What to do next ... ?

[Ikemi]

I'm having some trouble deciding what to do next and was hoping someone might steer me in the right direction. I had planned to extract more power out of the standard K-Series lump, but after attaining a few quotes for the work to be done it seems other cars are in reach! The Duratec conversion, or any other engine conversion is out of the question for the time being ... £7000-9000 is just too much, especially with additional insurance premium for a 23 year old!

I'm really keen on the DVAPower 160bhp kit with an engine rebuild - It's a good price for the work, but I'm concerned about spending such amounts of cash on a high mileage (75,000) engine ... Will it remain reliable?

The cost of the work leads me to think that it might be worth just spending a bit extra and looking for a Sport 160 ... if I can find one! But then the cost of a S160 isn't too far away from a S2 111S! I'm fighting myself

I need to drive the S160 and S2 111S first, but what would you opt for? Vote above!

[Gooby]

The only thing similar to the 111s and S160 is the figure put down on the BHP. Try one...

[kambites]

Ikemi said:

I need to drive the S160 and S2 111S first, but what would you opt for? Vote above!

They are VERY different cars. I would (and did) take the 111S as a daily driver or the S160 as a toy. Which is it going to be?

Edited by kambites on Monday 8th June 13:03

[TIPPER]

75k on a modern engine isn't a great deal if its had regular oil changes is it? I'd have a talk to DVA and see what he says (although I should imagine it would be difficult to comment until said engine is opened up.
Given your age, however, I reckon its unlikely that your going to want to hold onto your S1 for many, many more years so selling your car and buying a Sport 160 may make more financial sense. You may well need to buy a runabout as well though.
Try a Sport 160 and S2 111S and see what you think is best for you.

[The Bandit]

There should be a DIY 2.0 Duratec 190bhp on the market soon for around £3.5k or i believe Sinclaires conversion 'should' come it at around £5k.
Im sure someone can confirm Sincs prices,Fatwomble?
If i had an S1 i would be raiding the piggy bank already

[kambites]

The Bandit said:

There should be a DIY 2.0 Duratec 190bhp on the market soon for around £3.5k or i believe Sinclaires conversion 'should' come it at around £5k.
Im sure someone can confirm Sincs prices,Fatwomble?
If i had an S1 i would be raiding the piggy bank already

If that really comes in at 3.5k for a relatively easy DIY conversion, I'll be very tempted.

[Ikemi]

The Bandit said:

There should be a DIY 2.0 Duratec 190bhp on the market soon for around £3.5k or i believe Sinclaires conversion 'should' come it at around £5k.
Im sure someone can confirm Sincs prices,Fatwomble?
If i had an S1 i would be raiding the piggy bank already

I have some prices The cost of the kit is £3.7K, sourcing a new Duratec engine is £2K and installation is £995 plus VAT @ 15% ... I'm not particularly mechanically minded, so I doubt I'd be able to do the install myself, although I could save money by finding an engine off eBay.

I guess it's a lot of money to throw into the S1 (Including rise in insurance premium!), which if I did keep I'd like to spend some cash on new alloys (Victories or Compomotive Mo), new seats (Corbeau Le-Pro) and other little things + DVA tuning The S2 111S or Sport160 wouldn't require the little additions and would still be pretty quick for the same or less than a Duratec conversion ...

I might try a 111S tonight, a Sport160 soon or take a trip to DVA

Cheers for the comments! Sorry if I sound snappy (I do in my head at least), it's been a rough day.

[Ikemi]

I test drove a S2 111S last night ... Now if I said that the power delivery seemed very civil and that my S1 felt faster and more abrupt, would I be right in thinking this 111S was a bit of a lemon? I'm going to test drive a few more S2 111S cars at the weekend to see if this is the case - It was an excellent drive and in most instances miles ahead of the S1. However the power delivery didn't seem to reflect the 160bhp and additional weight, not compared to my standard S1.

Eek?

[kambites]

No I'd agree with that. A standard S1 feels quicker than an S2 111S. It isn't though.

I think it's a combination of the shape of the torque curve (the 111S's is extremely flat) and the extra sound deadening, better suspension, etc. It's only once you get into third gear that the 111S start to feel a lot quicker than the standard K-series.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 10th June 13:34

[RobM77]

Many of the journos said at the release of the S2 111S that it didn't feel any quicker than the standard car, even though it was. The S2 111S was designed as a civil and useable daily driver, and I think if the OP's trading up for more performance they'll be dissapointed. I'd recommend a Sport 160 to the OP really, a pre-converted S2 160 (I've test driven one and seen a few about).

