Discussion
Webber and now Massa have publically voiced their approval of a break away series, along with the FOTA who clearly can not get The Spank to move on his $40M cap.
Sad sad day...
...but maybe it's what F1 needed as those two fools at the helm have done nothing to help the sport over years, more hell bent on lying their pockets and family trusts with billions.
I hope they loose everything, as the only winners will then be the teams, the drivers, the circuits and of course the fans. Please FOTA, start your breakaway by all means, but DON'T bring Bernie with you.
Sad sad day...
...but maybe it's what F1 needed as those two fools at the helm have done nothing to help the sport over years, more hell bent on lying their pockets and family trusts with billions.
I hope they loose everything, as the only winners will then be the teams, the drivers, the circuits and of course the fans. Please FOTA, start your breakaway by all means, but DON'T bring Bernie with you.
As long as there is a 'promotor' who's sole aim is to profit from the series there is going to be a conflict of interest and decisions made to promote cash generation over quality of racing.
It's no coincidence that we have a glut of new Asian and Middle Eastern circuits on the calendar, for example.
It's no coincidence that we have a glut of new Asian and Middle Eastern circuits on the calendar, for example.
And here is the FIA view of things:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
Embarrassing isn't it.
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.p...
Embarrassing isn't it.
I still think that it won't happen, but if TV rights etc were sorted; then I wish it would.
I think that the crux of this split is money, i.e. prize money, circuit fees, TV rights; paddock club etc. The circuits that threw money at Bernie to get a GP, China; Turkey etc are now openly saying they cannot afford it in the future – no one can afford to watch, so less money coming in inevitably means less money has to go out or that WILL upset Bernie and friends.
Under the current agreement Ferrari get £55 million for a WCC - £15 million more than they are now expected to spend, I am sure this is why FOTA need a new Concorde agreement before committing to race in a heavily revised FIA series.
Bernie and Max please go! in football we now have one player equal to the total that you expect McLaren and Ferrari to spend in a year.
I think that the crux of this split is money, i.e. prize money, circuit fees, TV rights; paddock club etc. The circuits that threw money at Bernie to get a GP, China; Turkey etc are now openly saying they cannot afford it in the future – no one can afford to watch, so less money coming in inevitably means less money has to go out or that WILL upset Bernie and friends.
Under the current agreement Ferrari get £55 million for a WCC - £15 million more than they are now expected to spend, I am sure this is why FOTA need a new Concorde agreement before committing to race in a heavily revised FIA series.
Bernie and Max please go! in football we now have one player equal to the total that you expect McLaren and Ferrari to spend in a year.
With both sides so entrenched and no likelihood of suitable mediation, I really cannot see an aceptable resolution to the current impasse.
If FOTA form a breakaway series, what will that give us? It will be the excuse for Renault and Toyota to leave, leaving 12 cars in a series whose governance will be dominated by Ferrari and to a lesser extent McLaren. Red Bull and Brawn will be frozen out and the whole thing will die out after a season or two. The root cause will of course be that the governers of a sport should not be the participants. While we all like to be in a position to make the rules that we play by, the fact is that does not work in any walk of life, rule makers and rule breakers have to be two separate bodies. Someone described it as "putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum."
Meanwhile, F1, a shadow of its former self, will continue to be goverened by the autocracy of the FIA. It wil have healthy grids of 26 cheap cars. The racing will no doubt be exciting but how much of an achievement will winning the championship be perceived to be. And if that perception is low, what is the attraction for the spectators and TV public?
I only hope that after a few years, when the burning embers of F1 are dying out a pheonix will rise from the ashes and we will see the return of proper "Grand Prix" racing with sensible rules, fairly applied.
If FOTA form a breakaway series, what will that give us? It will be the excuse for Renault and Toyota to leave, leaving 12 cars in a series whose governance will be dominated by Ferrari and to a lesser extent McLaren. Red Bull and Brawn will be frozen out and the whole thing will die out after a season or two. The root cause will of course be that the governers of a sport should not be the participants. While we all like to be in a position to make the rules that we play by, the fact is that does not work in any walk of life, rule makers and rule breakers have to be two separate bodies. Someone described it as "putting the lunatics in charge of the asylum."
Meanwhile, F1, a shadow of its former self, will continue to be goverened by the autocracy of the FIA. It wil have healthy grids of 26 cheap cars. The racing will no doubt be exciting but how much of an achievement will winning the championship be perceived to be. And if that perception is low, what is the attraction for the spectators and TV public?
