Half or full cage ?

[Cotty]

I would like to put together a track day toy. Nothing serious just an E30 325i. I would like to run harnesses and bucket seats. I realise I should have a cage but do I need a full cage or just half (rear) cage?

[T89 Callan]

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

Please note I'm not belittling your car, I have an E30 (only a 320) myself as a track car and will not be fitting a cage. Only if you go for sprints/competition use then fit a cage.

Just my opinion, I expect to get flamed but from many years experience this is the conclusion I have come to. It's a lot of expense, work and weight for something you will never need.

ETA Your Touring looks awesome, mine is never going to look that cool.

Edited by T89 Callan on Tuesday 23 June 23:44

[groomi]

I've been sideways across the grass at both Snetterton and Rockingham. Snettertons grass is rutted and Rockingham has several narrow gravel filled ditches (presumably for drainage or to hide cabling).

Either situation could have caused the sideways travelling car to 'dig in' and roll. It didn't, great. But it could have.

Half Cage would protect you in any simple roll-over incidents and is probably all you need.

PS: Could also add a bit of stiffness to the shell.

[agent006]

You don't need a full cage, but if you're going to the expense of getting a rear one fitted then you may as well have a token front section added.

It's not just rollovers that a rollcage will help you in, they can prevent a lot of deformation of the shell from side impacts too (look at Gary from Northloop's incident at Castle Combe last year for example). I also don't have any cage in my E30, and as such i won't drive certain tracks until i do (Combe, Snetterton etc) as i don't think it's safe enough (and my ego isn't big enough to assume i won't crash).

[Olivera]

T89 Callan said:

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

Please note I'm not belittling your car, I have an E30 (only a 320) myself as a track car and will not be fitting a cage. Only if you go for sprints/competition use then fit a cage.

Just my opinion, I expect to get flamed but from many years experience this is the conclusion I have come to. It's a lot of expense, work and weight for something you will never need.

ETA Your Touring looks awesome, mine is never going to look that cool.

Edited by T89 Callan on Tuesday 23 June 23:44

If your car can attain serious speeds then I'd recommend a rollcage. This is what happened to my garages track car at a recent knockhill trackday - without it the driver would certainly no longer be here:

[bigfatnick]

T89 Callan said:

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

just to balance the argument,

i on the other hand have very little experience of trackdays, and on the first trackday i ever went to (spectating, not driving), i remember a mk1 escort having a very slow roll at the tight end of elvington. that said, i dare say an e30 is wider, i probably wont ever get round to fitting a cage (when i start trackdaying - i was supposted to this year but redundancy put paid to that!) unless i find myself in an open topped car. Cars are fine without cages for the road, if you do roll your car, it'll probably be at low speed in the gravel, not at 50mph on the motorway/80mph on your fave back lane!

[T89 Callan]

Olivera said:

T89 Callan said:

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

Please note I'm not belittling your car, I have an E30 (only a 320) myself as a track car and will not be fitting a cage. Only if you go for sprints/competition use then fit a cage.

Just my opinion, I expect to get flamed but from many years experience this is the conclusion I have come to. It's a lot of expense, work and weight for something you will never need.

ETA Your Touring looks awesome, mine is never going to look that cool.

Edited by T89 Callan on Tuesday 23 June 23:44

If your car can attain serious speeds then I'd recommend a rollcage. This is what happened to my garages track car at a recent knockhill trackday - without it the driver would certainly no longer be here:

Like I said from my experience I don't feel the need for a cage in my track car, it's a personal choice.
I'm pretty sure that you're statistically (yes I hate stats too) more likely to have a big smash on the public road than on a track day but I don't have a cage in my road car.
Swings and roundabouts really.

[T89 Callan]

bigfatnick said:

T89 Callan said:

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

just to balance the argument,

i on the other hand have very little experience of trackdays, and on the first trackday i ever went to (spectating, not driving), i remember a mk1 escort having a very slow roll at the tight end of elvington. that said, i dare say an e30 is wider, i probably wont ever get round to fitting a cage (when i start trackdaying - i was supposted to this year but redundancy put paid to that!) unless i find myself in an open topped car. Cars are fine without cages for the road, if you do roll your car, it'll probably be at low speed in the gravel, not at 50mph on the motorway/80mph on your fave back lane!

Good point, although of two roll-overs I have seen both happened at high speed on the motorway. And I see the aftermath of huge smashes on the single track lanes round here quite often.

[Herman Toothrot]

T89 Callan said:

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

Please note I'm not belittling your car, I have an E30 (only a 320) myself as a track car and will not be fitting a cage. Only if you go for sprints/competition use then fit a cage.

