Front Tie Bars/Rods
Discussion
As the search isn’t working at the moment, I’ll just have to ask!
Having rebuilt the front suspension how do you set up the tie rods which go from the lower wishbones back to the chassis? Do you nip them up where the rest or do they need to be a certain length? The car is a 1982 Tasmin 200 FHC.
Also does anyone know the toe in?
Thanks in advance. BDL
Having rebuilt the front suspension how do you set up the tie rods which go from the lower wishbones back to the chassis? Do you nip them up where the rest or do they need to be a certain length? The car is a 1982 Tasmin 200 FHC.
Also does anyone know the toe in?
Thanks in advance. BDL
.. also called 'radius arms'?
When I did my big bushes I left the inner nut alone on the bar or screwed it in a set counted number of turns then reset it to what it was after the bushes were on. But I guess it's too late for that now?
My guess is that you set it to just about nip the bushes when the wheels are level and on the ground, then do it up equally on both sides to squish them a bit? It would seem reasonable that this bar would be neither under tension or compression when the car is on the ground, but hopefully someone will now chime in with the correct procedure!!!
When I did my big bushes I left the inner nut alone on the bar or screwed it in a set counted number of turns then reset it to what it was after the bushes were on. But I guess it's too late for that now?
My guess is that you set it to just about nip the bushes when the wheels are level and on the ground, then do it up equally on both sides to squish them a bit? It would seem reasonable that this bar would be neither under tension or compression when the car is on the ground, but hopefully someone will now chime in with the correct procedure!!!
The tie bars set the castor angle, so should be set as part of a full geo. set up following a rebuild.
To get an initial setting, use the wheelbase dimension. Be sure front wheels are centred and measue rim to rim - a lot easier than trying to measure from wheel centres.
If the setting is out you may get tyre rub on the wheel arch.
r's
David
To get an initial setting, use the wheelbase dimension. Be sure front wheels are centred and measue rim to rim - a lot easier than trying to measure from wheel centres.
If the setting is out you may get tyre rub on the wheel arch.
r's
David
adam quantrill said:
.. also called 'radius arms'?
[rant on]LOL, it's frustrating isn't it? My "tie rod" is your "track arm". Your "leading link" (or tie arm) is my "radius arm", your "lower front wishbone" is my "lower control arm" (A-arm in the rear) and on it goes.
No wonder when I call Douglas Valley breakers they have no clue what I'm talking about!
G-damned North Americans and their b
dised english! Actually, the reverse is true, the English are as bad or worse. I went and looked up "bushing". (what you'd call a 'bush') The etemology of "bushing" is BRITISH! Yet you damned limeys choose to confound the rest of the world by naming something one thing, then in private calling it another!
[/rant off]
Big Daft Lad said:
Having rebuilt the front suspension...
...how do you set up the tie rods which go from the lower wishbones back to the chassis?
...how do you set up the tie rods which go from the lower wishbones back to the chassis?
You didn't even PAINT or COUNT the threads before you took it off?
I'm sorry, this is meant a constructive criticism, but that's the FIRST thing you should do before a wrench or a socket ever touches ANYTHING suspension/steering related.
If you count the threads and set things up as they were you can at least get the car accurate enough to drive to an alignment shop.
Edited by Brap_Brap on Friday 12th June 11:18
Jing fella, that’s quite a burst of indignation you’ve got there…I’m just asking for some help!
The tie rods I’m asking about are the diagonal ones (lower wishbone to chassis) with the donut bushes in the chassis. The reason I didn’t measure, mark or count turns was there wasn’t any bushes in there, so it didn’t seem helpful to know the setting for that!
I think I’ll go with djc100’s wheelbase setting and see how that goes. Thanks
The tie rods I’m asking about are the diagonal ones (lower wishbone to chassis) with the donut bushes in the chassis. The reason I didn’t measure, mark or count turns was there wasn’t any bushes in there, so it didn’t seem helpful to know the setting for that!
I think I’ll go with djc100’s wheelbase setting and see how that goes. Thanks
carob said:
Are we going to see you at the wedge fest Roy.
Rob
Rob, I can’t make the BBWF as I’ve got a wedding to go to – not happy about it, but hey that’s life. But at least the car should be on the road again very soon. Thanks again Rob and JR for the parts. JR you've not been forgotten about, I've just been busy! Sorry.Rob
Big Daft Lad said:
I think I’ll go with djc100’s wheelbase setting and see how that goes. Thanks again Rob and JR for the parts. JR you've not been forgotten about, I've just been busy! Sorry.
