In honour of the Big Man, tried to fire up my 350i.

[mike.williams]

Hi all.
I've been a member here in the shadows for a while now, but as my wedge has been sidelined by kids for a few years I have had very little (well nothing really....) to contribute.
With the terrible news this week of my 350's makers passing, I was stirred into action to honour the Big Man. Alas, and some may say aptly, my efforts to raise the sleeping beast have failed.
So, it is with some shame, that in one of my first posts I am on the take..... well, looking for expert help!
I have regularly fired up my car and let it warm up/fan kick in etc over its hibernation (on trickle charger) but now I can't get it started. I've got good sparks, freshish fuel, fast turnover (good battery) but no smell of fuel or any indication of an attempt to fireup. I've disconnected the fuel pump (my Suspected part) and connected it to the battery and it runs, but with the ignition on I get no whirring sounds so I'm assuming wiring..... I've swapped some relays about with no change and no volts across the terminals at the pump (with them disconnected, ignition on).
Out of interest I checked the return wire at the pump and it is less than an ohm to earth. Good stuff... I then checked +ve to -ve wires and was very surprised to read 33ohms..?...(with ignition off!...)
Not good I thought, +ve chaffed somewhere to earth.. so checked the +ve to earth and I don't get the same result...
I've switched off the immoboliser by key.. and in fact disconnected it from the car and the readings remain the same.
Now having been under/over the car for a few hours, the BOSS is starting to remind me why it has been in hibernation!! Kids need....
So any ideas or pointers? all hints gratefully received.
Cheers, Mike

[pwd95]

The fuel pump won't prime with just the ignition on, you'll need to push the flap inside the air flow meter with the ignition on (take the plenum hose off & put your hand in from that side). That will/should activate the pump. If it doesn't then you'll know there's no power going to it. I had the same symptoms with my old 450 & it turned out to be a damaged wire near the pump just in front of the rear wheel.

[CarbonWedge]

When mine had been sat for a while, a couple of the relays got stuck, they looked like original ones too - might be worth a look if the pushing the flap doesn't operate the pump.

[mike.williams]

Thanks guys, I'll check that out later, I have inspected the wiring from where it comes out of the body to the pump and short of unwrapping it, I am content it is in good condition (no kinks,abrasions etc..)
Cheers, Mike

[Wedg1e]

If I understand your diagnostics, the 33 ohms you measured is the resistance of the motor winding inside the fuel pump.

As said above, if you disconnect the air hose from the airflow meter and poke two fingers in with the ignition on, the fuel pump should start up. It's unlikely that the pump has failed because when they do they usually draw excess current and start popping fuses.

If you pull the fuel pump relay you can insert a link wire into the socket terminals (30 and 87), this will run the pump as long as the ignition's on.

Have you also tried the 'flicking throttle test'? With ignition on, you flick the throttle open and closed quickly; you should hear a pronounced click as all 8 injectors fire simultaneously. If it's not doing this, you MIGHT have a suspect ECU.

[JR]

As an aside did you know that the TVR parts guy was called Mike Williams?

and is this the same guy? http://www.thegriffithpages.com/news/latest/sportm...
it's a big co-incidence if not.

[mike.williams]

Wedg1e,
just read my post again, poorly described by me.... the 33ohms was on the wiring not the pump terminals..
I've opened up the butterfly (it was moving freely anyway when turning over the car..) and I could hear the relay clicking! Good spot! cheers.
So I refitted the immoboliser (some green contacts cleaned....maybe the 33 0hms was in there....) then checked for volts under the car (Ignition on, butterfly open) and I have just under 10volts. result! maybe the dirty contacts I think to myself. So with the pump reconnected i tried again, I can hear the pump whirring away, body gets quite warm, hear fuel running through the pipework, great.. try for the start, nowt...
I'll try for that 8 injectors at once when I can later, that is, after about 5 hours of (watching) badminton.
thanks for all the help!
p.s. different Mike Williams I'm affraid, very boring name, nightmare with agencies for work, and a real pain in the behind with credit agencies... seems if you have the same name as me and live within 25 miles of chester i get linked to their financial woes.....
anyway enough of that, thanks again, will update asap.
Mike

[mike.williams]

Hi All,
I've tried Wedg1e's injector check and I can hear the injectors all click if I rapidly move the throttle, but not if I do it very gently. So I shall assume, for now, that the ECU is OK (thankfully..)
So it's back to square one, Wedge will not start, good sparks, fuel flowing, good battery....
I will check all the plugs again to insure they haven't fouled up with all the failed turning over.
Any other suggestions?
Cheers, Mike

[adam quantrill]

The clicking is totally normal.

Sis you check the park on the king (middle) lead or at the end of one that plugs into the spark plug?

