Flaky products - where has "quality" gone
Discussion
My faithful Bosch washer dryer has given up after 14 years of hard usage. It cost me nearly £1,000 back in 1995, but washing machine repair man has said it will cost £300 for a new motor, so not really an economical repair. A new machine is circa £550, but they are reputed to have a working life of only 5 years or so, because the gears in them are made of nylon rather than metal.
Also been searching for a new cordless phone for the house. Had a Panasonic one that lasted 6 years before the buttons stoped working, now have a BT one that has lasted 3 years before succumbing to a similar problem - I can dial any phone number I like so long as it does not have a 3 or an 8 in it. Looking at new phones in the shops, they are all really light weight, flimsy, tatty affairs, that do not look like they would make it until Christmas before breaking. They play loads of polyphonic tunes - I just want one that sounds like a bloody telephone that can be heard from a reasonable distance. Same goes for mobile phones. Got a new Blackberry and the charger sometimes works, sometimes does not.
What has happened out there? Have companies given up on making decent quality products? You usually get what you pay for, but I can't really find 'premium' products of a good quality. Everything seems to be made in China, costs less than it did 10 years ago, but poorly made with an expected short service life. Do people only buy $h!t these days (and this started before the recession).
Also been searching for a new cordless phone for the house. Had a Panasonic one that lasted 6 years before the buttons stoped working, now have a BT one that has lasted 3 years before succumbing to a similar problem - I can dial any phone number I like so long as it does not have a 3 or an 8 in it. Looking at new phones in the shops, they are all really light weight, flimsy, tatty affairs, that do not look like they would make it until Christmas before breaking. They play loads of polyphonic tunes - I just want one that sounds like a bloody telephone that can be heard from a reasonable distance. Same goes for mobile phones. Got a new Blackberry and the charger sometimes works, sometimes does not.
What has happened out there? Have companies given up on making decent quality products? You usually get what you pay for, but I can't really find 'premium' products of a good quality. Everything seems to be made in China, costs less than it did 10 years ago, but poorly made with an expected short service life. Do people only buy $h!t these days (and this started before the recession).
they've worked out that not only can lower quality products be made cheaper (and therefore sold at higher margin) but that if they break quicker then you'll have to buy replacments more frequently leading to more profit.
What they are aiming for really is "long enough that you won't complain" but "not so long you won't ever have to buy another one"!
What they are aiming for really is "long enough that you won't complain" but "not so long you won't ever have to buy another one"!
KaraK said:
they've worked out that not only can lower quality products be made cheaper (and therefore sold at higher margin) but that if they break quicker then you'll have to buy replacments more frequently leading to more profit.
What they are aiming for really is "long enough that you won't complain" but "not so long you won't ever have to buy another one"!
Nail hit squarely on the head, mobile phones in particular you are lucky if they make a year before you need a new one but your contract is for 18 months !!What they are aiming for really is "long enough that you won't complain" but "not so long you won't ever have to buy another one"!
KaraK said:
they've worked out that not only can lower quality products be made cheaper (and therefore sold at higher margin) but that if they break quicker then you'll have to buy replacments more frequently leading to more profit.
What they are aiming for really is "long enough that you won't complain" but "not so long you won't ever have to buy another one"!
Bingo. What they are aiming for really is "long enough that you won't complain" but "not so long you won't ever have to buy another one"!
I think there's a general shift in consumer attitude towards price being the absolute deciding factor in a purchase, with quality a minor consideration. Just look at the way supermarkets have gone, for example, everyone singing the praises of the cheapest places, even though the food they sell is barely edible (IMHO).
I've always been happy to pay a bit more for good quality products but it's increasingly difficult when everyone else just seems to want everything as cheap as possible.
I've always been happy to pay a bit more for good quality products but it's increasingly difficult when everyone else just seems to want everything as cheap as possible.
I must be unusual then. I would rather buy something good that costs more. Mobile phones may be fashion items, but I don't want the bother of disposing of things like washing machines on a regular basis. Too bloody heavy.
Modern cars are much better quality than 10-20 years ago - perhaps an opposite trend to consumer goods?
Modern cars are much better quality than 10-20 years ago - perhaps an opposite trend to consumer goods?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
That and everyone seems to prefer new tat to old quality.
That and everyone seems to prefer new tat to old quality.
eddie1980 said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence
That and everyone seems to prefer new tat to old quality.
Thanks for that - that is a really good article - I will read that fully when I get more time. It does seem to explain the trend well.That and everyone seems to prefer new tat to old quality.
Just wish that there was actually more choice on the market for better quality albeit at a higher price point. I don't want to sully my house with tat. Just stuff that works and lasts a reasonable time.
