Entry level DSLR advice required
Discussion
We're planning a month of road trippin' across the USA next year and would like to have some good photos to remember it all - We've been thinking about getting a DSLR and fine tuning our photography skills for some time so putting the two together, we're looking at getting an entry level DSLR in the next few months.
Given that some people here have a few years experience in this sort of thing I thought I'd ask a few questions.
1) Have digital compact cameras progressed sufficiently to save hulking a DSLR around the US, should we just invest in a decent compact camera?
2) I notice DSLR's often come with lenses in a package. What should I look for in terms of lens quality etc?
3) What would be a sensible selection of lenses for our road trip? We'll be taking in lots of things from Classis Yank car museums, to Deathe Valley and the Grand Canyon.
4) Is it worth looking at second hand gear?
5) Canon or Nikon ?
Given that some people here have a few years experience in this sort of thing I thought I'd ask a few questions.
1) Have digital compact cameras progressed sufficiently to save hulking a DSLR around the US, should we just invest in a decent compact camera?
2) I notice DSLR's often come with lenses in a package. What should I look for in terms of lens quality etc?
3) What would be a sensible selection of lenses for our road trip? We'll be taking in lots of things from Classis Yank car museums, to Deathe Valley and the Grand Canyon.
4) Is it worth looking at second hand gear?
5) Canon or Nikon ?
1) Have digital compact cameras progressed sufficiently to save hulking a DSLR around the US, should we just invest in a decent compact camera?
Depends how serious you are to get the best results. Compacts can do a decent job 90% of the time and in decent light but have limitations, as you'd expect.
2) I notice DSLR's often come with lenses in a package. What should I look for in terms of lens quality etc?
Quality is usually proportional to price! A 'kit' lens, ie the kind you get with a body, typically 18-55mm, would still be better than a compact. If you don't care for the lens offered, you can buy the body only and add any other lens you prefer.
3) What would be a sensible selection of lenses for our road trip? We'll be taking in lots of things from Classis Yank car museums, to Deathe Valley and the Grand Canyon.
The greater variety of things you want to do, the more kit you need - but as you say there has to be a practical limit. When I spent a month in NZ and obviously wanted to record it as well as possible with the kit I had, I took an 18-70mm, 70-300mm and 50mm f1.8. However the 18-70mm took about 98% of the shots, so for me, if I could only take one lens from that selection, it would be that one (but your needs may vary). If you're into dramatic landscapes then the ultrawide Sigma 10-20mm is often mentioned.
4) Is it worth looking at second hand gear?
Certainly for lenses, yes. But I prefer new bodies simply because they're very complex and so a no-quibble warranty makes sense IMHO.
5) Canon or Nikon ?
[/quote]
Either.
Depends how serious you are to get the best results. Compacts can do a decent job 90% of the time and in decent light but have limitations, as you'd expect.
2) I notice DSLR's often come with lenses in a package. What should I look for in terms of lens quality etc?
Quality is usually proportional to price! A 'kit' lens, ie the kind you get with a body, typically 18-55mm, would still be better than a compact. If you don't care for the lens offered, you can buy the body only and add any other lens you prefer.
3) What would be a sensible selection of lenses for our road trip? We'll be taking in lots of things from Classis Yank car museums, to Deathe Valley and the Grand Canyon.
The greater variety of things you want to do, the more kit you need - but as you say there has to be a practical limit. When I spent a month in NZ and obviously wanted to record it as well as possible with the kit I had, I took an 18-70mm, 70-300mm and 50mm f1.8. However the 18-70mm took about 98% of the shots, so for me, if I could only take one lens from that selection, it would be that one (but your needs may vary). If you're into dramatic landscapes then the ultrawide Sigma 10-20mm is often mentioned.
4) Is it worth looking at second hand gear?
Certainly for lenses, yes. But I prefer new bodies simply because they're very complex and so a no-quibble warranty makes sense IMHO.
5) Canon or Nikon ?
[/quote]
Either.
1) Have digital compact cameras progressed sufficiently to save hulking a DSLR around the US, should we just invest in a decent compact camera?
IMO, no, not even close. Even the cheapest DSLR will have far superior image quality as it has a much larger sensor, better handling as you'll get dedicated buttons instead of having to scroll through menus and faster operation as metering and focusing are done by seperate sensors rather than the image sensor doing a mediocre job of all of them.
Then again, if you find the size or weight objectionable or don't mind going through menus, lower image quality and slower operation then a good compact might be better. No point having great gear but leaving it in the hotel room because it's an unwanted weight around your neck.
2) I notice DSLR's often come with lenses in a package. What should I look for in terms of lens quality etc?
Most kit lenses these days are very good for amature shooting, you'll only notice a difference in image quality if you really know what to look for in the final image. Options the some kit lenses come with that might be worth looking out for are a rotating or static front element, static is better if you use polerising or ND filters as the filter stays in the right orientation when zooming and focusing. Vibration Reduction or Image Stabelisation (VR or IS), both the same thing, helps cancel out small hand movements, meaning you can shoot with somewhat slower shutter speeds before the image becomes blurry. As far as I'm aware, all kit lenses these days come with focus motors built in in the form of Silent Wave Motors, so don't worry about that too much.
