Paul Garvin - Time for PHers to be Heard
Discussion
Hear me PHers! 
Paul Garvin is the Chief Constable of the Durham Constabulary. Durham is the only police force in the country that has no speed cameras installed....
Mr Garvin was on the BBC Breakfast News today (Wednesday 10th December 2003) defending his stance against cameras in the face of the usual 'think of the children' emotive crap that actually does nothing for road safety, and in the face of pressure from the government to, "Rethink his stance."
Here is an extract from the Durham Constabulary website, with highlighting performed by myself:
"Over 90% of crashes are caused by human error, (that's why they are now called crashes rather than accidents). The commonest contributory factors, and there are many factors and combinations of factors which can contribute to these crashes have been found to be INAPPROPRIATE and EXCESS SPEED, which has been linked to approximately 1,200 deaths a year or 30% of the total.
Looked at in the context of the crashes occurring within the Durham Constabulary area, this 30% is made up of 3%to 4% exceeding the speed limit and the remainder travelling too fast for the circumstances or inappropriate speed.
Inappropriate speed means driving too fast for the road or the conditions, such as on ice, into a low winter sun, in fog, rain, high winds or snow, or on a winding country road. You don’t have to be exceeding the speed limit to be driving at an inappropriate speed.
What Can You Do To Help?
Don't Speed! (posted speeds are just that, a limit not a target)
Drive at a speed which allows you to stop within the distance you can see
Drive to the conditions not the speed limit, (but remember never exceed the speed limit)
Pre-plan your journey and times, therefore removing the need to speed to keep appointments.
Be aware of your own limitations and capabilities and drive within them.
If you do speed you could be liable for a fixed penalty fine of £60 and three penalty points on your driving licence, or a court may impose a £2,000 fine (£2,500 for motorway offences) and between three to six penalty points on your licence. The courts may also decide on a discretionary disqualification period.
SPEED KILLS! If it's your SPEED it's your FAULT!
Help us to avoid these unnecessary crashes. Do your bit by becoming a more aware and responsible driver."
www.durham.police.uk/roadcas/enforcement.php
The website does propagate the 'one third lie' as the 30% he quotes includes "crashes" due to driving to close to the car in front, which is nothing to do with speed. It also tells us not to exceed the speed limit, which is understandable, but I would be interested in Mr Garvin's opinion on national body made up of experts to set speed limits - there are simply too many that have been reduced to ridiculous levels that everyone breaks the limit because it is inappropriate.
Also of concern is the "SPEED KILLS! If it's your SPEED it's your FAULT!" statement. To me that reads that if you are travelling at any speed and someone is killed then it is your fault - despite the fact that someone may have jumped into the road in front of you without warning. I will be raising this concern with Mr Garvin.
This man deserves our respect and admiration for standing up for what he believes is right - I wish the Police Constable in my area was as courageous. Now, it's time to stop being one of the silent (except to complain amongst themselves), sensible majority and let this man know that he has the support of responsible road users, who, despite being petrolheads have a keen interest in road safety. I wonder how many of the people telling us all to slow down have down advanced driving courses for example...
I will be writing to Mr Garvin a.s.a.p. and will post my letter in this thread. I ask all of you who want a road safety campaign that focuses on the real causes of accidents (tailgating, lapse of concentration, badly designed roads, poorly trained drivers, etc.) to also write to Mr Garvin. In addition to his contact details I have also posted the contact details for the Durham Police Authority, to whom I will be copying my letter.
Come on PHers - time to be heard!
Durham Constabulary
www.durham.police.uk
Mr Paul Garvin
Chief Constable
Durham Constabulary
Police Headquarters
Aykley Heads
Durham
DH1 5TT
Durham Police Authority
www.durham.gov.uk/police
Councillor Anne Wright
(Chairman)
Durham Police Authority
County Hall
Durham
DH1 5UL
Email: durham.pa@durham.gov.uk
Paul Garvin is the Chief Constable of the Durham Constabulary. Durham is the only police force in the country that has no speed cameras installed....
