit project of a few years ago, and the fact that Lotus use 2 different Toyota engines therefore can have what they like from the parts bin.

Also throw in a bit about hybrids because Teslas are built at Hethel, even though the electric tech is completely different, for good measure

An entire page of pointless conjecture

[Frimley111R]

The Wookie said:

Right so there's no confirmation of an Esprit currently being in development, and no confirmation whatsoever of this Lexus V10 being used in any project, therefore this story is based on reports of an Esprit project of a few years ago, and the fact that Lotus use 2 different Toyota engines therefore can have what they like from the parts bin.

Also throw in a bit about hybrids because Teslas are built at Hethel, even though the electric tech is completely different, for good measure

An entire page of pointless conjecture

Abso-bloody-lutley my thoughts. An utter non-story!

In fact I even emailed the 'writer' and gave him some stick too

Edited by Frimley111R on Thursday 28th May 12:21

[ewenm]

motormania said:

I hope that the image above is not the way that Lotus is going with the esprit.

I've never liked the Evora and the Esprit would be best not to pick up any design cues from that car.

Those concept shots in the mags a few years back are far more in keeping with what we want from the Esprit from a design point of view.

Have seen the Evora in the flesh and still do not like it. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Europa and never sell in the numbers that Lotus hoped for. Remember the Elise out sold any expectations due to the stunning styling, so far Lotus have not done the same with either the Europa or the new Evora.

Shame really...

I thought the Elise sold well due to the stunning handling and involvement. The looks were (and still are) a bit Marmite amongst people I've spoken to. The reviews of the Evora seem to be very positive indeed in terms of Lotus's core capabilites.

[300bhp/ton]

Wilburo said:

[
Agreed - I always wonder why they chose Toyota when they could have access to the VTEC engines.

Could they?? Was there ever a deal on the table?

[PhantomPH]

Article said:

Ultimately the Esprit’s future lies in the hands of Evora buyers, who must turn up at showrooms in sufficient numbers to reassure the Malaysian money-men that a more expensive model is commercially viable.

Why?

Seems like a crazy argument to me. How can the sales of one particular car in a specific market, indicate how successful a completely different vehicle with a different target market, will perform?

Surely the real thing to look at would be the sales figures of the models in the market you are aiming are doing, before pitching your product into that arena.

[Jam Rock]

yes a complete non story......lifted almost entirely (including that sketch) from this months evo.

[The Wookie]

Wilburo said:

Agreed - I always wonder why they chose Toyota when they could have access to the VTEC engines.

I'd imagine those Type-R engines are bloody expensive to buy in, and Honda wouldn't be keen on anyone tweaking them to suit their needs.

Toyota is higher volume and probably much cheaper, virtually the same technology, similar outputs, and they probably don't care if Lotus want to tweak them to suit their needs.

What's actually wrong with the Toyota unit anyway? Just because they haven't got red rocker covers people seem to assume they're rubbish

[Frimley111R]

motormania said:

Have seen the Evora in the flesh and still do not like it. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Europa and never sell in the numbers that Lotus hoped for. Remember the Elise out sold any expectations due to the stunning styling, so far Lotus have not done the same with either the Europa or the new Evora.

Shame really...

The Evora is massively different from the Europa which was a Proton project that they ditched and as all the work was done Lotus badged it as the Euorpa, not their best decision! The Evora is completely new and a quantum leap from the Elise/Exige. I can't see how you can say Lotus has not sold enough Evoras when they are only just launching the car now. Bear in mind too that they export to 41 countries and with low volumes predicted their targets should be easily achievable. Don't forget too the convertible, auto and S/C versions on the way too.

[motormania]

Frimley111R said:

motormania said:

Have seen the Evora in the flesh and still do not like it. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Europa and never sell in the numbers that Lotus hoped for. Remember the Elise out sold any expectations due to the stunning styling, so far Lotus have not done the same with either the Europa or the new Evora.

Shame really...

The Evora is massively different from the Europa which was a Proton project that they ditched and as all the work was done Lotus badged it as the Euorpa, not their best decision! The Evora is completely new and a quantum leap from the Elise/Exige. I can't see how you can say Lotus has not sold enough Evoras when they are only just launching the car now. Bear in mind too that they export to 41 countries and with low volumes predicted their targets should be easily achievable. Don't forget too the convertible, auto and S/C versions on the way too.

