Is stock alarm Thatcham graded ?
Discussion
My new insurer asked for a Cat 1 alarm on the car, i guess because its parked on the drive at night-time.
Is the standard alarm Thatcham graded, if not, does anyone have any recommendations for a good system.
I had a Clifford years ago on my Supra, i assume they are still one of the best ?
Thanks
Dean.
Is the standard alarm Thatcham graded, if not, does anyone have any recommendations for a good system.
I had a Clifford years ago on my Supra, i assume they are still one of the best ?
Thanks
Dean.
toothrot said:
what car? That would help
www.hsv.org.uk/topic.asp?t=716613&f=69&h=27
Come on babe keep up
I know your struggling with that at the moment
. After having such problems insuring the VE GTS, I had several contacts with Thatcham regarding insurance listings, security categorisations, why they underrate the security on our vehicles and why the Holden/HSV listings have never been updated.
Apart from a letter saying we will look into it and accusing me of being overly passionate about these vehicles, they did offer to examine the vehicle for listing with a £20,000 deposit.
Below are the current Vauxhall Monaro/VXR8 and Holden/HSV ABI listings from Thatcham:
ABI No.: Insurers/Thatcham unique reference number for each model
Ins Gp : Insurance group (1-20)/(1-50)
Gp Type: The insurance group suffix (for most modern UK/EU type approved vehicles this is normally E)
A = Meets security requirement for this group.
D = Does not meet the security requirement for a car of this type and the group rating has therefore been increased. (e.g. A group 9 car where the security requirement is not up to Thatcham's minimum standard for that group will be listed as a 10D.)
E = Exceeds security requirement for a car of this type and the group rating has therefore been reduced. (e.g. A group 9 car where the security requirement exceeds Thatcham's minimum standard for that group will be listed as an 8E.)
(It will be seen from the above that the level of security on a vehicle could result in a two group differential between otherwise identical models.)
P = Provisional - This is used in cases where the data for group rating was incomplete at time of launch.
U = Cases where the level of security for the model concerned is regarded as Unacceptable. This does not mean that the car will be uninsurable but consumers should be aware that individual insurers may insist on the security being upgraded before providing cover.
G = Import - Insurance Group Ratings are currently only allocated to vehicles built for the UK market, although our data will list vehicles that are classed as imports. These fall into two categories:
o Parallel Imports - these are vehicles that are built for and sold in Europe and will conform to European Whole Vehicle Type Approval requirements.
o Grey Imports - these are mainly vehicles that are built specifically for other, non-EU, markets and are unlikely to conform to European Whole Vehicle Type Approval.
Security: The code Thatcham give to every vehicle submitted to them for listing
N2 = An immobiliser that has not been tested by Thatcham
N1 = An alarm/immobiliser combination that has not been tested by Thatcham
T2 = An immobiliser that has been judged to comply to the Thatcham criteria.
T1 = An alarm/immobiliser combination that has been judged to comply to the Thatcham criteria.
Thatcham are notorious for changing Cat status without notice, i.e. when the VXR8 LS2 was introduced by Vauxhall it carried Thatcham Cat 2 status, but the VXR8 LS3 (inc. Bathurst) was Cat 1, from May/June 2009 both are Cat 2.
Persistence in explaining the situation to your insurer/broker should produce results. My insurers own security company backed me by telling the insurer that the fitting of a Cat 1 alarm/immobiliser to ANY VE should be considered a no-no, the insurer immediately backed down on their demands for a Cat 1 system. Like most here, I considered a tracker to be a more important, which the insurer eventually agreed with.
Having some information that the insurers like to consider for them only also seems to help.
Hope this helps some of you out there with your insurers and alarm demands.
Apart from a letter saying we will look into it and accusing me of being overly passionate about these vehicles, they did offer to examine the vehicle for listing with a £20,000 deposit.
Below are the current Vauxhall Monaro/VXR8 and Holden/HSV ABI listings from Thatcham:
| ABI No. | Model | cc. | Ins Gp. | Gp. Type | Security |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 520 651 01 | MONARO VXR V8 2005 - 2007 | 5967 | 20/48 | U | N1 |
| 520 650 01 | MONARO V8 (350) 2005 - 2007 | 5667 | 20/45 | U | N1 |
| 520 568 01 | MONARO VXR V8 (387) 2004 - 2005 | 5667 | 20/48 | U | N1 |
| 520 567 01 | MONARO V8 (333) 2004 - 2005 | 5667 | 20/45 | U | N1 |
| 520 834 01 | VXR8 (420) 2007 - 2008 | 5967 | 20/50 | U | T2 |
| 520 834 02 | VXR8 (420) auto 2007 - 2008 | 5967 | 20/50 | U | T2 |
| 520 876 01 | VXR8 (430) 2008 On | 6162 | 20/50 | U | T2 |
| 520 876 02 | VXR8 (430) auto 2008 On | 6162 | 20/50 | U | T2 |
| 520 933 01 | VXR8 BATHURST (430) 2009 On | 6162 | 20/50 | U | T2 |
| 520 934 01 | VXR8 BATHURST S(580)2009 On | 6162 | 20/50 | U | T2 |
| 197 001 01 | HOLDEN GTS 2000 On | 5665 | --/-- | G | -- |
| 197 002 01 | HOLDEN GTS-R 2000 On | 5665 | --/-- | G | -- |
ABI No.: Insurers/Thatcham unique reference number for each model
Ins Gp : Insurance group (1-20)/(1-50)
Gp Type: The insurance group suffix (for most modern UK/EU type approved vehicles this is normally E)
A = Meets security requirement for this group.