[Scuffers]

RobM77 said:

Many of the journos said at the release of the S2 111S that it didn't feel any quicker than the standard car, even though it was. The S2 111S was designed as a civil and useable daily driver, and I think if the OP's trading up for more performance they'll be dissapointed. I'd recommend a Sport 160 to the OP really, a pre-converted S2 160 (I've test driven one and seen a few about).

never understood this...

S2 111S is probably the best version of the K out of the box, compared to the Sport 160, it's streets ahead in the drive ability and general in-traffic behaviour, Sport 160 engines were (IMHO) some of the worst built and mapped K's there were.

[dom180]

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

Many of the journos said at the release of the S2 111S that it didn't feel any quicker than the standard car, even though it was. The S2 111S was designed as a civil and useable daily driver, and I think if the OP's trading up for more performance they'll be dissapointed. I'd recommend a Sport 160 to the OP really, a pre-converted S2 160 (I've test driven one and seen a few about).

never understood this...

S2 111S is probably the best version of the K out of the box, compared to the Sport 160, it's streets ahead in the drive ability and general in-traffic behaviour, Sport 160 engines were (IMHO) some of the worst built and mapped K's there were.

S2 111S didn't get the close ratio gear-box that the standard S2/135 got - made a big difference to the drivability of the car imho (and I stress the word "my" here!) - I liked the S1 111S but found the S2 111S quite disappointing and personally preferred either the standard car, or the 111R.

[Scuffers]

dom180 said:

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

Many of the journos said at the release of the S2 111S that it didn't feel any quicker than the standard car, even though it was. The S2 111S was designed as a civil and useable daily driver, and I think if the OP's trading up for more performance they'll be dissapointed. I'd recommend a Sport 160 to the OP really, a pre-converted S2 160 (I've test driven one and seen a few about).

never understood this...

S2 111S is probably the best version of the K out of the box, compared to the Sport 160, it's streets ahead in the drive ability and general in-traffic behaviour, Sport 160 engines were (IMHO) some of the worst built and mapped K's there were.

S2 111S didn't get the close ratio gear-box that the standard S2/135 got - made a big difference to the drivability of the car imho (and I stress the word "my" here!) - I liked the S1 111S but found the S2 111S quite disappointing and personally preferred either the standard car, or the 111R.

don't disagree about the CR box, I was commenting on the engines, ie. vvc vs. 160.

[dom180]

Scuffers said:

dom180 said:

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

Many of the journos said at the release of the S2 111S that it didn't feel any quicker than the standard car, even though it was. The S2 111S was designed as a civil and useable daily driver, and I think if the OP's trading up for more performance they'll be dissapointed. I'd recommend a Sport 160 to the OP really, a pre-converted S2 160 (I've test driven one and seen a few about).

never understood this...

S2 111S is probably the best version of the K out of the box, compared to the Sport 160, it's streets ahead in the drive ability and general in-traffic behaviour, Sport 160 engines were (IMHO) some of the worst built and mapped K's there were.

S2 111S didn't get the close ratio gear-box that the standard S2/135 got - made a big difference to the drivability of the car imho (and I stress the word "my" here!) - I liked the S1 111S but found the S2 111S quite disappointing and personally preferred either the standard car, or the 111R.

don't disagree about the CR box, I was commenting on the engines, ie. vvc vs. 160.

Yep, I was replying to both you/Rob really and Rob's journo impressions quote on the performance of the car.

I've seen a couple of 160s up close and they didn't idle well/pickup from low speeds and the owner admits that it is quite characterful!

[RobM77]

dom180 said:

Scuffers said:

dom180 said:

Scuffers said:

RobM77 said:

Many of the journos said at the release of the S2 111S that it didn't feel any quicker than the standard car, even though it was. The S2 111S was designed as a civil and useable daily driver, and I think if the OP's trading up for more performance they'll be dissapointed. I'd recommend a Sport 160 to the OP really, a pre-converted S2 160 (I've test driven one and seen a few about).

never understood this...

S2 111S is probably the best version of the K out of the box, compared to the Sport 160, it's streets ahead in the drive ability and general in-traffic behaviour, Sport 160 engines were (IMHO) some of the worst built and mapped K's there were.

S2 111S didn't get the close ratio gear-box that the standard S2/135 got - made a big difference to the drivability of the car imho (and I stress the word "my" here!) - I liked the S1 111S but found the S2 111S quite disappointing and personally preferred either the standard car, or the 111R.

don't disagree about the CR box, I was commenting on the engines, ie. vvc vs. 160.

Yep, I was replying to both you/Rob really and Rob's journo impressions quote on the performance of the car.

I've seen a couple of 160s up close and they didn't idle well/pickup from low speeds and the owner admits that it is quite characterful!

Oh yes, I agree completely. I love the VVC engine and have had it in my S2 111S and a Caterham now. I was just echoing the comments of journos. I've never driven a standard S2 one-up, so I can't comment myself.