3) What would be a sensible selection of lenses for our road trip? We'll be taking in lots of things from Classis Yank car museums, to Deathe Valley and the Grand Canyon.
Depends on your budget. Assuming an 18-55mm kit lens, a 55-200mm would complement it well. Maybe an ultra wide and/or portait lens with large appature like a 50mm f1.8. Have a look at sites like Flickr for photos that are similar to what you'd like to take on your trip and check out the focal length and appeture used to get an idea of what you might want.
4) Is it worth looking at second hand gear?
I have little experiance buying second hand, so can't comment.
5) Canon or Nikon ?
Go to somewhere like Curries, Jessops or Dixons where they have both and ask to try one of each brand in your price range, idealy outside with a sales assitant, don't worry too much about the pictures themselves, image quality is near identical between them. Instead focus on how the camera body feels in your hands, how do the controls fall to hand, are they logically placed, basically do you like the way it handles. Some people prefer Nikon, some Canon, go with what feels right to you.
Hope that helps.
IMO, no, not even close. Even the cheapest DSLR will have far superior image quality as it has a much larger sensor, better handling as you'll get dedicated buttons instead of having to scroll through menus and faster operation as metering and focusing are done by seperate sensors rather than the image sensor doing a mediocre job of all of them.
Then again, if you find the size or weight objectionable or don't mind going through menus, lower image quality and slower operation then a good compact might be better. No point having great gear but leaving it in the hotel room because it's an unwanted weight around your neck.
2) I notice DSLR's often come with lenses in a package. What should I look for in terms of lens quality etc?
Most kit lenses these days are very good for amature shooting, you'll only notice a difference in image quality if you really know what to look for in the final image. Options the some kit lenses come with that might be worth looking out for are a rotating or static front element, static is better if you use polerising or ND filters as the filter stays in the right orientation when zooming and focusing. Vibration Reduction or Image Stabelisation (VR or IS), both the same thing, helps cancel out small hand movements, meaning you can shoot with somewhat slower shutter speeds before the image becomes blurry. As far as I'm aware, all kit lenses these days come with focus motors built in in the form of Silent Wave Motors, so don't worry about that too much.
3) What would be a sensible selection of lenses for our road trip? We'll be taking in lots of things from Classis Yank car museums, to Deathe Valley and the Grand Canyon.
Depends on your budget. Assuming an 18-55mm kit lens, a 55-200mm would complement it well. Maybe an ultra wide and/or portait lens with large appature like a 50mm f1.8. Have a look at sites like Flickr for photos that are similar to what you'd like to take on your trip and check out the focal length and appeture used to get an idea of what you might want.
4) Is it worth looking at second hand gear?
I have little experiance buying second hand, so can't comment.
5) Canon or Nikon ?
Go to somewhere like Curries, Jessops or Dixons where they have both and ask to try one of each brand in your price range, idealy outside with a sales assitant, don't worry too much about the pictures themselves, image quality is near identical between them. Instead focus on how the camera body feels in your hands, how do the controls fall to hand, are they logically placed, basically do you like the way it handles. Some people prefer Nikon, some Canon, go with what feels right to you.
Hope that helps.
But do your homework before you go and buy it over there. I got a great deal in LA in my Nikon D40x back in 06, it was $2:£1 at the time rather than the $1.5:£1 now but still a bargain.
Just remember you have to declare goods bought over the value of £143 on your return. If you don't loose the receipt that is.
Just remember you have to declare goods bought over the value of £143 on your return. If you don't loose the receipt that is.
autoholic said:
But do your homework before you go and buy it over there. I got a great deal in LA in my Nikon D40x back in 06, it was $2:£1 at the time rather than the $1.5:£1 now but still a bargain.
Just remember you have to declare goods bought over the value of £143 on your return. If you don't loose the receipt that is.
I once bought an expensive item in Hong Kong - Had no problems with bringing it back as I'd already posted the receipt and instruction manual home (you wouldnt take those on holiday with you, would you Just remember you have to declare goods bought over the value of £143 on your return. If you don't loose the receipt that is.
)autoholic said:
But do your homework before you go and buy it over there.
Seconded. If you buy from abroad some manufacturers (eg. Nikon) don't honour warranty on these "grey import" bodies. Lenses they do, for some reason.Re. Canon vs Nikon, totally agree with the advice on here to go and try both. They have a fanatical, almost religious following and you will get extremely polarised subjective answers if you ask a Canon person or a Nikon person which is best. At the end of the day, both manufacturers produce equivalent cameras at each step up the range, but both have their own preferred way of doing things, button layouts, menus etc, and you have to have a play with both to see if your brain thinks like a Nikon or a Canon.
Edited by mattdaniels on Monday 15th June 10:36
I'm going to be controversial and suggest that you also try...
A Sony
I recently had a look at the entry level DSLRs and although I went into it wanting a Canon (450D) I came out of it with a Sony A300.
It sat better in my hand, the menus/buttons seemed a lot more logical, it had decent features, etc.
Yes lens choices are more limited than Canon and Nikon. But I am not planning to buy any expensive lenses - by the time my budget allows me to spend £££ on some professional lenses, it'll probably be time for a body upgrade anyway.