Mr Garvin was on the BBC Breakfast News today (Wednesday 10th December 2003) defending his stance against cameras in the face of the usual 'think of the children' emotive crap that actually does nothing for road safety, and in the face of pressure from the government to, "Rethink his stance."
Here is an extract from the Durham Constabulary website, with highlighting performed by myself:
"Over 90% of crashes are caused by human error, (that's why they are now called crashes rather than accidents). The commonest contributory factors, and there are many factors and combinations of factors which can contribute to these crashes have been found to be INAPPROPRIATE and EXCESS SPEED, which has been linked to approximately 1,200 deaths a year or 30% of the total.
Looked at in the context of the crashes occurring within the Durham Constabulary area, this 30% is made up of 3%to 4% exceeding the speed limit and the remainder travelling too fast for the circumstances or inappropriate speed.
Inappropriate speed means driving too fast for the road or the conditions, such as on ice, into a low winter sun, in fog, rain, high winds or snow, or on a winding country road. You don’t have to be exceeding the speed limit to be driving at an inappropriate speed.
What Can You Do To Help?
Don't Speed! (posted speeds are just that, a limit not a target)
Drive at a speed which allows you to stop within the distance you can see
Drive to the conditions not the speed limit, (but remember never exceed the speed limit)
Pre-plan your journey and times, therefore removing the need to speed to keep appointments.
Be aware of your own limitations and capabilities and drive within them.
If you do speed you could be liable for a fixed penalty fine of £60 and three penalty points on your driving licence, or a court may impose a £2,000 fine (£2,500 for motorway offences) and between three to six penalty points on your licence. The courts may also decide on a discretionary disqualification period.
SPEED KILLS! If it's your SPEED it's your FAULT!
Help us to avoid these unnecessary crashes. Do your bit by becoming a more aware and responsible driver."
www.durham.police.uk/roadcas/enforcement.php
The website does propagate the 'one third lie' as the 30% he quotes includes "crashes" due to driving to close to the car in front, which is nothing to do with speed. It also tells us not to exceed the speed limit, which is understandable, but I would be interested in Mr Garvin's opinion on national body made up of experts to set speed limits - there are simply too many that have been reduced to ridiculous levels that everyone breaks the limit because it is inappropriate.
Also of concern is the "SPEED KILLS! If it's your SPEED it's your FAULT!" statement. To me that reads that if you are travelling at any speed and someone is killed then it is your fault - despite the fact that someone may have jumped into the road in front of you without warning. I will be raising this concern with Mr Garvin.
This man deserves our respect and admiration for standing up for what he believes is right - I wish the Police Constable in my area was as courageous. Now, it's time to stop being one of the silent (except to complain amongst themselves), sensible majority and let this man know that he has the support of responsible road users, who, despite being petrolheads have a keen interest in road safety. I wonder how many of the people telling us all to slow down have down advanced driving courses for example...
I will be writing to Mr Garvin a.s.a.p. and will post my letter in this thread. I ask all of you who want a road safety campaign that focuses on the real causes of accidents (tailgating, lapse of concentration, badly designed roads, poorly trained drivers, etc.) to also write to Mr Garvin. In addition to his contact details I have also posted the contact details for the Durham Police Authority, to whom I will be copying my letter.
Come on PHers - time to be heard!
Durham Constabulary
www.durham.police.uk
Mr Paul Garvin
Chief Constable
Durham Constabulary
Police Headquarters
Aykley Heads
Durham
DH1 5TT
Durham Police Authority
www.durham.gov.uk/police
Councillor Anne Wright
(Chairman)
Durham Police Authority
County Hall
Durham
DH1 5UL
Email: durham.pa@durham.gov.uk
My e-mail:
Sirs
I am not a resident of Durham, neither do I pass through the county very often. Nevertheless, I would like to place on record my total support for the rational and un-emotive stance that your Chief Constable, Mr Paul Garvin has taken with regard to speed cameras.
His recently reported words (Sunday Telegraph, 7 December 2003) display an intelligence and thought that few others appear to have brought to this issue. This is echoed on the force's website (cit: www.durham.police.uk/roadcas/enforcement.php).
