Setting adaptives
Discussion
I've purchased a synchrometer which confirms both banks are pulling equal volumes of air so no need to fiddle with throttle link.
Both throttle pots are identical at 18.
Right bank adaptive is -20.
Left bank is -10.
I assume all that is left to do is pull the adptives up to 0 on each bank by adjusting the throttle pots. I guesss, in theory, this will mean the throttle pot readings will not match. Doies this matter?
I also assume that the ideal is: matching air flow, matching adaptives at 0 and matching throttle pots.
What is the missing variable that would give rise to equal air, equal adaptives but mismatched throttle pots?
Both throttle pots are identical at 18.
Right bank adaptive is -20.
Left bank is -10.
I assume all that is left to do is pull the adptives up to 0 on each bank by adjusting the throttle pots. I guesss, in theory, this will mean the throttle pot readings will not match. Doies this matter?
I also assume that the ideal is: matching air flow, matching adaptives at 0 and matching throttle pots.
What is the missing variable that would give rise to equal air, equal adaptives but mismatched throttle pots?
how much air is being drawn by each bank????? thats kg per hour??total per side to start,then we can get to the problem of setting the engine correctly.
jonbarrett said:
I've purchased a synchrometer which confirms both banks are pulling equal volumes of air so no need to fiddle with throttle link.
Both throttle pots are identical at 18.
Right bank adaptive is -20.
Left bank is -10.
I assume all that is left to do is pull the adptives up to 0 on each bank by adjusting the throttle pots. I guesss, in theory, this will mean the throttle pot readings will not match. Doies this matter?
I also assume that the ideal is: matching air flow, matching adaptives at 0 and matching throttle pots.
What is the missing variable that would give rise to equal air, equal adaptives but mismatched throttle pots?
Both throttle pots are identical at 18.
Right bank adaptive is -20.
Left bank is -10.
I assume all that is left to do is pull the adptives up to 0 on each bank by adjusting the throttle pots. I guesss, in theory, this will mean the throttle pot readings will not match. Doies this matter?
I also assume that the ideal is: matching air flow, matching adaptives at 0 and matching throttle pots.
What is the missing variable that would give rise to equal air, equal adaptives but mismatched throttle pots?
sychronometers are an approximation only. They aren't really accurate for anything other than detecting a problem, but I wouldn't use them for setting up the engine, other than to identify you don't have a problem 
.
The oxygen sensors are far more accurate at telling you the air fuel mix, so I'd probably use the adaptive map to set up your engine.
.The oxygen sensors are far more accurate at telling you the air fuel mix, so I'd probably use the adaptive map to set up your engine.
jonbarrett said:
Ridds
I sent the injectors off for flow testing and they all came back with a reprt saying they were identical.
Did they list what the flows were?I sent the injectors off for flow testing and they all came back with a reprt saying they were identical.
I find it hard to believe that they were "indentical" as such. I suspect the had a tolerance that they give to allow a pass condition. When I flowed mine on a rig they were close enough to be a set but I still had to batch them into a left set and right set as one set of 4 flowed slightly more than the other.
jonbarrett said:
I've purchased a synchrometer which confirms both banks are pulling equal volumes of air so no need to fiddle with throttle link.
Both throttle pots are identical at 18.
Right bank adaptive is -20.
Left bank is -10.
I assume all that is left to do is pull the adptives up to 0 on each bank by adjusting the throttle pots. I guesss, in theory, this will mean the throttle pot readings will not match. Doies this matter?
I also assume that the ideal is: matching air flow, matching adaptives at 0 and matching throttle pots.
What is the missing variable that would give rise to equal air, equal adaptives but mismatched throttle pots?
Are they pots identical with the engine running?Both throttle pots are identical at 18.
Right bank adaptive is -20.
Left bank is -10.
I assume all that is left to do is pull the adptives up to 0 on each bank by adjusting the throttle pots. I guesss, in theory, this will mean the throttle pot readings will not match. Doies this matter?
I also assume that the ideal is: matching air flow, matching adaptives at 0 and matching throttle pots.
What is the missing variable that would give rise to equal air, equal adaptives but mismatched throttle pots?
