Hiring a Lens

[leightonjames]

Hi everybody, hope your all ok!

Im considering hiring a lens for this years Royal International Air Tattoo. I have a dilemma however! Should I go for a 100-400L or a 400L prime. Has anybody tried shooting an air show with such a long prime? Would I need to zoom out?

Thanks in advance,

Leighton

[4hero]

Hi Leighton,

Not used a 400 prime, but did use my 100-400 and 70-200f2.8 at Leuchars last year. The 100-400 is superb for what you need, and the zoom was used lots

[LongQ]

What 4hero said.

The 400L is a great lens by all accounts but I have rarely heard of any serious complaints from 100-400 users and the images I have seen have been excellent.

FWIW I have an elderly non EOS 600mm L lens (manual focus) and when I get it right it produces excellent results BUT even if it had AF there would still be some usage constraints due to the very narrow angle of view and to some extent this would be an issue even with 400. The zoom gives you flexibility to get the shot you want without compromising the max length you are shooting at. You still get your 400 when you need it.

I would imagine it may be cheaper to hire and certainly any deposit expected is likely to be more affordable.

The only downside is the smaller max aperture but I would doubt if this would be an unsurmountable issue for you.

HTH.

[smack]

LongQ said:

The 400L is a great lens by all accounts but I have rarely heard of any serious complaints from 100-400 users and the images I have seen have been excellent.

FWIW I have an elderly non EOS 600mm L lens (manual focus) and when I get it right it produces excellent results BUT even if it had AF there would still be some usage constraints due to the very narrow angle of view and to some extent this would be an issue even with 400. The zoom gives you flexibility to get the shot you want without compromising the max length you are shooting at. You still get your 400 when you need it.

I would imagine it may be cheaper to hire and certainly any deposit expected is likely to be more affordable.

The only downside is the smaller max aperture but I would doubt if this would be an unsurmountable issue for you.

Which 400L?

The 5.6L prime is a good lens, and will kill the 100-400 for sharpness - review:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/f...

But 2.8L is rated as one of the finest lenses Canon has made. But it is big and heavy (heaviest lens they make, a tad more than the 600L, close to 6kg), and best used in Al Servo AF mode due to the narrow DOF.

I'd consider hiring mine out....

[LongQ]

smack said:

Which 400L?

Good point but I was thinking the 2.8 version on the basis that from a quick check of the Rental list documents for 3 possible sources, 2 listed the 2.8 and not the slower version and one offered the DO lens rather than the L.

You are right to mention weight as well. My old FD mount 600 is probably a reasonable substitute for the weight and size factors and hand holding is hardly an option on the basis of weight alone - unless built like an ox.

I'm not sure I would feel confortable using it on a monopod. Not without a lot of practice. But then I'm not fond of monopods anyway.

On a tripod with a standard sort of head it's usable for ground shots but I suspect it would be a whole lot better fitted to a gimbal head. However I would imagine that hand holding and being able to zoom in on the subject from a wider view is likely to give a better overall hit rate. Especially when shooting without a lot of prior experience with the combination chosen.

I could be wrong though so will be interested to see how things work out for you Leighton.

[jon-]

Slightly OT, but I just googled Gimbal Head to see what it was.



Now that's a MANS setup

[smack]

LongQ said:

Good point but I was thinking the 2.8 version on the basis that from a quick check of the Rental list documents for 3 possible sources, 2 listed the 2.8 and not the slower version and one offered the DO lens rather than the L.

I didn't mention the DO lens, as I have never seen one apart from in Yodobashi in Tokyo. It is lighter than a 300 2.8, 1940g v's 2550g, and gets some good reports. Again, tests prove it to be sharper than a zoom.

LongQ said:

You are right to mention weight as well. My old FD mount 600 is probably a reasonable substitute for the weight and size factors and hand holding is hardly an option on the basis of weight alone - unless built like an ox.

I'm not sure I would feel confortable using it on a monopod. Not without a lot of practice. But then I'm not fond of monopods anyway.

It can be hand held with practice, but at an air show up at the sky... good luck! And again, a monopod to shoot planes is asking a bit too much... Really need a tripod and good gimbal head in that situation for a big prime.

[LongQ]

smack said:

LongQ said:

Good point but I was thinking the 2.8 version on the basis that from a quick check of the Rental list documents for 3 possible sources, 2 listed the 2.8 and not the slower version and one offered the DO lens rather than the L.

I didn't mention the DO lens, as I have never seen one apart from in Yodobashi in Tokyo. It is lighter than a 300 2.8, 1940g v's 2550g, and gets some good reports. Again, tests prove it to be sharper than a zoom.

I must say I was surprised to see it offered.

I have the 70-300 DO lens picked up used a few months ago. It has a few issues for what I originally wanted to use it for but the relatively small size was a key factor. It can be a little unusual in its results from time to time but by and large I rather like it and the look it presents.

smack said:

LongQ said:

You are right to mention weight as well. My old FD mount 600 is probably a reasonable substitute for the weight and size factors and hand holding is hardly an option on the basis of weight alone - unless built like an ox.

I'm not sure I would feel confortable using it on a monopod. Not without a lot of practice. But then I'm not fond of monopods anyway.

It can be hand held with practice, but at an air show up at the sky... good luck! And again, a monopod to shoot planes is asking a bit too much... Really need a tripod and good gimbal head in that situation for a big prime.

Practice and weight lifting training for the 600! Yes I have seen people shooting that size lens hand held at race circuits but not often. On problem is that the 600, being an FD mount with an adapter on a 1.6 crop factor body makes something like a 1000,, equivalent since the adapter adds a little as well. It's very tricky keeping that sort of FoV anywhere near the target subject let alone think of composing a shot. And of course mani is manual focus which adds to the fun. A little less problematic with an EOS AF mount but large biceps and a strong back still useful assets.