Hi, that's OK. I get slower as the years go by.I've been thinking about djc100's comment and have my reservations. It's a good starting point but I think that other dimensions need to be checked as well since it relies on the rear suspension being spot on. Roughly the wheels need to be parallel to the centreline of the chassis but angled in towards the front number plate very slightly, maybe by about 1 or 2mm (does anyone have this dim to hand?) I have seen Wedges with the bar tightened so much that the gap between the tyre and the front of the front wheel arch was almost nil with horrendous results. It's going to be difficult to do without accurate alignment gear. If doing it yourself I think that spirit levels and timber jigs will be required.
I'm still confused by the postings above. I always thought the caster angle was the angle that the steering swivel makes with the vertical. I don't see how measuring the wheel can reveal that angle, surely you have to look at where the contact patch is on the road and/or measure the line through the top and bottom ball joints. (Or whatever they are called in the USA ;^)
Doesn't the caster angle mainly affect how the steering unwinds?
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle for a diagram.
Doesn't the caster angle mainly affect how the steering unwinds?
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle for a diagram.
adam quantrill said:
I'm still confused by the postings above. I always thought the caster angle was the angle that the steering swivel makes with the vertical. I don't see how measuring the wheel can reveal that angle, surely you have to look at where the contact patch is on the road and/or measure the line through the top and bottom ball joints. (Or whatever they are called in the USA ;^)
Doesn't the caster angle mainly affect how the steering unwinds?
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle for a diagram.
I think the overall post has got ba bit confused.Doesn't the caster angle mainly affect how the steering unwinds?
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle for a diagram.
Front camber is not adjustable with standard Wedge (Cortina) wishbones. It sould be 0.0 to 0.5deg neg.
Toe-in is adjustable via the steering track rod ends and should be circa 30mins (approx 3mm)
Castor (3.5 to 4.0 deg pos) which as suggested affects straight line / turn in / unwind is adjustable via the tie bars. It is very difficult to measure the angle without proper geo gear and if the original tie bar settings have been 'lost' one way to get an initial setting, which should not be too far away, is to use the wheelbase dimension. As per my original reply, I emphasise this is only an initial setting which should be folowed by a full geo set up.
I can only say it worked in my case and gave a surprisingly close result.
r's
David
adam quantrill said:
OK so far so good.
So I'd like to know how much the adjuster nuts affect the castor angle.
E.g. does one turn of the nuts clockwise give (say) half a degree increase in castor?
It would be useful to know what the effect is.
Have you forgotten your schoolboy maths? A tape measure, half an hour of time and SOHCAHTOA should get you the answer So I'd like to know how much the adjuster nuts affect the castor angle.
E.g. does one turn of the nuts clockwise give (say) half a degree increase in castor?
It would be useful to know what the effect is.
leorest said:
Have you forgotten your schoolboy maths? A tape measure, half an hour of time and SOHCAHTOA should get you the answer
No Leo, I have not, except the bit where I did double integration ;^)Say this radius arm thingy adjusts the castor angle. Presumably it does it by pulling on the bottom wishbone, leaving the top one fairly unaffected. I could take a guess that shortening this arm will increase the castor angle, but the does increase per turn of the nut just depend on the ratio of the pitch of the screw on the bar and the height of the top ball joint above the bottom ball joint?
P.S. My maths indicates it's your round next at the bar at BBWF ;^)
adam quantrill said:
No Leo, I have not, except the bit where I did double integration ;^)
Say this radius arm thingy adjusts the castor angle. Presumably it does it by pulling on the bottom wishbone, leaving the top one fairly unaffected. I could take a guess that shortening this arm will increase the castor angle, but the does increase per turn of the nut just depend on the ratio of the pitch of the screw on the bar and the height of the top ball joint above the bottom ball joint?
P.S. My maths indicates it's your round next at the bar at BBWF ;^)
I think that's a reasonably close assumption and would certainly be good enough to work with.Say this radius arm thingy adjusts the castor angle. Presumably it does it by pulling on the bottom wishbone, leaving the top one fairly unaffected. I could take a guess that shortening this arm will increase the castor angle, but the does increase per turn of the nut just depend on the ratio of the pitch of the screw on the bar and the height of the top ball joint above the bottom ball joint?
P.S. My maths indicates it's your round next at the bar at BBWF ;^)
P.S. Unfortunately I'm not at WF this year but I hope to catch up with you all at the next one.
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