Stelvio Pass & other hoonage - thoughts/opinions/options?

[spenny_b]

Evening folks,

Wonder if I can counsel your collective experience please, with a (rather last minute-ish) European drive-out that my Brother and I are about to embark on?

I didn't go to Le Mans this year, and am now getting the itch to finally do the "Evo" style roads that so far have never got squeezed into the annual schedule. Looking to leave in the next fortnight to 3 weeks. Probably leave early on a Thursday, returning late afternoon on the Monday.

So far, we've only decided upon 3 things:

1) Stelvio Pass is a "must"
2) No longer than 5 days
3) Going in one car, my GT3

Unfortunately, due to the time constraint, we're not going to be able to get across to the SW of France to do Millau and Ventoux - leave that for another trip....or the PH Alpine Hoon

Having not gone to Le Mans this year, we're more than happy to camp along the way (in fact missing camping/BBQ'ing/chilling outside) - if the weather's bad or we're particularly knackered, then equally happy to stop off at an Ibis or similar; not looking for 5 star, as it's only going to be an overnight base before heading off again the next day.

So, based upon a Crumball Rally event that we did a few years ago, we're notionally thinking that once on French soil (we live near Dover, so that bit's easy!), head through Reims to Besancon, maybe get a little further than that on Day 1....or are we better to head towards Mulhouse/Zurich?...Besancon>Montreux>Turin on the Crumball was particularly nice but perhaps not the most direct for Stelvio.

Day 2 get to the Stelvio Pass. Not sure which other passes we're going to attempt yet, but they'll need to be local(ish). Stay locally to the Stelvio and use Day 3 for tooling about as well.

Day 4 start heading back home but must be via some interesting/memorable scenery. Stay that night within 4-5 hours of the port.

Day 5 finish the journey up to Calais, catch the ferry and be home for tea, thus seeing the little person before bedtime...happy days.

Definitely not up for motorway schleps unless for some reason we get caught out on time. Also want to use a different route on the return leg than going.

Stuttgart for the new Porsche museum would be nice
Nurburgring for a lap and a hotdog also would be a major tick!

So, question is, does that sound sensible/feasible?
Any recommendations?

I've pinched this from MrGman's thread, but in the time we have(n't), it's going to be difficult to string more than a handful of these together (I assume?), but if I were to look at, say, the top 5 or 6, which would they be? --->

Susten pass
Grimsel Pass
Furka Pass
Klausen Pass
Fluela Pass
A'lbula Pass
Julier Pass
Foscagno Pass
Stelvio Pass
Umbrail Pass
Ofen Pass
Jeufen Pass
Rombo Pass
Edelweisspitze
Grossglockner
Mendel Pass

After the route is sussed, next step will be to plan potential overnight stop-off locations - again, any experiences welcome - ideally just want nice safe (and clean!) campsites, somewhere where we can wander down to the local hostelry for a refreshing scoop. Alternatively, "Ibis type" hotels that have safe car parks that a GT3 will be able to negotiate without leaving a splitter as a souvenir!

Thanks for any thoughts, recommendations and advice.

Spenny_b

[Stuart J]

Weve found the campanile chain to be excelent & cheap, We use them a lot on runs for stop overs. http://www.campanile.com/en/hotels/index.aspx
If you want to stretch the trip slightly & depending on your route go out the night before & run down to Reims, nice Campaneille & you can look at the old race track in the morning.

IMO ventoux is a must & a far better drive than Stelvio (unlesss you are a hairpin addict)although Stelvio is certainy a box to tick, the tour de france is going up Ventoux on Friday which means the surface will have been prepared to perfection. Millaux is just a bridge albeit a pretty impressive one. The best part of visiting Millau is going down into the Tarn Gorge for a play although that will be heaving until October.
If you go to Ventoux plan for an early morning run up before breakfast as the road will be virtually empty & any cyclists will be going up so easy to avoid, when they start coming down they have a death wish, corners are straightlined & speeds can be over 50 mph

Remember its now the continentals holiday season so try & avoid the bottle knecks at the weekends, motorways can be a complete pain queuing for the tolls. If you intend doing a lot of motorwatys in france get a http://www.thisfrenchlife.com/thisfrenchlife/2005/... it
means you can go straight through albeit slowly !! & its charged to your credit card.

