Discussion
I'm looking at getting my first Cerbera in the next couple of months and just like to know what people thoughts on the two engines are.
I've listened to a 4.2 so far and I think the cam noise is horrendous from these (engine was cold though). I have yet to hear a 4.5 yet.
Which is the more robust engine of the 2? I've heard horror stories about cam wear on the 4.2 and that this doesn't carryover to the 4.5 due to the lower lift cams.
Who's owned both and which do you prefer? I'm currently set on a 4.5 but if it is just as fragile I may well get a 4.2 with parts being more available.
I've listened to a 4.2 so far and I think the cam noise is horrendous from these (engine was cold though). I have yet to hear a 4.5 yet.
Which is the more robust engine of the 2? I've heard horror stories about cam wear on the 4.2 and that this doesn't carryover to the 4.5 due to the lower lift cams.
Who's owned both and which do you prefer? I'm currently set on a 4.5 but if it is just as fragile I may well get a 4.2 with parts being more available.
I thought the cam noise was pretty similar on both?
I seem to remember Joolz posting about the various Cerbie developments, one of which was the move away from 'clatter cams' (the new ones having a different profile, thus the 'older 4.2's are faster argument'). Was the 4.2 you heard an early one? I personally went for a late 98 4.2 because:
1) of the supposed improvement in build quality in '98
2) it had the later cams
3) 4.5's of a similar price were all dogs
DJ
I seem to remember Joolz posting about the various Cerbie developments, one of which was the move away from 'clatter cams' (the new ones having a different profile, thus the 'older 4.2's are faster argument'). Was the 4.2 you heard an early one? I personally went for a late 98 4.2 because:
1) of the supposed improvement in build quality in '98
2) it had the later cams
3) 4.5's of a similar price were all dogs
DJ
I have a 4.2, so I cant really compare them. All I know is, that sometimes the extra monies that you can pay for a 4.5, may not be worth it. You can always buy a 4.2, and use the money that you would have spent on upgrades.
A lot of the time, the 420bhp quoted for the 4.5 is not achieved, and varies quite a lot from car to car. The 360bhp for the 4.2 is a lot more consistent from car to car.
A lot of the time, the 420bhp quoted for the 4.5 is not achieved, and varies quite a lot from car to car. The 360bhp for the 4.2 is a lot more consistent from car to car.
Agreed - lots of previous posts about that! I think the general opinion is go 4.5 is you fancy the RR conversion, otherwise there isn't much in it (but I would say that).
Thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=44765&f=6&h=0&hw=noise+start discusses cam noise.
IMHO, you're looking at least 22k for a decent 4.5 without monster mileage.
DJ
Thread www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=44765&f=6&h=0&hw=noise+start discusses cam noise.
IMHO, you're looking at least 22k for a decent 4.5 without monster mileage.
DJ
lol @ this forum for searching! searched for '4.2 0r 4.5' and that thread didn't come up!
The RR plots I've seen for the 4.5 seem to show that there are massive holes in the ECU calibration (not optimised) so this could be sorted with a RR tune. I'd prefer an engine that's been in the chassis for a few years as it means some of the gremlins are ironed out. However I do like the look of the 4.5!
The 4.2 I heard was a '96 P plater. The 4.5 is a crash damaged one with the 18" spiders and headlight upgrade. Unsure of the mileage but the owner assures me that there's no structural damage, all purely cosmetic.
The RR plots I've seen for the 4.5 seem to show that there are massive holes in the ECU calibration (not optimised) so this could be sorted with a RR tune. I'd prefer an engine that's been in the chassis for a few years as it means some of the gremlins are ironed out. However I do like the look of the 4.5!
The 4.2 I heard was a '96 P plater. The 4.5 is a crash damaged one with the 18" spiders and headlight upgrade. Unsure of the mileage but the owner assures me that there's no structural damage, all purely cosmetic.
My 4.2 has just had a full factory engine rebuild & the engine is sooo quiet(in comparison to before)& sounds great, but then i thought the clatter came sounded fine as well.
As far as RR mapping sorting out the ECU on 4.5's its not quite that simple as the mbe ecu will not allow remapping (unless you are MBE or TVR) i think that jools (& others)have been working on this for some time now & have made slow progress.