I said that I expect them not to sell in the numbers that they expect! As for all the variants, oh well, here we go again... how many 'variants' of the Elise do we have now???

Although I agree that the Evora is vastly different to the Europa and Elise, my comment was not bourne out of a technical analysis, merely a stylistic one.

Always loved the Elise S1, always will (biased maybe as I owned one, but that's how I feel). As to everything since, excluding the Exige, I personally feel that have not matched the beauty of the S1. Having said that, I do like the rear of the Elise S2, just hate those Japanese slitty eyes on the front - YUK!

[motormania]

ewenm said:

motormania said:

I hope that the image above is not the way that Lotus is going with the esprit.

I've never liked the Evora and the Esprit would be best not to pick up any design cues from that car.

Those concept shots in the mags a few years back are far more in keeping with what we want from the Esprit from a design point of view.

Have seen the Evora in the flesh and still do not like it. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Europa and never sell in the numbers that Lotus hoped for. Remember the Elise out sold any expectations due to the stunning styling, so far Lotus have not done the same with either the Europa or the new Evora.

Shame really...

I thought the Elise sold well due to the stunning handling and involvement. The looks were (and still are) a bit Marmite amongst people I've spoken to. The reviews of the Evora seem to be very positive indeed in terms of Lotus's core capabilites.

In all the years I owned the Elise S1, I never came across anyone who did not like it. All ages, male and female. I used to get strangers come up to me in car parks and ask questions, wanting to have a look inside... To my mind it became a classic overnight. Oh and yes, the handling was bloody good too

[zebedee]

motormania said:

I hope that the image above is not the way that Lotus is going with the esprit.

I've never liked the Evora and the Esprit would be best not to pick up any design cues from that car.

Those concept shots in the mags a few years back are far more in keeping with what we want from the Esprit from a design point of view.

Have seen the Evora in the flesh and still do not like it. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Europa and never sell in the numbers that Lotus hoped for. Remember the Elise out sold any expectations due to the stunning styling, so far Lotus have not done the same with either the Europa or the new Evora.

Shame really...

For everyone that doesn't like the looks of it, there might be someone that does (the Evora that is). I think it is stunning and I desperately want one. I'm not sure that you are qualified to say which design direction Lotus should go in simply because you don't like it.

[stuart-b]

Wilburo said:

Alex Gurr said:

I always thought that the Lotus/Toyota deal was a strange one and that a deal with Honda would have been more logical given the more sporting nature of their engines, but things seem to be developing nicely.

Agreed - I always wonder why they chose Toyota when they could have access to the VTEC engines.

No thanks!

Edited by stuart-b on Thursday 28th May 13:12

[Chris-R]

Frimley111R said:

The Wookie said:

Right so there's no confirmation of an Esprit currently being in development, and no confirmation whatsoever of this Lexus V10 being used in any project, therefore this story is based on reports of an Esprit project of a few years ago, and the fact that Lotus use 2 different Toyota engines therefore can have what they like from the parts bin.

Also throw in a bit about hybrids because Teslas are built at Hethel, even though the electric tech is completely different, for good measure

An entire page of pointless conjecture

Abso-bloody-lutley my thoughts. An utter non-story!

In fact I even emailed the 'writer' and gave him some stick too

Edited by Frimley111R on Thursday 28th May 12:21

Thanks for the email, but I thought it fairer to respond to your points in public rather than getting embroiled in a private slanging match.

Unsurprisingly, I disagree with your comments entirely, as you seem to suggest we should ignore any stories based on informed conjecture or speculation, and perhaps also ignore anything reported first elsewhere.

We filter our stories based on the hope and (admittedly sometimes misguided) expectation that PHers will want to talk about what we think are interesting topics.

We can't get it right every time, but I'm interested to know why you think the story is so far outside the realms of reality, and also whether you have emailed Evo in a similar vein!

[DeadMeat_UK]

If the reviews of the Evora are anything to go by, the Esprit (if it's real) will have to be stunning to differentiate itself.

Mind you Porsche manage it with the 911 & Cayman and there is a fair overlap in capabilities, although I'd hope the Esprit was up challenging the turbo or GT3 end.

With regard to styling, I'd prefer a car that was a modern take on the Esprit wedge rather than the Evora design cues.

Edited by DeadMeat_UK on Thursday 28th May 13:16