Another link in English but not sure if you pay the same as buying direct http://www.tolltickets.com/country/france/libert.a...

Edited by Stuart J on Wednesday 15th July 08:54

[Furyblade_Lee]

The Flueala Pass is a MUST. In fact, the Davos to Stelvio Route Top Gear did in the Green GT3RS, Aston N24 and Lambo is as they described, one of the best driving roads in the world. Fluela Pass is part of it. We drove Switzerland on a Sunday in June but apart from the Grimselpass saw very little Traffic. Basically clear roads to ourselves despite what we had been told about traffic. Have fun!

[spenny_b]

Thanks for your replies chaps...very helpful indeed.

Have been out today and bought the map-that-covers-the-diningroom-table (much to my Wife's disgust)...surprising how close most of these passes are. With a bit of deft planning, I reckon we can cover off a fair few of the above list.

[tinman0]

OP said:

Susten pass
Grimsel Pass
Furka Pass
Fluela Pass
A'lbula Pass
Julier Pass
Foscagno Pass
Stelvio Pass
Umbrail Pass

Susten is good fun
Grimsel is superb on both sides
Furka is great on both sides
Fluela is rubbish. Sorry to the other poster but I always find this road tedious and boring.
Albula is a superb pass in parts, but the closer to the top you get the worse the road conditions. South side of the pass is a "meh".
Julier is superb fun and can be a fast pass on the way down. I cooked a set of brakes in 3 corners on the way down simply because you can enter them at high speed.
Foscagno - if its the one near Tirano/Aprica that takes you to the Edolo road, its not a driving pass per se. Its a tight little narrow scrap of road that you can only prey nothing is coming down.
Stelvio, good fun as always
Umbrail, gravel road for the top half but the bottom half is fun. There is one cafe restuarant on the road but it only takes CASH. The only problem is that the motorbikers on the top half of Umbrail will not let you pass. Total wkers. Whilst they have zero grip and dawdle they will prevent you passing at all costs.

Bernina, south side is good fun, as is a drop into Livigno for cheap cheap petrol (2/3rds the price). Gavia is pretty good also, but its not a driving pass, more a "lets hope this road widens before we meet another car".

You are missing Nufenen which is a bit of a laugh, and La Tremola which is the original St Gotthard and a bh to find from the bottom. La Tremola is not a driving pass, but it is fun none the less for scaring the crap out of your passengers.

If you haven't got hotels sorted, then I can recommend Hotel Metzgern in Sarnen for the start of Grimsel, Susten, Nufenen, Furka and La Tremola, and Gasthouse Sternen in Andermatt (find the bridge in the middle of the high street crescent. You will see a big hotel on side of the river, and next door to that is a little 5 room gasthouse with the very friendly Simona. (reasonably priced as well, guest house, not Simona).

[Furyblade_Lee]

Fluela "Rubbish"???! Thats the funniest thing i read in the last 3 minutes! a) NONE of the passes are rubbish and b) I suppose what you drive there makes a difference. My R1 bike power or his GT3 are probobly up to it, just.

[tinman0]

Furyblade_Lee said:

Fluela "Rubbish"???! Thats the funniest thing i read in the last 3 minutes! a) NONE of the passes are rubbish and b) I suppose what you drive there makes a difference. My R1 bike power or his GT3 are probobly up to it, just.

Sorry, don't think Fluela compares with the rest. The scenery is mediocre in comparison to the rest, and its a road that just doesn't seem to end.

