Koenigsegg to buy Saab
Discussion
V8TVR1978 said:
Which company will influence the other the most?
Neither. Once will carry on making bonkers cars as a sideline to being massively rich, and the other will carry on making slightly bland saloons that aren't quite as good as BMWs. The only hope is that Saab will go back to the they were before they had 7th dibs at the GM parts bin.Once the papers are all signed and ownershiped changed, I will let the Spousal Unit loose on test driving a new Saab. Should be an interesting partnership. Which company will influence the other the most??????????
Hoping Penske comes through with the Saturn deal as our 17 year old daughter just bought a 2009 Vue in January and we were worried abit with what GM was suspected of maybe doing.
But I still believe that did it to themselves. Who is going to bail us poor company owners out when we make a mistake or two in our operations???????? Luckily we personally have been weathering the storm to date with our construction companies but if we ran things into the ground like GM and Chrysler have then we deserve to be put out of business.
Hoping Penske comes through with the Saturn deal as our 17 year old daughter just bought a 2009 Vue in January and we were worried abit with what GM was suspected of maybe doing.
But I still believe that did it to themselves. Who is going to bail us poor company owners out when we make a mistake or two in our operations???????? Luckily we personally have been weathering the storm to date with our construction companies but if we ran things into the ground like GM and Chrysler have then we deserve to be put out of business.
Please let SAAB die with dignity.
This company won't survive without dipping into a major manufacturers parts bin. The volumes are simply too low to compete in their market segment.
A return to more individual cars is also unlikely. Most car companies share so many components, both within and outside their own model ranges, now that individuality is much harder than it once was to design in.
Finally their key product is not the market it once was. Thirty years ago a well designed (longitudinal) front wheel drive plus a turbo was fine in their class. Just the word "Turbo" was once an iconic marketing statement. Who even notices today? Just look at the competition. The mass market products are very close, the premium makes offer rear drive or four wheel drive, even the last quirky make in this segment (Subaru) offers four wheel drive plus an interesting engine. Where will SAAB find the "special" driveline it needs and the quirkiness to regain their segment? They will need both because quirky touches added as an after thought will move the product away from individual to just plain odd for no real reason.
I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it lasting.
This company won't survive without dipping into a major manufacturers parts bin. The volumes are simply too low to compete in their market segment.
A return to more individual cars is also unlikely. Most car companies share so many components, both within and outside their own model ranges, now that individuality is much harder than it once was to design in.
Finally their key product is not the market it once was. Thirty years ago a well designed (longitudinal) front wheel drive plus a turbo was fine in their class. Just the word "Turbo" was once an iconic marketing statement. Who even notices today? Just look at the competition. The mass market products are very close, the premium makes offer rear drive or four wheel drive, even the last quirky make in this segment (Subaru) offers four wheel drive plus an interesting engine. Where will SAAB find the "special" driveline it needs and the quirkiness to regain their segment? They will need both because quirky touches added as an after thought will move the product away from individual to just plain odd for no real reason.
I hope I'm wrong but I can't see it lasting.
cymtriks said:
Please let SAAB die with dignity.
This company won't survive without dipping into a major manufacturers parts bin. The volumes are simply too low to compete in their market segment.
That they were forced into by General Mediocrity. Strange as it may seem now, the 900 Turbo actually competed with the higher end of Mercedes and BMW (T16S Aero won 'Best Director's Car' in one of the big UK mags' polls against the BMW 732i and Jaguar back in 1986, for instance). There's a dearth of credible alternatives for the default Germans these days and as Jaguar's recent successes show you don't need huge parts bin volumes to make inroads on this end of the market. This company won't survive without dipping into a major manufacturers parts bin. The volumes are simply too low to compete in their market segment.
Edited by 900T-R on Friday 12th June 08:27
900T-R said:
cymtriks said:
Please let SAAB die with dignity.
This company won't survive without dipping into a major manufacturers parts bin. The volumes are simply too low to compete in their market segment.
That they were forced into by General Mediocrity. Strange as it may seem now, the 900 Turbo actually competed with the higher end of Mercedes and BMW (T16S Aero won 'Best Director's Car' in one of the big UK mags' polls against the BMW 732i and Jaguar back in 1986, for instance). There's a dearth of credible alternatives for the default Germans these days and as Jaguar's recent successes show you don't need huge parts bin volumes to make inroads on this end of the market. This company won't survive without dipping into a major manufacturers parts bin. The volumes are simply too low to compete in their market segment.
I am certain that some people rated them highly. That however does not justify what you said. I can't remember them being quite in the same league as BMW or Mercedes except where the ranges overlaped at the top of SAAB and the lower end of the other two.
The whole concept is looking worn out. Thirty years ago you could sell in this segment with a front drive turbo four. The very phrase "16valve Turbo" was almost a SAAB advert. Now you need to dip into a big parts bin to compete which means Vectra underpinnings.
Jaguar sell in a class above SAAB and always have done. Unless SAAB reposition themselves, which means a big investment in a Jaguar S type sized car, it won't work and right now they are bust.
Saab may well be in financial trouble, but look at what MG achieved with the X power SV, you never really know unless you have links to the company what they have got in the design stages, also platform sharing is so common now days that initially they just need to develop some USPs that mean SAAB is preferred to the alternatives on the same platform, and SAAB may well just go Turbo and smaller displacement which would probably go down well in the current climate.
cymtriks said:
Jaguar sell in a class above SAAB and always have done.
Not in the '80s. I suggest you read up in contemporary mags both UK and Stateside to see where Saab had successfully positioned itself in that era - 900 Turbos were pitched against 528is and W123 280Es (they cost the same as the latter, too), not 3-series, and vied for the title of 'most expensive 4 cilinder car on the market' with Porsche; 9000 Turbos went head to head with Jag and Mercedes (as a matter of fact Jaguar themselves bought a 900T16S for evaluation purposes and were reported to be suitably impressed). Edited by 900T-R on Saturday 13th June 12:05
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