The Divide in Specialists
Discussion
Is it just me that's seen this?
Plenty of garages out there that call themselves LR specialists and that's A Good Thing. Plenty of them established for a long time and know their way around a 90/110, Classic RR and Disco1 which is also A Good Thing. However, show them a P38 or Disco 2 even, let alone an L322 or Disco 3 and they just have no clue at all. Even worse they show absolutely no desire to learn. They just shrug and mumble something about computers and laptops and ECUs, rather than thinking about the problem and fixing it using some good old Logic.
This seemed to catch LR dealers out on the launch of the P38 too. Blindly replacing parts and not thinking about the diagnosis is what got it its (largely undeserved) terrible reputation for running costs (exploding engines aside of course). As you'd expect from LR, most of the "complicated" stuff is actually incredibly simple if you take the time to work out what it does and why. Only the really dark heart of the BECM is properly complicated, and this very rarely goes wrong but is frequently blamed and replaced when it's not at fault.
Has anyone else found this? A complete lack of enthusiasm from independents to support any LR product designed after the early 90s. Are there any real D2/P38/D3/L322 specialists out there?
Plenty of garages out there that call themselves LR specialists and that's A Good Thing. Plenty of them established for a long time and know their way around a 90/110, Classic RR and Disco1 which is also A Good Thing. However, show them a P38 or Disco 2 even, let alone an L322 or Disco 3 and they just have no clue at all. Even worse they show absolutely no desire to learn. They just shrug and mumble something about computers and laptops and ECUs, rather than thinking about the problem and fixing it using some good old Logic.
This seemed to catch LR dealers out on the launch of the P38 too. Blindly replacing parts and not thinking about the diagnosis is what got it its (largely undeserved) terrible reputation for running costs (exploding engines aside of course). As you'd expect from LR, most of the "complicated" stuff is actually incredibly simple if you take the time to work out what it does and why. Only the really dark heart of the BECM is properly complicated, and this very rarely goes wrong but is frequently blamed and replaced when it's not at fault.
Has anyone else found this? A complete lack of enthusiasm from independents to support any LR product designed after the early 90s. Are there any real D2/P38/D3/L322 specialists out there?
I would think the D2 is generally fairly well looked after by the trade now. Especially as the TD5 is in the Defender aswell.
To look at it the other way, my dad took my 94 classic into a main LR dealer a month or so ago to get the suspension codes read/reset, and they coudln't do it!
To look at it the other way, my dad took my 94 classic into a main LR dealer a month or so ago to get the suspension codes read/reset, and they coudln't do it!
S G Motor Services in Surrey are a LR specialist that look after loads of D2s, D3s, RR Sports, Later RRs etc (As well as earlier stuff). In fact the dealers send cars to him as they are full of fitters that cant diagnose stuff. He has the autologic gear and so can tune, diagnose, reset etc.... 07846 566313
The indy that I use in Derby (Alan Smith Garages) is one that covers all.
Often see P38s, L322s, RRS outside, along with Defenders, 90s, Discos of all flavours.
My experiences of them as a P38 owner have always been good - knowledgable and fair. I am sure that there are cheaper independants around, but I want one who know what they are doing. (No, I am not on commission or promise of a free service!)
Often see P38s, L322s, RRS outside, along with Defenders, 90s, Discos of all flavours.
My experiences of them as a P38 owner have always been good - knowledgable and fair. I am sure that there are cheaper independants around, but I want one who know what they are doing. (No, I am not on commission or promise of a free service!)
I'm a very happy customer of Rogers of Bedford, and they seem to know their way round the technology. They've certainly rebuilt a number of Disco3s which are supposed to be very picky about which bits of the car will "talk" to which other bits. The service manager was boasting about the new diagnostic computer they'd just bought the last time I went in there.
Zumbruk said:
I'm a very happy customer of Rogers of Bedford, and they seem to know their way round the technology. They've certainly rebuilt a number of Disco3s which are supposed to be very picky about which bits of the car will "talk" to which other bits. The service manager was boasting about the new diagnostic computer they'd just bought the last time I went in there.
Autologic I assume? You cant do much without one. They are £8k though.Hi,
Indies can be be very varied indeed seems to depend on the day of the week you drop the car off. I live in the east of england and have sent a couple of Classic Soft Dashes to the established recommended indies and have come back disappointed. First was a '94 3.9 V8 high on emissions and both indies failed to spot the problems which amounted to a faulty vacuum unit, low water level and non resistive plugs. One tried to charge £750 for new cats. The intial diagnosis also included the recommendation that the EAS valve block was replaced but oddly it's still working fine 4 years later. The second was a 95 RRC 300 TDi which had quote "over 40 problems with the EAS" to the point their code reader could not read the errors a quick check with black box's EAS kicker showed a single sensor problem so was obviously a diagnostic kit problem with the garage but they still charged £50 and wanted the car for a day minimum to deal with the "major" problems.
Having worked on cars for years for servcing, new builds and restorations it's a little cynical how indies justify their bill based on technology. Fair enough we all need to earn a crust but when you try and charge customers for problems with your own equipment or knowledge there's a line. Few can argue that checking the basic fundamentals warrant more than an hour or so.
Cheers,
Mike
Indies can be be very varied indeed seems to depend on the day of the week you drop the car off. I live in the east of england and have sent a couple of Classic Soft Dashes to the established recommended indies and have come back disappointed. First was a '94 3.9 V8 high on emissions and both indies failed to spot the problems which amounted to a faulty vacuum unit, low water level and non resistive plugs. One tried to charge £750 for new cats. The intial diagnosis also included the recommendation that the EAS valve block was replaced but oddly it's still working fine 4 years later. The second was a 95 RRC 300 TDi which had quote "over 40 problems with the EAS" to the point their code reader could not read the errors a quick check with black box's EAS kicker showed a single sensor problem so was obviously a diagnostic kit problem with the garage but they still charged £50 and wanted the car for a day minimum to deal with the "major" problems.
Having worked on cars for years for servcing, new builds and restorations it's a little cynical how indies justify their bill based on technology. Fair enough we all need to earn a crust but when you try and charge customers for problems with your own equipment or knowledge there's a line. Few can argue that checking the basic fundamentals warrant more than an hour or so.
Cheers,
Mike
The independant local to me used to work for landrover so has a bit of experience there.
Had a L322, RRS and a series 2 in the last time i was there.
Worked on my freelander with no problems, the cars going to him for a service in the next week as well.
Has rebuilt over 50 defenders onto galavnised chassis as well.
Races a 5.0 JE Engineering V8 powered wildcat as well.
Had a L322, RRS and a series 2 in the last time i was there.
Worked on my freelander with no problems, the cars going to him for a service in the next week as well.
Has rebuilt over 50 defenders onto galavnised chassis as well.
Races a 5.0 JE Engineering V8 powered wildcat as well.
Gazzab said:
Zumbruk said:
I'm a very happy customer of Rogers of Bedford, and they seem to know their way round the technology. They've certainly rebuilt a number of Disco3s which are supposed to be very picky about which bits of the car will "talk" to which other bits. The service manager was boasting about the new diagnostic computer they'd just bought the last time I went in there.
Autologic I assume? You cant do much without one. They are £8k though.Yep, that's the beasty.
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