I personally wouldn't go out of my way for Fluela, and considering the choices in the immediate area are Stelvio, Gavia, Livigno, Bernina, Albula, it comes a pretty poor 6th in that area alone. Thats before you consider Grimsel, Furka, Nufenen, Susten in the west.

But then what would I know, I only make my living driving these passes

[RainerM]

Hallo Justin

I agrre with you, Fluela is not high on my favourites, despite the fact I am just living down the road. It can get very bumpy :-((, but there are some nice corners :-)) as on every road.

Enjoy your mountain-drives.

Rainer-CH

[spenny_b]

Blimey, loads of info!...thanks again chaps.

Brakes were on the list of "things to do but not needing attention just yet", however, a mate has just offered me a pair of Alcon front discs - that plus some new pads I'm thinking is a prudent choice!!

Seriously can't wait - don't think I've been this excited about a holiday for a very long time (he says, consulting diary to see if a 6th day could be stretched)

Just been on Bridge-to-Gantry to see if it's a public day for the Monday we're going to be in that neck of the woods - lo-and-behold it is, and I reckon it'd be disgustingly rude not to...

[terryb]

I think the Umbrail pass was one of the best we drove on the Scooby Stelvio Tour in 2005 - towards the top it felt like a linar landscape from the moon
The Klausen pass is also good, but can be congested, but the Furka/ Grimsel/ Susten passes can all be done in a day and are better than the Stelvio.

[martinvantage]

All this is really helpful, but leaving me spoilt for choice. Have 4 days ( 2 days around Davos, 2 days Lake Maggiore) taking the OH - first time in the Alps in a Vantage. Will need to ensure that scenery mtches driving enjoyment to persuade OH of the wisdom of the trip. Top suggestions anyone?

[tinman0]

martinvantage said:

All this is really helpful, but leaving me spoilt for choice. Have 4 days ( 2 days around Davos, 2 days Lake Maggiore) taking the OH - first time in the Alps in a Vantage. Will need to ensure that scenery mtches driving enjoyment to persuade OH of the wisdom of the trip. Top suggestions anyone?

Lake Maggiore - SS337

We stayed in a guest house in either Re or Folsogno, which had a beautiful view of the valley. The road itself is great driving road.

If you follow the road to the west, it should pop out on the Simplon pass road. Head north over Simplon. At the other end of Simplon (eg the bottom), take a right. Follow that road up to Nufenen pass which will be on your right. Go over Nufenen, and join the motorway that heads south out of Switzerland. From that, you can make a loop back to Lake Maggiore.

If you don't want to go over Nufenen, then stay on the road and go past the Nufenen exit. Keeping going, go up Gletsch (which is a small pass in its own right). That will then put you at the bottom of Grimsel and bottom of Furka.

It is worth going up Grimsel as it'll take about 6 minutes if driven with spirit, and 10 minutes back down again. Don't bother going up and over Grimsel to Meiringen. Just go to the top and come str.aight back down. Then take a left at the bottom and head over Furka pass to Andermatt.

In Andermatt, follow north for the motorway, and then go south through St Gotthard tunnel.

When you do this, you will go through a small gorge. There are stopping places. For the love of God, stop there for a moment. You don't need to go too far into the gorge to see the stopping point. You will see markings of the devil and a couple of excellent bridge work. Essentially, the residents of Andermatt made a deal with the devil. In return for him building the first bridge (we are talking 1100AD), the devil would get the soul of the first who crossed. The town folk agreed. The devil built a bridge and the town folk sent a goat across the bridge. The devil was furious. Picked up a huge boulder, and went to destroy the bridge he built, but an old lady talked him down, so he put the rock down.

When building the St Gotthard tunnel, the Swiss moved that rock, and modern mythology suggests that the big fire was the devil punishing them for moving his rock.

Anyway, I digress. head south on the motorway through the tunnel, and make that loop with Lake Maggiore.

HTH.