People get hung up on getting it even at idle .. and indeed I wrote a lengthy piece on achieving adpative nirvana at idle once upon a time. Ive now scrapped that way of doing it.
I look at the trend of the adapative readings through the adaptive map range giving little credence to idle values and set the balance according to the bias that trend shows. There's so much potential for airflow discrepencies at idle that I now set mine up so that when youre at light cruise you have the two banks as even as possible, and if that means the idle balance is slightly out so be it.
I look at the trend of the adapative readings through the adaptive map range giving little credence to idle values and set the balance according to the bias that trend shows. There's so much potential for airflow discrepencies at idle that I now set mine up so that when youre at light cruise you have the two banks as even as possible, and if that means the idle balance is slightly out so be it.
I think the airflow was 4kg. I did wonder about the value of adjusting the adaptives at idle. I do have the injector flow rates but not handy. Potentiometers are even with engine running.
If I was to record the adaptives with the engine under load is the a recommended rpm: how about cruising at 2,000 rpm.
Shame you can't remotely adjust the throttle pots while driving.
Two thoughts:
1) What about a simple bolt-on actuator that would trim the pots while driving?
2) What about an electronic trim to the potentiometer output for the same effect?
If I was to record the adaptives with the engine under load is the a recommended rpm: how about cruising at 2,000 rpm.
Shame you can't remotely adjust the throttle pots while driving.
Two thoughts:
1) What about a simple bolt-on actuator that would trim the pots while driving?
2) What about an electronic trim to the potentiometer output for the same effect?
ridds said:
jonbarrett said:
Ridds
I sent the injectors off for flow testing and they all came back with a reprt saying they were identical.
Did they list what the flows were?I sent the injectors off for flow testing and they all came back with a reprt saying they were identical.
I find it hard to believe that they were "indentical" as such. I suspect the had a tolerance that they give to allow a pass condition. When I flowed mine on a rig they were close enough to be a set but I still had to batch them into a left set and right set as one set of 4 flowed slightly more than the other.
spitfire4v8 said:
People get hung up on getting it even at idle .. and indeed I wrote a lengthy piece on achieving adpative nirvana at idle once upon a time. Ive now scrapped that way of doing it.
I look at the trend of the adapative readings through the adaptive map range giving little credence to idle values and set the balance according to the bias that trend shows. There's so much potential for airflow discrepencies at idle that I now set mine up so that when youre at light cruise you have the two banks as even as possible, and if that means the idle balance is slightly out so be it.
I try to get mine as even as possible around the 2k dead spot area, seems to help with smoother running.I look at the trend of the adapative readings through the adaptive map range giving little credence to idle values and set the balance according to the bias that trend shows. There's so much potential for airflow discrepencies at idle that I now set mine up so that when youre at light cruise you have the two banks as even as possible, and if that means the idle balance is slightly out so be it.
I tried setting mine up last week and made a total hash of it, now she's running dog rough and drinking fuel like its magners on a hot day, will have to try and set her up from scratch again, it does seem to be bloody hard to get right, I set up jet engines that are easier to get right!
Edited by brakedust on Saturday 6th June 13:00
i reset my throttle pots this morning at 15 with the throttles closed and it just seems to have sorted all the other readings. The adaptives at idle aRE upto 20% but at other speeds they are between 0 and 5 so it just seems to have worked. the pinking at full load low revs seems also to have gone. have i just been lucky?
I got a new one from clever trevor and it flicks around the same as the one that came out - the other is rock solid but looks different somehow.
I wonder whether there are different types/manufacturers - wasn't impressed with the clevor trevor one. Cheap but . . .
I wonder whether there are different types/manufacturers - wasn't impressed with the clevor trevor one. Cheap but . . .
Edited by smash on Saturday 6th June 18:31
What you and smash are seeing is entirely typical. the clever trevor pots are excellent quality, I use them all the time. Go onto the final screen (page down on your laptop) and look at the dThrottle box (rate of change of throttle) .. if it's coming up no control that means teh throttle avlue is changing enough to bring in some accel enrichment and timing increases, if it's OK for the vast majority of the time youre ok to leave that pot on. If it comes up no control very often it wants changing, or the cause of the signal fluctuations tracing.
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