Laminova oil cooler

[ultimichael]

Hi all,

for my new engine (Schwartz LS7, 700 hp) I want to use a Laminova oil-to-water cooler.
Some here already have used these, I assume the model C43-330 which is 395mm long.
It compares to a 25 row standard cooler.
I would prefer a shorter cooler. The EC54-250 has an (in my case) ideal length of 316mm but I think it has less cooling performance.
Wrote to Laminova and Thinkauto regarding the difference in cooling performance but got no answers.
Has anyone here used the EC54 or can compare it to the C43?
Do I need that much oil cooling for the LS7, road and track use?
All suggestions greatly appreciated.

Michael

[Steve_D]

Have you asked Jeff?
The problem I have with the Laminova is that for most power you should be looking for a low water temp and high oil temp which is not going to happen if the Laminova is in effect holding them both at the same temp.

The only aside to that is if you also have an oil thermostat in the loop.

Steve

[rdodger]

I have a Laminova on my Libra. Slightly less power I know.

The oil temp still goes up to around 120 on track with the water around 95. In normal driving it's generally within 5 degrees 95 - 90.

[ultimichael]

Steve,
haven`t asked Jeff but will do.
How hot should the oil be? A thermostat opens at 80 - 85 degrees C, so if the cooler is up to the job the oil should not get hotter than approx. 100 degrees. Or do I miss something?

Rdodger,
if your oil reaches 120 degrees I assume you don`t use a C43-330 but a smaller model.
The solution then could be using a smaller Laminova to get the oil hotter.

Michael

[ezakimak]

ultimichael said:

How hot should the oil be?

different oils have different viscosities at different temperatures. I think you would need to work out/know the required oil viscosity for an LS7 to produce best power. Then work out what combination of oil (10W50?) and oil temperature will allow you to arrive at that point.

You also need to consider the cold start requirements for engine protection as well. I’m in Australia so the cold start thing isn’t as much of an issue for me. If I recall you are in Germany and as such will need to consider the oils viscosity at the temperatures during the winter when you start the engine.

I would guess that General Motors have selected the stock oil weight, oil cooling and oil system for the LS7 to provide reliable performance. There may be some performance to be gained by optimising the oil for its application in an Ultima verses the trade of in reliability, something that GM would nt allow due to the costs and negative publicity associated with it. Keep in mind that they have to engineer for "Joe Average" who doesn’t have a clue about it.

Ryan

Edited by ezakimak on Wednesday 3rd June 00:31

[Steve_D]

ultimichael said:

How hot should the oil be?

I don't know if this can read across to the LS7 but David Vizard advises that an SBC will make most power with a water temp of 170°F (77°C) and oil temp between 180°F (82°C) and 210°F (99°C).

Steve

[MarkWebb]

I know its a bit chilly out there but now I have fitted oil temp gauge I notice oil temp never higher than 55deg c. That is way too cold. condensation will stay in oil etc. I think I need an oil temp stat in lines to cooler!

[JoulesCanAm]

Don't beleive everything you read....

I would suggest to first calibrate the gauge against a real life reading as that sounds too low for an engine that is at operating temperature. Not impossible if you have an air to oil cooler, but generally oil temp is unlikely to be less than coolant temp. Quickest tell all is what does the oil temp increase to when car is running and stationery with no air movement over cooler? Or tape up the side vent and run to see where it lands.

If you are referring to a Laminova cooler as per the thread then it is definitely not a realistic oil temp number. A laminova is a simply a heat exchanger, it cannot cool more than the coolant temp.

FWIW with a Laminova (can't recall the model, but it's the largest dual core) my oil temp sits right at 30 degrees F above coolant temp once engine is warm and t-stat open. Prior to installation I'd get up to 280F-300F on spirited track driving. That's right on the limit for synthetic oils as they start breaking down around those temps.

Julian

Edited by JoulesCanAm on Wednesday 10th March 01:15

[Swiss_Toni]

One thing you have to remember is the the heat has to go some where and if it is into the coolant then you need to look at uprating the cooling system to handle the extra heat.

[grasser]

Why you guys dont fill Water Wetter. Its a additive for the Coolant Fluid and brings min on any LS7 a minus 5-7 Deg. Temp. on Driving!
It has also the effect that oil is cooler!
We use this on every car we build and the effect is amazing!

Here is the link to buy it: http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=117&amp...

Red Line has also the best Gearbox and Engine Oil for Racing!

Edited by grasser on Wednesday 10th March 06:13

Edited by grasser on Wednesday 10th March 06:16

[spatz]

I have the same thing that the oil temperature is rising very slowly, so far have not seen more than 60deg.
I have now blocked off the oil cooler and will conduct further tests to see if I can get oil temperature higher, whenever the wheather gets better, the car gets a registration and I can finally drive it legally with a number plate......