Mr Garvin is to be roundly applauded for properly attributing the primary causes of crashes - a more accurate description than 'accidents' - to other attributes than speed per se. He clearly recognises that cameras cannot identify the driver under the influence of drink or drugs, nor the driver turning right without indicating or looking, nor simple inattention and carelessness.
His approach to driver education is undoubtedly the right way to go. According to recent report, most accidents are caused by young drivers, yet most speeding fines by camera attach to the middle-age group. Clearly a disparity of measurement. Mr Garvin seeks to address the need by improving the driving skills of drivers aged 17 and 18 and those who have been involved in a crash.
Death resulting from a motor crash is naturally a highly emotive subject and it is one that the 'anti-speeding' lobby exploits to the utmost in promoting the increasing deployment of speed cameras. Nevertheless, Mr Garvin has done well to resist this, and long may this stance continue. I do sincerely hope that other Chief Constables will appreciate the strength of feeling among motorists in this country - that speed cameras are another form of taxation with a majority sited not to reduce the KSI statistics, but to raise revenue for the Exchequer and the local Constabulary force. I hope too, that other Chief Constables will realise that Traffic Police can have a much greater beneficial effect of KSI statistics and promote a much needed improvement in rapport between the motorist and the police. Such an improved rapport would also go a long way to improving the overall standing of the police in the eyes of the public at large.
The 'statistics' presented by the Government and the 'speed kills' lobby - including distortions of the TRL's own report about correlations between speed, accidents and KSI figures - do nothing to foster informed debate. Many of these organisations appear very reluctant to publish the detail behind their figures but are only too quick to criticise others for erroneous analysis of what figures are available. It is very comforting that Mr Garvin has not been seduced by the 'speed kills' lobby and their highly selective statistics. It is a tribute to his steadfastness too, that he has not bowed to the extremism ably and repeatedly demonstrated by the chairman of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Road Safety Committee.
I hope that one day very soon, Mr Garvin's attitude and approach will receive the national recognition it so richly deserves.
Regards,
(signed)
>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 10th December 11:30
Sirs
I am not a resident of Durham, neither do I pass through the county very often. Nevertheless, I would like to place on record my total support for the rational and un-emotive stance that your Chief Constable, Mr Paul Garvin has taken with regard to speed cameras.
His recently reported words (Sunday Telegraph, 7 December 2003) display an intelligence and thought that few others appear to have brought to this issue. This is echoed on the force's website (cit: www.durham.police.uk/roadcas/enforcement.php).
Mr Garvin is to be roundly applauded for properly attributing the primary causes of crashes - a more accurate description than 'accidents' - to other attributes than speed per se. He clearly recognises that cameras cannot identify the driver under the influence of drink or drugs, nor the driver turning right without indicating or looking, nor simple inattention and carelessness.
His approach to driver education is undoubtedly the right way to go. According to recent report, most accidents are caused by young drivers, yet most speeding fines by camera attach to the middle-age group. Clearly a disparity of measurement. Mr Garvin seeks to address the need by improving the driving skills of drivers aged 17 and 18 and those who have been involved in a crash.
Death resulting from a motor crash is naturally a highly emotive subject and it is one that the 'anti-speeding' lobby exploits to the utmost in promoting the increasing deployment of speed cameras. Nevertheless, Mr Garvin has done well to resist this, and long may this stance continue. I do sincerely hope that other Chief Constables will appreciate the strength of feeling among motorists in this country - that speed cameras are another form of taxation with a majority sited not to reduce the KSI statistics, but to raise revenue for the Exchequer and the local Constabulary force. I hope too, that other Chief Constables will realise that Traffic Police can have a much greater beneficial effect of KSI statistics and promote a much needed improvement in rapport between the motorist and the police. Such an improved rapport would also go a long way to improving the overall standing of the police in the eyes of the public at large.
The 'statistics' presented by the Government and the 'speed kills' lobby - including distortions of the TRL's own report about correlations between speed, accidents and KSI figures - do nothing to foster informed debate. Many of these organisations appear very reluctant to publish the detail behind their figures but are only too quick to criticise others for erroneous analysis of what figures are available. It is very comforting that Mr Garvin has not been seduced by the 'speed kills' lobby and their highly selective statistics. It is a tribute to his steadfastness too, that he has not bowed to the extremism ably and repeatedly demonstrated by the chairman of the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) Road Safety Committee.