D = Does not meet the security requirement for a car of this type and the group rating has therefore been increased. (e.g. A group 9 car where the security requirement is not up to Thatcham's minimum standard for that group will be listed as a 10D.)
E = Exceeds security requirement for a car of this type and the group rating has therefore been reduced. (e.g. A group 9 car where the security requirement exceeds Thatcham's minimum standard for that group will be listed as an 8E.)
(It will be seen from the above that the level of security on a vehicle could result in a two group differential between otherwise identical models.)
P = Provisional - This is used in cases where the data for group rating was incomplete at time of launch.
U = Cases where the level of security for the model concerned is regarded as Unacceptable. This does not mean that the car will be uninsurable but consumers should be aware that individual insurers may insist on the security being upgraded before providing cover.
G = Import - Insurance Group Ratings are currently only allocated to vehicles built for the UK market, although our data will list vehicles that are classed as imports. These fall into two categories:
o Parallel Imports - these are vehicles that are built for and sold in Europe and will conform to European Whole Vehicle Type Approval requirements.
o Grey Imports - these are mainly vehicles that are built specifically for other, non-EU, markets and are unlikely to conform to European Whole Vehicle Type Approval.
Security: The code Thatcham give to every vehicle submitted to them for listing
N2 = An immobiliser that has not been tested by Thatcham
N1 = An alarm/immobiliser combination that has not been tested by Thatcham
T2 = An immobiliser that has been judged to comply to the Thatcham criteria.
T1 = An alarm/immobiliser combination that has been judged to comply to the Thatcham criteria.
Thatcham are notorious for changing Cat status without notice, i.e. when the VXR8 LS2 was introduced by Vauxhall it carried Thatcham Cat 2 status, but the VXR8 LS3 (inc. Bathurst) was Cat 1, from May/June 2009 both are Cat 2.
Persistence in explaining the situation to your insurer/broker should produce results. My insurers own security company backed me by telling the insurer that the fitting of a Cat 1 alarm/immobiliser to ANY VE should be considered a no-no, the insurer immediately backed down on their demands for a Cat 1 system. Like most here, I considered a tracker to be a more important, which the insurer eventually agreed with.
Having some information that the insurers like to consider for them only also seems to help.
Hope this helps some of you out there with your insurers and alarm demands.
V800DRB said:
Wow thanks for that information !!
Why is fitting a CAT1 considered a no-no ?
Why is fitting a CAT1 considered a no-no ?
Fitting a Cat 1 alarm to a CV8/VXR - no worries - totally different electrics.
Fitting a Cat 1 alarm to a VE - can be major aggro if not done properly. Correct power supply needed, must integrate with ECU immobiliser, ECU, BCM and TCM (if fitted).
Had similar probs with the 05 and 06 Mustangs, the ECU and BCM jointly and independently control the immobiliser circuits. Get it wrong, she wont like it; get it really wrong and pay for complete reprogramming.
It can, and has been, done, but care must be taken. Find someone who knows their stuff and will do the research.
V800DRB said:
Surely anything additional is a benefit ?
A standard after market Cat 1 alarm/immobiliser will not give much extra in security, none on the VE (maybe bonnet sensor...must double check), than what is in the factory alarm, so no benefit there! Also they generally override the factory alarm, so you may actually end up losing some functionality.
Some may find the extras available with after market alarms, proximity alerts, SMS checking, etc., useful, but I'd rather have a bloody good tracker with remote shut down (or starter control only if UK based
), deadlocking, internal smoke and 150db siren 
and worldwide coverage. Hopefully deafening, blinding and catching any bugger driving my car that shouldn't be. 
Most of what I've put here relates to the VE, but still be wary of ECU integration of aftermarket alarms on the Monaro's, quite often another immobiliser circuit is all that is needed and a switch added to the sensor circuit.
Trailermasher said:
V800DRB said:
Wow thanks for that information !!
Why is fitting a CAT1 considered a no-no ?
Why is fitting a CAT1 considered a no-no ?
Fitting a Cat 1 alarm to a CV8/VXR - no worries - totally different electrics.
Fitting a Cat 1 alarm to a VE - can be major aggro if not done properly. Correct power supply needed, must integrate with ECU immobiliser, ECU, BCM and TCM (if fitted).
Had similar probs with the 05 and 06 Mustangs, the ECU and BCM jointly and independently control the immobiliser circuits. Get it wrong, she wont like it; get it really wrong and pay for complete reprogramming.
It can, and has been, done, but care must be taken. Find someone who knows their stuff and will do the research.
V800DRB said:
Surely anything additional is a benefit ?
A standard after market Cat 1 alarm/immobiliser will not give much extra in security, none on the VE (maybe bonnet sensor...must double check), than what is in the factory alarm, so no benefit there! Also they generally override the factory alarm, so you may actually end up losing some functionality.
Some may find the extras available with after market alarms, proximity alerts, SMS checking, etc., useful, but I'd rather have a bloody good tracker with remote shut down (or starter control only if UK based :whistle
, deadlocking, internal smoke and 150db siren and worldwide coverage. Hopefully deafening, blinding and catching any bugger driving my car that shouldn't be. Most of what I've put here relates to the VE, but still be wary of ECU integration of aftermarket alarms on the Monaro's, quite often another immobiliser circuit is all that is needed and a switch added to the sensor circuit.
Indeed, seen a couple of examples of how not to fit an alarm to VE's. It was a bit of a nightmare!
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