Why are looking at damaged ones? Cost? there are lots of nice cerbs out there at decent money without looking at cat c & d.
Pays yer money & takes yer choice but i think you will be struggling when it comes time to sell. (unless you are giving it away).
Darren.
As far as RR mapping sorting out the ECU on 4.5's its not quite that simple as the mbe ecu will not allow remapping (unless you are MBE or TVR) i think that jools (& others)have been working on this for some time now & have made slow progress.
Why are looking at damaged ones? Cost? there are lots of nice cerbs out there at decent money without looking at cat c & d.
Pays yer money & takes yer choice but i think you will be struggling when it comes time to sell. (unless you are giving it away).
Darren.
I think I searched for 'cam noise cold' or something.
I'm not sure if you can use operators such as OR, AND etc in the search query (it just takes it literally).
As far as chassis development goes, the only change was in 2002 I believe, 6 years after launch! 4.5's should look the same as 4.2's apart from the wheels.
I had the same dilemma (and that Red CAT C car does look tempting). I posted about the value of modifications when I was looking for mine and the general opinion is that they do not add much value. If I was looking at at '96 car I'd check the history carefully for upgrades (another search required I'm afraid). Chances are the clutch, cams, shocks etc could all do with changing in the non too distant future if not done already (see recent posts by trooper who's just bought one).
DJ
I'm not sure if you can use operators such as OR, AND etc in the search query (it just takes it literally).
As far as chassis development goes, the only change was in 2002 I believe, 6 years after launch! 4.5's should look the same as 4.2's apart from the wheels.
I had the same dilemma (and that Red CAT C car does look tempting). I posted about the value of modifications when I was looking for mine and the general opinion is that they do not add much value. If I was looking at at '96 car I'd check the history carefully for upgrades (another search required I'm afraid). Chances are the clutch, cams, shocks etc could all do with changing in the non too distant future if not done already (see recent posts by trooper who's just bought one).
DJ
darreni said:
My 4.2 has just had a full factory engine rebuild & the engine is sooo quiet(in comparison to before)& sounds great, but then i thought the clatter came sounded fine as well.
As far as RR mapping sorting out the ECU on 4.5's its not quite that simple as the mbe ecu will not allow remapping (unless you are MBE or TVR) i think that jools (& others)have been working on this for some time now & have made slow progress.
Why are looking at damaged ones? Cost? there are lots of nice cerbs out there at decent money without looking at cat c & d.
Pays yer money & takes yer choice but i think you will be struggling when it comes time to sell. (unless you are giving it away).
Darren.
One thing I don't 'get' is why TVR didn't sort the mapping out in the first place. Surely they have people internally who could have done a better job, if the original fueling map is sooo far out? That's unless it's to do with emmisions etc? From what has previously been said the engines run lean at some points in the rev range and rich in others. Wouldn't a better mapped engine be more reliable so would be worth the investment time by the boys at the factory?
DJ
>> Edited by _DJ_ on Thursday 11th December 12:27
ridds said:
I'm looking at getting my first Cerbera in the next couple of months and just like to know what people thoughts on the two engines are.
I've listened to a 4.2 so far and I think the cam noise is horrendous from these (engine was cold though). I have yet to hear a 4.5 yet.
Which is the more robust engine of the 2? I've heard horror stories about cam wear on the 4.2 and that this doesn't carryover to the 4.5 due to the lower lift cams.
Who's owned both and which do you prefer? I'm currently set on a 4.5 but if it is just as fragile I may well get a 4.2 with parts being more available.
Ridds why are you not considering a speed six?
I was speaking to my local dealership last week who informed me they only deal with Speed Six and 4.5's. Says the desirability of the 4.2 model is poor????? The difference in performance between the 4.0 and 4.2 is not almost un-noticeable, more cumfy to drive as well.
jamster said:
I'm looking at getting my first Cerbera in the next couple of months and just like to know what people thoughts on the two engines are.
I've listened to a 4.2 so far and I think the cam noise is horrendous from these (engine was cold though). I have yet to hear a 4.5 yet.
Which is the more robust engine of the 2? I've heard horror stories about cam wear on the 4.2 and that this doesn't carryover to the 4.5 due to the lower lift cams.
Who's owned both and which do you prefer? I'm currently set on a 4.5 but if it is just as fragile I may well get a 4.2 with parts being more available.