I hope that one day very soon, Mr Garvin's attitude and approach will receive the national recognition it so richly deserves.
Regards,
(signed)
>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 10th December 11:30
Great stuff guys!
A very eloquent email by streak I thought. I should emphasise that the email address I gave is for the Durham Police Authority, of which Mr Garvin is not a member as I couldn't find an email address for Mr Garvin himself or Durham Constabulary. I hope they will pass your email on but it might be worth sending it as a letter to the Durham Constabulary address given.
I am in the process of writing my letter but work keeps getting in the way!
Cheers.
roadie.
PS: So, come on, get to it the rest of you!
A very eloquent email by streak I thought. I should emphasise that the email address I gave is for the Durham Police Authority, of which Mr Garvin is not a member as I couldn't find an email address for Mr Garvin himself or Durham Constabulary. I hope they will pass your email on but it might be worth sending it as a letter to the Durham Constabulary address given.
I am in the process of writing my letter but work keeps getting in the way!
Cheers.
roadie.
PS: So, come on, get to it the rest of you!
roadsweeper said:
Great stuff guys!
A very eloquent email by streak I thought. I should emphasise that the email address I gave is for the Durham Police Authority, of which Mr Garvin is not a member as I couldn't find an email address for Mr Garvin himself or Durham Constabulary. ...
The Police Authority appoints the CC and determines priorities for the CC - Streaky
PS - thank you for your kind words - S
>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 10th December 13:07
streaky said:
Just to let PHers know that Ms Paultine Curry has informed me that she has passed my e-mail to Paul Grvin. Go to it guys and gals - Streaky
I've mailed him.
Pointed out the 1/3 lie; slagged off Brunstrom; thanked him for standing up for the public against criminals and dangerous drivers instead of focussing on decent honest motorists.
>> Edited by toad_oftoadhall on Wednesday 10th December 16:11
Pity about the reports that road deaths in Durham rose 56% last year. That will increase the pressure on Paul Garvin to cave in and follow the herd. David Jameson (Road Safety Minister) has suggested the PG consider the use of 'safety cameras' to cut deaths, citing the 35% reduction in KSI (associated with a small sample of scameras) currently being bandied about.
Supportive e-mails are needed - Streaky
Supportive e-mails are needed - Streaky
streaky said:
Pity about the reports that road deaths in Durham rose 56% last year. That will increase the pressure on Paul Garvin to cave in and follow the herd. David Jameson (Road Safety Minister) has suggested the PG consider the use of 'safety cameras' to cut deaths, citing the 35% reduction in KSI (associated with a small sample of scameras) currently being bandied about.
Supportive e-mails are needed - Streaky
Mr Garvin answered that point on his telephone interview. The 56% is very misleading for a number of factors, including Foot and Mouth hugely cutting down the amount of traffic in 2001.
He made the important point that Durham's accident rate is around 30% lower than the national average - now that's a useful statistic.
Sent them this
-----------------
I would just like to register my support for Paul Garvin and his stand against 'safety' partnerships. It is evident that speed cameras placed in safe locations are having no effect on driver behaviour and are only serving to alienate the hard-working police from the public.
The only solution is good policing, driver education and also pedestrian education. The emotive arguments of Richard Brunstrom, Mary Williams (Brake), Vicky Cann (T2000), David Begg (self-employed professor of whatever he chooses) need to silenced by reasoned arguments, such as Mr Garvin's.
Keep up the good work
)
-----------------
I would just like to register my support for Paul Garvin and his stand against 'safety' partnerships. It is evident that speed cameras placed in safe locations are having no effect on driver behaviour and are only serving to alienate the hard-working police from the public.
The only solution is good policing, driver education and also pedestrian education. The emotive arguments of Richard Brunstrom, Mary Williams (Brake), Vicky Cann (T2000), David Begg (self-employed professor of whatever he chooses) need to silenced by reasoned arguments, such as Mr Garvin's.
Keep up the good work
)I just used the form at www.durham.police.uk/misc/contact_us.php
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