I totally agree. I only run a half cage in my mx5, i did loads of days without even a roof of any kind. The cars I used on track before, MR2's I didn' even entertain the idea of a cage. To crash a car on a track day you have to have done somethign silly, to get it in a situation where the roof may collapse you have to have done something really stupid.

Edited by Herman Toothrot on Wednesday 24th June 00:29

[t11ner]

Both of my track cars have full cages fitted even though I've never had anything worse than an occasional spin in ten years of trackdaying. I just feel more comfortable knowing it's there and with buckets and harnesses the driving is much easier. You probably wouldn't want to go for the seats and harnesses without a cage as you then are held in place and can't move out the way if the car does go over and roof comes in.............

Look at it another way, if it's going to be a car for track use anyway, why take the chance?

Steve H
TA-OL

[Cotty]

t11ner said:

You probably wouldn't want to go for the seats and harnesses without a cage as you then are held in place and can't move out the way if the car does go over and roof comes in.............

Look at it another way, if it's going to be a car for track use anyway, why take the chance?

Well that is the point. I already have the harnesses and want to get proper seats, so the cage is the next step.

[lazyitus]

If you can afford it, get half or full - whatever suits your pocket.

As mentioned above, the chances of needing are very small but possible all the same. The only time you'll know if you need it will be mid roll. Not a good time to be wishing you'd fitted one but hadn't.

It's a precaution at the end of the day. As is wearing a seatbelt to nip to the shop.

IN ADDITION

It does stiffen the car up too. Since I had a rollbar put in the Griff (for Sprinting) it has been much more compliant in the handling department.

Edited by lazyitus on Wednesday 24th June 09:36

[emicen]

T89 Callan said:

Olivera said:

T89 Callan said:

No cage, I really don't see the need for cages in cars of this performance. Having done a load of track days and worked in lots of national motorsport I have never seen anyone roll on a track day, and the rolls I have heard about have involved much much faster cars than yours or people driving like complete retards.

Please note I'm not belittling your car, I have an E30 (only a 320) myself as a track car and will not be fitting a cage. Only if you go for sprints/competition use then fit a cage.

Just my opinion, I expect to get flamed but from many years experience this is the conclusion I have come to. It's a lot of expense, work and weight for something you will never need.

ETA Your Touring looks awesome, mine is never going to look that cool.

Edited by T89 Callan on Tuesday 23 June 23:44

If your car can attain serious speeds then I'd recommend a rollcage. This is what happened to my garages track car at a recent knockhill trackday - without it the driver would certainly no longer be here:

Like I said from my experience I don't feel the need for a cage in my track car, it's a personal choice.
I'm pretty sure that you're statistically (yes I hate stats too) more likely to have a big smash on the public road than on a track day but I don't have a cage in my road car.
Swings and roundabouts really.

Both hot hatch days I've spectated at have featured roll overs in not particularly fast machines. I'd run one for piece of mind I nothing else.

Olivera: last minute cone dive before the hairpin? I remember the state of TonyG's R32 when someone inexperienced clipped him at that exact place and it ended up in the tyres. He too would have been lucky to walk away without a cage.

[Herman Toothrot]

Knockhill is well known to be full of loons though. Its the same at the Castle Combe "Action" days, JapFest or similar days. I'd never take my car on one of these pay £20 and go have a blast days, always full of muppets.

[emicen]

Herman Toothrot said:

Knockhill is well known to be full of loons though. Its the same at the Castle Combe "Action" days, JapFest or similar days. I'd never take my car on one of these pay £20 and go have a blast days, always full of muppets.

However, the specific accident I referenced above was an inexperienced driver causing a very experienced driver to have a big smash. No muppetry involved.

Driving standards around KH are nowhere near as bad as armchair experts permanently claim having seen that video of one bunch of muppets from a few years back smashing in to each other and other cars.

[slackalice]

Most people are lucky enough never to have a roll, but luck has a habit of running out. I was at an event a couple of weeks back, and there were two cars rolled!

The funiest one I witnesed was a couple of years ago at Goodwood, a chap had just bought a trackday car the day before, and was on his first day out with it. The car was fitted with a full roll cage lucky for him as he had an off into the kitty litter resulting in a roll over in slow motion (about 5mph).

So if you can afford one, buy one, I just have today, keep an eye on e-bay they come up on there from time to time.

Why do people that say you don't need one wear a skid lid??? doh!

[Herman Toothrot]

slackalice said:

Why do people that say you don't need one wear a skid lid??? doh!

Because they are mandatory.

If your cars used on the road at all a cage canbe a pain insurance wise and dangerous as without a helmet on you have introduced a steel bar to smack your head on.