[mike.williams]

Hi Adam, I checked for spark at No.7 plug lead, I just removed the lead and used a spare plug against the block

[Wedg1e]

mike.williams said:

Hi All,
I've tried Wedg1e's injector check and I can hear the injectors all click if I rapidly move the throttle, but not if I do it very gently. So I shall assume, for now, that the ECU is OK (thankfully..)
So it's back to square one, Wedge will not start, good sparks, fuel flowing, good battery....
I will check all the plugs again to insure they haven't fouled up with all the failed turning over.
Any other suggestions?
Cheers, Mike

Ype, sounds right for the 'tick' test
The ECUs rarely fail completely, it's usually just one or more 'dry' solder joints; if you're halfway competent with a soldering iron you can reflow the whole of both boards in less than an hour. Having repaired several ECUs for other people I got caught out when mine decided to go wonky at Wedgefest '06 causing the car to have worse fuel economy than Concorde - it would only run anywhere near properly with half the injectors unplugged.

I'd try disconnecting the trigger wire from the ignition amplifier (bullet connector in white/black wire, usually found somewhere around the air filter), then whip the cold start injector off and pour a couple of capfuls (say 4 or 5 tablespoons) of petrol into the plenum. Replace CSI and crank over. If the sparks are right there'll be enough fuel flashing off in the plenum to make it at least cough and splutter... if it won't do that then it may be your sparks are just not fat enough under load. Might be worth checking the daft stuff, like the distributor advance/retard vacuum mech isn't stuck etc... probably wouldn't prevent the engine starting but you never know.

[mike.williams]

Thanks again Wedg1e.
I have had another look at the car, and I was wrong about the fuel....
Your last post jogged me into action, I took the fuel hose off the cold start injector and turned over the car (hose into a bucket..)NO FUEL, not a drop...
So back to my original suspect I think.... the pump must be jammed up, that'll explain the warm body, but I did think I could hear fuel flowing......

I have also noticed that the 8 injector check was not quite as successful as I thought. No.1 + 2 aren't opening with the rest.... So as each injector is fired from the ECU independantly, looks like I will get a chance to exercise my reasonable soldering skills I think....
many thanks again to all so far,
Mike

Edited by mike.williams on Tuesday 23 June 23:24

[grahamw48]

I thought they were fired in alternate banks.

[mike.williams]

Hi Graham, even if they are, these two aren't getting involved when it's their turn!

[Wedg1e]

mike.williams said:

I have also noticed that the 8 injector check was not quite as successful as I thought. No.1 + 2 aren't opening with the rest.... So as each injector is fired from the ECU independantly, looks like I will get a chance to exercise my reasonable soldering skills I think....
many thanks again to all so far,
Mike

Mike:
How have you arrived at that conclusion?

There are a couple of possibilities: firstly the Bosch injector connectors don't like being snapped on and off repeatedly, eventually the spring contacts inside refuse to bite on the injector terminals. You can sometimes tease them back into life with the usual surgical instruments
Failing that, Vehicle Wiring Products sell the connectors (or at any rate a copy thereof) - in fact they used to sell every connector for the injection loom bar the big one that fits the ECU... and even then they did sell the terminals for it so you could reuse the shell. The only connector they'd stopped selling last time I checked was the 3-pin one that fits the throttle pot. I made a new loom a few years back, cost about £60 altogether (and it's 4 feet shorter than the original!) but worth it for the peace of mind.
The other possibility is that with the car standing, the injectors have siezed. Have seen this a few times now, you can often unstick them but sometimes replacement is the only option. I start my car every couple of weeks whilst it's laid up and haven't had the problem... yet!
Sounds like your fuel pump may be toast; they can pull over 10A stall current. It may respond to the reverse/forward/reverse/forward polarity trick though.

[mike.williams]

[quote=Wedg1e][quote=mike.williams]

I have also noticed that the 8 injector check was not quite as successful as I thought. No.1 + 2 aren't opening with the rest....
Mike:
How have you arrived at that conclusion?

Wedg1e,
I can feel each injector solenoid through the injector body as I move the throttle, 1 + 2 are doing nothing..

[rev-erend]

Mike

2 more things for you to try..

First, the fuel pump cutoff impact switch - make sure the plunger on top is pushed down .. it's mounted on the front bulkhead in the engine bay.

Next - give the fuel pump a smart tap .. not with a 4 lbs club hammer though. That may help to dislodge it.

[mike.williams]

Thanks rev-erend,
I have already given it a helpful tap or two with no result. What does this impact switch look like? is it in the fuel line or is it electrical? If its electrical I can rule it out as I have approx 10 volts at the pump....
Following on from a previous post, I have injected 20ml of fuel via the cold start injector housing and the old girl burst into life (briefly...) so I am now confident enough to look for a new pump and see what happens.... maybe a rising rate regulator at the same time...mmm
many thanks again, Mike

[jmorgan]

It was recommended to me to test the pump with a bulb. That is making sure the supply is at the pump at least by putting a suitable lamp across it. I have now wired in a connecter that meets the wiring at the pump and the connector is under the dash. I pop a bulb in to the holder if I think there is an issue and at least I know the supply is good/bad.

[mike.williams]

What a good idea, certainly beats getting under the car with a meter, I could imagine a whole bank of LED's for different things round the car, it would be like a continual BITE check!! dream....
cheers, Mike