Ridds why are you not considering a speed six?
I was speaking to my local dealership last week who informed me they only deal with Speed Six and 4.5's. Says the desirability of the 4.2 model is poor????? The difference in performance between the 4.0 and 4.2 is not almost un-noticeable, more cumfy to drive as well.
I'm not convinced (see recent threads on poor trade-in values offered by TVR dealers on Speed-6 engined cars and the drop in prices in all cars t350, Tuscan, Cerbie fitted with those engines). I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the engine (any more) but I do think that they're still less popular than the other cars.
tonyhetherington said:
Thanks everyone....I'd made the sensible decision to say "no" to getting myself a cerbera.....and then, I read this thread, it brings it all back again, and I find myself flicking through insurance sites and autotrader.
Tony - get onto the Tesco's online quote engine and you'll be checking your bank balance before you know it!
DJ
Yeh it's kinda weird how all these stories fly around. Was offered 28K for my speed six from a dealer Yreg 2001, 9000miles. Guess it just depends whether they need stock or not. Was jsut checking hte specs of the speed six and 4.2. 10bhp in it but the speed six has more torque. Would be interesting to see the 'STIG' take both round the track and c who wins!!! Right, where's the top gear website!
jamster said:
Yeh it's kinda weird how all these stories fly around. Was offered 28K for my speed six from a dealer Yreg 2001, 9000miles. Guess it just depends whether they need stock or not. Was jsut checking hte specs of the speed six and 4.2. 10bhp in it but the speed six has more torque. Would be interesting to see the 'STIG' take both round the track and c who wins!!! Right, where's the top gear website!
2001 TVR Cerbera 4.0 Speed Six, 2001, Y reg. 10000 miles, Midnight blue, Magnolia and blue hide, aircon, 19 Multi Mania wheels, 11 mths TVR Warranty remaining, head lamp conversion, recent full service, FTVRSH, excellent condition . . . . (private)
Why not buy it, trade it in and make 2k?
_DJ_ said:
Tony - get onto the Tesco's online quote engine and you'll be checking your bank balance before you know it!
DJ
I am.
AND....no less...I guess due to winter more than anything, there's some REALLY attractive cars out there! I'm looking at about £20-22k. Always said I'd get a Cerbera (ideally 4.5, but 4.2 or s6 would be considered), but now I find myself looking at Tuscans too. ahhhhh...you'll never guess what....Tesco's will insure me for £1300
And for a Tuscan, not alot more
And that's without any trying, or IAM involvement, or anything.
Oh dear, this is bad....going to go and see my bank manager soon I think.
>> Edited by tonyhetherington on Thursday 11th December 13:04
And for a Tuscan, not alot more
And that's without any trying, or IAM involvement, or anything.
Oh dear, this is bad....going to go and see my bank manager soon I think.
>> Edited by tonyhetherington on Thursday 11th December 13:04
The Speed Six is too pricey for me and though the straight 6 does make a nice sound I feel that stating 4.5 V8 is much better when boasting down the pub....
I'm also horrified by the valve stretch issue I have read about....
Tesco's is amazingly cheap!! Exactly what got me looking.
I'm an engine Calibrator by trade, work for Ricardo consulting engineers and as long as the software is accesible it shouldn't be too hard.
The main reason I'm tempted by the crash repair vehicle is it has all the upgrades that I like and is about £7K less than similar spec cars that I've seen.... Though the resale does still bother me...
>> Edited by ridds on Thursday 11th December 13:09
I'm also horrified by the valve stretch issue I have read about....
Tesco's is amazingly cheap!! Exactly what got me looking.
I'm an engine Calibrator by trade, work for Ricardo consulting engineers and as long as the software is accesible it shouldn't be too hard.
The main reason I'm tempted by the crash repair vehicle is it has all the upgrades that I like and is about £7K less than similar spec cars that I've seen.... Though the resale does still bother me...
>> Edited by ridds on Thursday 11th December 13:09
OK, so you're nearly there Tony! Erm, how to clinch the deal......there's a blue Tuscan for 22.5k in the classifieds. I believe is owned by one of the TVR dealer's employees, has a 2003 spec engine and looks very tidy. It's also come down from 25/6k if I remember rightly, may be room for negotiation to get that into budget?
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