I only hope that after a few years, when the burning embers of F1 are dying out a pheonix will rise from the ashes and we will see the return of proper "Grand Prix" racing with sensible rules, fairly applied.
Edited by profstoff on Tuesday 16th June 16:18
It is worrying.
If FOTA back down then it will be a poor sham of F1. If Mosley backs down then there will be a peiord of flux in the sport. If Fota go for a breakaway then it is a leap into the unknown with two Formula 1 series competing for the same fans. None of the options sounds all that good to me.
Whatever way you argue it, mosley is in charge so is the master of the current debacle. It's not like the bloke in charge of the tube strike, the teams want to race.
It would be stupid of FOTA to play brinkmanship. They must have an alternative. If not, they have committed suicide.
The problem is that Mosley has nothing to lose. If he gives in to FOTA then he's probably out of a job. Even his sycophants won't vote for him after that. So why should he make the effort to compromise.
Mind you, you can read what you like into mosley's assertion of no compromise. He said that before he dropped the two tier system, he repeated it before upping the budget limit and he was singing the same tune when he decided he did not want to send the FiA staff looking into the books of the teams. And didn't he say something about standing fast just before mentioning the concord agreement? It seems such protestations go just before a U turn. So perhaps there will be an offer the teams won't be able to refuse.
So whatever happens it won't be as good as it could have been if mosley had managed things better.
If FOTA back down then it will be a poor sham of F1. If Mosley backs down then there will be a peiord of flux in the sport. If Fota go for a breakaway then it is a leap into the unknown with two Formula 1 series competing for the same fans. None of the options sounds all that good to me.
Whatever way you argue it, mosley is in charge so is the master of the current debacle. It's not like the bloke in charge of the tube strike, the teams want to race.
It would be stupid of FOTA to play brinkmanship. They must have an alternative. If not, they have committed suicide.
The problem is that Mosley has nothing to lose. If he gives in to FOTA then he's probably out of a job. Even his sycophants won't vote for him after that. So why should he make the effort to compromise.
Mind you, you can read what you like into mosley's assertion of no compromise. He said that before he dropped the two tier system, he repeated it before upping the budget limit and he was singing the same tune when he decided he did not want to send the FiA staff looking into the books of the teams. And didn't he say something about standing fast just before mentioning the concord agreement? It seems such protestations go just before a U turn. So perhaps there will be an offer the teams won't be able to refuse.
So whatever happens it won't be as good as it could have been if mosley had managed things better.
The benefit of a breakaway group, would be the potential to run on decent circuits? Provided they could get Spa, plus the other on the 'edge' circuits, Canada and the Ozzy GP, I dont see why they wony be able to do it.
However if some teams decide to do Le Mans/ALMS then there will be a problem.
AG
However if some teams decide to do Le Mans/ALMS then there will be a problem.
AG
patmahe said:
After watching the Moto GP racing at Barcelona last weekend I wonder how they can get it so right (and not just in racing terms) and F1 can get it soooOOOOOooooooo wrong.
What?! Moto Gp's organisers Dorna have been heavily criticised over the past few years for the way its been run: spiralling costs so no-one except big manufacturers can build race bikes, traction control and small engines making most of the racing extremely boring (last race was very much an exceptional event).edit: and the poor racing has led to privately run teams finding it almost impossible to find sponsorship, even though they don't need much compared to F1- Ducati "only" spend around £40million and they're one of the wealthy teams!
If you compare nearly all modern moto gp races with those of about 10-15 years ago you'll realise how downhill its gone, watch BSB or WSB for some real motor racing
Edited by jhcolley on Tuesday 16th June 17:08
Spiritual_Beggar said:
lewis1 said:
maybe we will see some formula ones at silverstone then!
And maybe they can bring back classic GPs, like;Buenos Ares
Estoril
Hockenheim - original layout!
jhcolley said:
patmahe said:
After watching the Moto GP racing at Barcelona last weekend I wonder how they can get it so right (and not just in racing terms) and F1 can get it soooOOOOOooooooo wrong.
What?! Moto Gp's organisers Dorna have been heavily criticised over the past few years for the way its been run: spiralling costs so no-one except big manufacturers can build race bikes, traction control and small engines making most of the racing extremely boring (last race was very much an exceptional event).edit: and the poor racing has led to privately run teams finding it almost impossible to find sponsorship, even though they don't need much compared to F1- Ducati "only" spend around £40million and they're one of the wealthy teams!
If you compare nearly all modern moto gp races with those of about 10-15 years ago you'll realise how downhill its gone, watch BSB or WSB for some real motor racing
Edited by jhcolley on Tuesday 16th June 17:08
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