[UltimaCH]

spatz said:

I have the same thing that the oil temperature is rising very slowly, so far have not seen more than 60deg.
I have now blocked off the oil cooler and will conduct further tests to see if I can get oil temperature higher, whenever the wheather gets better, the car gets a registration and I can finally drive it legally with a number plate......

Do you have a thermostat in the oil cooling circuit?

[spatz]

not yet because the moroso piece the factory sells is not closing 100% always allows for a certain flow, is anybody using it and how quickly is the oil temp going to 80 deg ?

Edited by spatz on Wednesday 10th March 08:38

[pilbeam_mp62]

I use the factory-supplied thermostat - I have not noticed any issues with it, although I don;t have a separate oil temp gauge - after a 5 mile gentle run, the thermostat has definitely opened (85 degrees, I think)

I would eliminate a gauge malfunction by switching the wiring with your water temp gauge. Then, I would eliminate a sender malfunction by dipping it in water of a known temperature.

Regards

ETA - Where exactly in the oil circuit do you have the sender located, spatz ?

Edited by pilbeam_mp62 on Wednesday 10th March 09:17

[spatz]

interesting my oil temp gauge is sitting in top of the cover of the camshaft in the same pipe as the oil pressure sensor. I also heard from Z06 owner that they hardly reach 70 degrees with the LS7, I have an infrared thermometer and will examine this further in the future. would be interesting to know your measurement at the oil thermostat housing.

[pilbeam_mp62]

spatz said:

interesting my oil temp gauge is sitting in top of the cover of the camshaft in the same pipe as the oil pressure sensor. I also heard from Z06 owner that they hardly reach 70 degrees with the LS7, I have an infrared thermometer and will examine this further in the future. would be interesting to know your measurement at the oil thermostat housing.

Well the measured temperature is obviously entirely dependant on where the sensor is - I expect it might be 70 degrees as it comes out of the bottom of the tank - but not where it flows into the thermostat !! I think the temperature should be measured after the oil has "done it's job" i.e. somewhere in the line between the bottom of the motor and the tank - but I am sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me if I am talking rubbish

All I can tell you is that on the dyno readout that I have, the oil temp varied between 86 and 88 degrees and, as previously mentioned, my thermostat appears to be doing it's job properly.

Regards

[UltimaCH]

pilbeam_mp62 said:

spatz said:

interesting my oil temp gauge is sitting in top of the cover of the camshaft in the same pipe as the oil pressure sensor. I also heard from Z06 owner that they hardly reach 70 degrees with the LS7, I have an infrared thermometer and will examine this further in the future. would be interesting to know your measurement at the oil thermostat housing.

Well the measured temperature is obviously entirely dependant on where the sensor is - I expect it might be 70 degrees as it comes out of the bottom of the tank - but not where it flows into the thermostat !! I think the temperature should be measured after the oil has "done it's job" i.e. somewhere in the line between the bottom of the motor and the tank - but I am sure someone will be along in a minute to tell me if I am talking rubbish

All I can tell you is that on the dyno readout that I have, the oil temp varied between 86 and 88 degrees and, as previously mentioned, my thermostat appears to be doing it's job properly.

Regards

I totally agree. The oil temp should be measured after having done its job, i.e. at the bottom of the sump or exit pipe.

Edited by UltimaCH on Wednesday 10th March 11:03

[martinlaw]

My oil temp sender goes straight into the sump. normal driving the temp never goes above 80 degrees but on a track is goes up to 120 possibly more if i did not let it cool down. I am looking into fitting a stat and larger oil cooler to sort this (hi Dom!!)

Main problem i find is the time it takes for the oil to get to temp. My engine builder says oil needs to be 95 - 100 degrees to work at its best so a stat. will hopefully shorten the time the oil takes to get up to temp.

[spatz]

exactly the reason why i did not go for the moroso, maybe someone has a link to a valve that is adjustable in temperatures or electronically controlled, DAsh 12 would be perfect

[pilbeam_mp62]

Spatz - the factory don't supply a Moroso thermostat - they supply a Mocal one - and it works perfectly with an LS7 - it has -12 fittings and it is this one :-

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p3476/OIL-THERMO...

If I were to fit an oil temperature sender into my LS7 set-up, I would use this..

http://www.speedflowshop.co.uk/-12-jic-temperature...

..and either plumb it in just after the oil line comes out of the bottom of the motor (but difficult to get to now unless I use a lift) or plumb it in just before the thermostat(much easier)

If I use the first method, I would expect the temperature to read a couple of degrees higher than the second method.



Regards