[leightonjames]

Thanks ever so much for the comments everybody! I think im leaning towards the 100-400, only due to the fact that I would hate to hire a lens out and have to swap it for something rubbish like the 70-250 just so I can get the whole jet in etc.

Now the question, where to hire from, the 400L prime in total is about 65 pounds and the 100-400L is slightly over 70. It seems a lot for a couple of days hire, then again there is no alternative, camerent seems to be one of the most hated companies around!

Cheers again,

Leighton

[nick_bbb]

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/

[leightonjames]

nick_bbb said:

http://www.lensesforhire.co.uk/

Ooops! forgot to mention that's what I was looking at, I'm just surprised there is not a competitor, I'm also gutted that I don't live near Maidenhead because it would effectively be half price!

Leighton

[Famous Graham]

What he said. Excellent service.

For what it's worth, I shot most of my airshow stuff with a 400L (the 5.6). Loved it.

However, a guy I used to know from another forum, used a 100-400 almost exclusively and there wasn't much in it. To him - he was better than me

Couple of examples from my 400L (all from RIAT 06) uncropped and from the front of the crowdline, about 3/4 the way down (to the left of the tower).













The only thing against it was, even at RIAT, if you're at the crowdline, some of the displays can be a little too close for you to want to be at 400, to the flexibility of the 100-400 probably wins over the "pureness" of the prime.

[LongQ]

leightonjames said:

Now the question, where to hire from, the 400L prime in total is about 65 pounds and the 100-400L is slightly over 70. It seems a lot for a couple of days hire, then again there is no alternative, camerent seems to be one of the most hated companies around!

Cheers again,

Leighton

Well, let's see ...

The Flash Centre are an option - believe it or not from the name. Good guys.

Calumet do hire nationwide.

Jacobs also do hire nationwide with some local(ish) pickup options at some locations. (Depends where you are relative to their larger stores.)

All the above have PDF docs for both their hire kit and terms anf conditions on line.

Bear in mind that many will require a deposit that could be as much as the value of the lens and that the deposit is often required in the form of a credit card swipe, though I guess cash would do as well ...

However you may wish to consider what to do about a 'familiarisation period' with the kit (any kit) since if ot is something you have not used before there is a good chance that you will end up spending a lot of time finding out what it does and where the useful controls are as well as waving it around looking for subjects to frame. Could be whole day gone before you really start to get up to speed.

Just a thought.

[leightonjames]

LongQ said:

leightonjames said:

Now the question, where to hire from, the 400L prime in total is about 65 pounds and the 100-400L is slightly over 70. It seems a lot for a couple of days hire, then again there is no alternative, camerent seems to be one of the most hated companies around!

Cheers again,

Leighton

Well, let's see ...

The Flash Centre are an option - believe it or not from the name. Good guys.

Calumet do hire nationwide.

Jacobs also do hire nationwide with some local(ish) pickup options at some locations. (Depends where you are relative to their larger stores.)

All the above have PDF docs for both their hire kit and terms anf conditions on line.

Bear in mind that many will require a deposit that could be as much as the value of the lens and that the deposit is often required in the form of a credit card swipe, though I guess cash would do as well ...

However you may wish to consider what to do about a 'familiarisation period' with the kit (any kit) since if ot is something you have not used before there is a good chance that you will end up spending a lot of time finding out what it does and where the useful controls are as well as waving it around looking for subjects to frame. Could be whole day gone before you really start to get up to speed.

Just a thought.

Thanks for your suggestions, I haved looked at all of them and it looks like Lenses for Hire is the only place to go! Calumet has a really weird selection fo equipment to hire in Bristol and the other two places don't look particularly good, I can't seem to find what they offer anywhere?

As for the familiarisation, I am going to hire it for the week end so will give myself the opportunity of testing it on the Saturday, in preparation for the Sunday

Thanks

Leighton

[Andy M]

I've never hired a lens, so I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a deposit equal to the value of the lens had to be paid for rental?

[leightonjames]

Andy M said:

I've never hired a lens, so I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a deposit equal to the value of the lens had to be paid for rental?

Lenses for hire don't require a deposit! One of their top selling points

[LongQ]

leightonjames said:

Andy M said:

I've never hired a lens, so I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a deposit equal to the value of the lens had to be paid for rental?

Lenses for hire don't require a deposit! One of their top selling points

Many places do usually in the form of a credit card swipe that is reversed when the item is returned.

References:

http://www.theflashcentre.com/images/rental_bookle...

http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/downloads/hirelist....

http://www.jacobsdigital.co.uk/downloads/hireterms...

In the latter document have a look at section 14 relating to deposits. I have no idea whether these terms are applied if you hire from Jacobs.

You also should check whether the prices are VAT inclusive.

HTH.

[Andy M]

leightonjames said:

Andy M said:

I've never hired a lens, so I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a deposit equal to the value of the lens had to be paid for rental?

Lenses for hire don't require a deposit! One of their top selling points

Where?

Calumet's policy is that a full deposit is paid, unless you're a long term account holder. I know somebody who had to deposit £8k for a Leaf digital back, and that was at half the normal rate.

[SamHH]

Andy M said:

Where?

The company mentioned above: Lenses for Hire.

[Dogsey]

leightonjames said:

Andy M said:

I've never hired a lens, so I may be misinformed, but I was under the impression that a deposit equal to the value of the lens had to be paid for rental?

Lenses for hire don't require a deposit! One of their top selling points

I'll be taking delivery of their Nikon 80-400VR tomorrow in preparation for a days wildlife photography on Friday and Biggin Hill air show on Saturday.