In the meantime, I have the kit 18-70 lens, an M42 85-205 lens (got it for £3 on eBay - fits with £4 adapter and works perfectly - manual everything though!) and a set of £10 diopters for macro shots.
As far as P&S/DSLR goes... I was very happy with my Canon A640 before, and got lots of great shots with it. I find the DSLR gives me more "failures" (maybe to be expected as I do 90% of shooting in fully manual mode) - but the shots that work well, can't be matched by the P&S.
A Sony
I recently had a look at the entry level DSLRs and although I went into it wanting a Canon (450D) I came out of it with a Sony A300.
It sat better in my hand, the menus/buttons seemed a lot more logical, it had decent features, etc.
Yes lens choices are more limited than Canon and Nikon. But I am not planning to buy any expensive lenses - by the time my budget allows me to spend £££ on some professional lenses, it'll probably be time for a body upgrade anyway.
In the meantime, I have the kit 18-70 lens, an M42 85-205 lens (got it for £3 on eBay - fits with £4 adapter and works perfectly - manual everything though!) and a set of £10 diopters for macro shots.
As far as P&S/DSLR goes... I was very happy with my Canon A640 before, and got lots of great shots with it. I find the DSLR gives me more "failures" (maybe to be expected as I do 90% of shooting in fully manual mode) - but the shots that work well, can't be matched by the P&S.
rasputin said:
I'm going to be controversial and suggest that you also try...
A Sony
I recently had a look at the entry level DSLRs and although I went into it wanting a Canon (450D) I came out of it with a Sony A300.
It sat better in my hand, the menus/buttons seemed a lot more logical, it had decent features, etc.
Yes lens choices are more limited than Canon and Nikon. But I am not planning to buy any expensive lenses - by the time my budget allows me to spend £££ on some professional lenses, it'll probably be time for a body upgrade anyway.
In the meantime, I have the kit 18-70 lens, an M42 85-205 lens (got it for £3 on eBay - fits with £4 adapter and works perfectly - manual everything though!) and a set of £10 diopters for macro shots.
As far as P&S/DSLR goes... I was very happy with my Canon A640 before, and got lots of great shots with it. I find the DSLR gives me more "failures" (maybe to be expected as I do 90% of shooting in fully manual mode) - but the shots that work well, can't be matched by the P&S.
Funny you should mention that because I was looking at the Sony range last night. However, having read this review: http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Sony-Alpha-A35... I'm not so sure it is such a bargain after all.A Sony
I recently had a look at the entry level DSLRs and although I went into it wanting a Canon (450D) I came out of it with a Sony A300.
It sat better in my hand, the menus/buttons seemed a lot more logical, it had decent features, etc.
Yes lens choices are more limited than Canon and Nikon. But I am not planning to buy any expensive lenses - by the time my budget allows me to spend £££ on some professional lenses, it'll probably be time for a body upgrade anyway.
In the meantime, I have the kit 18-70 lens, an M42 85-205 lens (got it for £3 on eBay - fits with £4 adapter and works perfectly - manual everything though!) and a set of £10 diopters for macro shots.
As far as P&S/DSLR goes... I was very happy with my Canon A640 before, and got lots of great shots with it. I find the DSLR gives me more "failures" (maybe to be expected as I do 90% of shooting in fully manual mode) - but the shots that work well, can't be matched by the P&S.
Goochie said:
Funny you should mention that because I was looking at the Sony range last night. However, having read this review: http://www.digitalreview.ca/content/Sony-Alpha-A35... I'm not so sure it is such a bargain after all.
I didn't find many fantastic reviews of the A350. The general consensus was that you need a better (than stock) lens to make use of the extra resolution.That's why I went for the A300 with 18-70mm from Jessops for £284.
Simpo Two said:
So much of the Sony blurb seems obsessed with live view, which is largely pointless on a 'serious' camera IMHO. I want to see what I'm shooting for real, not on a telly!
Agreed, but... After a couple of years of Canon A640 ownership, I felt that I would have missed many good shots without the swivel-lcd. You can fit the camera in tight spots, raise it above your head, on the floor, etc... Not as precise as the viewfinder, but it will get you some shots that would be very difficult otherwise.I wouldn't recommend that anyone bought a Sony without first trying it out in the shop, though. A lot of people are critical about the shape/size/weight when they try mine out. Seems odd to me though, as comfort is one of the main reasons I bought it!
rasputin said:
Agreed, but... After a couple of years of Canon A640 ownership, I felt that I would have missed many good shots without the swivel-lcd. You can fit the camera in tight spots, raise it above your head, on the floor, etc... Not as precise as the viewfinder, but it will get you some shots that would be very difficult otherwise.
I guess that's true; my work doesn't seem to need such acrobatics! On the rare occasions I might want an overhead shot I'll just aim and guess, then do it again if it wasn't right. The D300 does have LV but it's so agricultural compared with normal that I don't use it.I guess the point is that it's easy to be impressed by manufacturer's lists of features without stopping to think if you actually need them or not. And if it's your first DSLR, you don't know if you need them...
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