Hotpoint washing machine in the house has just literally fallen apart due to failed bearings. Thankfully we took extended warranty. The 5 year warranty expires next week.
The previous washing machine, also a cheap Hotpoint, lasted just under 15 years. The piping inside had rotted and parts weren't available.
The previous washing machine, also a cheap Hotpoint, lasted just under 15 years. The piping inside had rotted and parts weren't available.
davemac250 said:
So in fact your comparison between a Bosch 1995 dryer at £1000 should be with spending £1500 today, not £550.
Bet the quality gets better at that price range.
Kind of, yes. The 2009 price of an 'equivalent' product is much lower than in 1995. I say 'equivalent' because that is what they now produce, and there is no £1500 machine. So on the one hand, it is lower priced, but the quality is no longer there. Value for money may be the same I suppose (like cost per usage), but I would rather have something as durable as the first product and pay more for it.Bet the quality gets better at that price range.
TUS 373 said:
davemac250 said:
So in fact your comparison between a Bosch 1995 dryer at £1000 should be with spending £1500 today, not £550.
Bet the quality gets better at that price range.
Kind of, yes. The 2009 price of an 'equivalent' product is much lower than in 1995. I say 'equivalent' because that is what they now produce, and there is no £1500 machine. So on the one hand, it is lower priced, but the quality is no longer there. Value for money may be the same I suppose (like cost per usage), but I would rather have something as durable as the first product and pay more for it.Bet the quality gets better at that price range.
I got a ten year guarantee with mine, even if it wasnt at the £1500 price point. Cant argue with that... (well, the ex-wife cant. I now have a crappy hotpoint)
Neil_H said:
I think there's a general shift in consumer attitude towards price being the absolute deciding factor in a purchase, with quality a minor consideration. Just look at the way supermarkets have gone, for example, everyone singing the praises of the cheapest places, even though the food they sell is barely edible (IMHO).
I've always been happy to pay a bit more for good quality products but it's increasingly difficult when everyone else just seems to want everything as cheap as possible.
With washing machines as a good example you have a choice between a cheap model that will last a few years (Indesit, say), or a high-quality model designed to last a lifetime with replacable parts (like a Miele) and everything in between. Mobile phones are free at the point of purchase 99% of the time so what can we expect? For those that are that fussed, they can save up and spend £30K on a Vertu with a guarantee.I've always been happy to pay a bit more for good quality products but it's increasingly difficult when everyone else just seems to want everything as cheap as possible.
Your supermarket argument doesn't really hold water either. The most expensive supermarkets sell carrots barely indistinguishable from warm ice, but if you go to Lidl you'll find vegetables of pretty fair taste and quality. Similarly you could always go to the local market and pick up veggies at a third of the price of Tescos with flavour that'll transport you right back to your mum's kitchen table. Tescos and the like have distorted the market for vegetables but not in the way you think they have.
I don't really think your desire to spend 'a bit more' for lasting quality is realistic. Lasting quality costs a LOT more and always has done. The difference these days is that 'fair' quality now costs a lot LESS. It is better for all of us, surely?
(edit: I was arguing a point that Neil_H didn't even make, so I changed the words a bit.)
Edited by Scrumper on Thursday 2nd July 12:18
TUS 373 said:
My faithful Bosch washer dryer has given up after 14 years of hard usage. It cost me nearly £1,000 back in 1995, but washing machine repair man has said it will cost £300 for a new motor, so not really an economical repair. A new machine is circa £550, but they are reputed to have a working life of only 5 years or so, because the gears in them are made of nylon rather than metal.
Sorry to double post. You should look at a Miele if that's your budget. It will last you decades. You may find this useful: http://www.washerhelp.co.uk/buying-advice-1.htmlGet a Miele, they are designed to last and are probably the equivalent today you can't really compare on spec because like everything the game has moved on. http://www.johnlewis.com/230575140/Product.aspx
I've bought several miele products over the years, but I regret that the washing machine I bought last year is not up to the quality of the older stuff.
It replaced a 15year old Asko which was of a significantly higher quality. Indeed if Asko still sold into the uk consumer market I'd have bought another (similar problem - motor failure and a replacement was difficult to source and we need a washer so I couldnt take the time to mess about.)
Our Miele dishasher is very good though.
It replaced a 15year old Asko which was of a significantly higher quality. Indeed if Asko still sold into the uk consumer market I'd have bought another (similar problem - motor failure and a replacement was difficult to source and we need a washer so I couldnt take the time to mess about.)
Our Miele dishasher is very good though.
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