It is a good day's driving though so be warned.

Edited by tinman0 on Sunday 19th July 22:48

[martinvantage]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try out the route and let you knkow if it does the trick.
Thanks again

[RainerM]

This one is nice, too :-))



called Silvretta Hochalpenstrasse, website here:

http://www.silvretta-bielerhoehe.at/inhalt1/at/s/2...

various pics, costs EUR 11,50, caution is recommended as well exhausts "too open" ;-)
but otherwise a super-great road to drive.

PM me if you are interested to meet for a drink/beer around Davos.

Fingers crossed for sunny weather.

Rainer-CH

[kazino]

I did a similar trip last year in August. The furka pass was closed as I was starting it, so they made me turn back, this was due to snow and the cars that were coming down had a huge layer of it on them. Might be an idea to check on the day that they are not expecting heavy snow and if the pass is open to avoid disappointment

[tinman0]

kazino said:

I did a similar trip last year in August. The furka pass was closed as I was starting it, so they made me turn back, this was due to snow and the cars that were coming down had a huge layer of it on them. Might be an idea to check on the day that they are not expecting heavy snow and if the pass is open to avoid disappointment

My understanding is that you occasionally get a closed pass in the summer due to unexpected snow, but generally, you are pretty safe. In the 6 years I've been taking events through the Alps I think it was only last year that I found 1 pass closed, which thankfully we weren't going over that day.

June 1st to September 30th are your safe dates. May is not a good month as many of the passes are being cleared for the first time. The open ones may be open one day and closed the next.

I treat Grimsel as the test pass - when Grimsel opens, everything is open. I even got the hotel in the lake on Grimsel to move their webcam so I could see when the pass was open lol.

The locals generally aren't expecting snow until the end of October, maybe into November, however, if you are planning a trip, then I would avoid those two months.

Final tip of the day, drive the passes during the weekdays, as there will be a whole lot less bikers and cyclists.

[spenny_b]

Crikey, havent checked the thread for a week or so - yet more invaluable posts - thanks all.

We now have dates firmed up - booking ferry today.

Does anyone have experience of Norfolk Lines with low cars?...mines not the lowest a GT3 can go to, but still a right ar5e to get up and down anything approaching medium/steep slopes in multi-storey car parks.

If you ask nicely when checking in, do they radio ahead to the loading crew to get planks out? (top deck is definitely out - it's the loading ramp that unfolds from the back of the boat that has been 50/50 before with P&O)

Cheers
S

[Stuart J]

spenny_b said:

Crikey, havent checked the thread for a week or so - yet more invaluable posts - thanks all.

We now have dates firmed up - booking ferry today.

Does anyone have experience of Norfolk Lines with low cars?...mines not the lowest a GT3 can go to, but still a right ar5e to get up and down anything approaching medium/steep slopes in multi-storey car parks.

If you ask nicely when checking in, do they radio ahead to the loading crew to get planks out? (top deck is definitely out - it's the loading ramp that unfolds from the back of the boat that has been 50/50 before with P&O)

Cheers
S

I found them pretty good with a lowered zed, didnt have planks but guided me on & let me have the whole ramp to take at an angle. Also worth paying for the upgrade, you get a seperate lounge, free coffee etc & snacks & a cooked meal if you want for a little extra. When the ferries busy you are away from the hordes who just go round & round the fery giving you little peace. You are also assured of being one of the first off, we used them a few weeks ago & we were put in with the trucks at the very front so straight off

[spenny_b]

Thanks for the tip Stuart - may hop onto the Norfolk Line site later and see if I can upgrade.

[kazino]

Some very useful info there tinman, will take it onboard whenever I do a trip again. Like the website

tinman0 said:

kazino said:

I did a similar trip last year in August. The furka pass was closed as I was starting it, so they made me turn back, this was due to snow and the cars that were coming down had a huge layer of it on them. Might be an idea to check on the day that they are not expecting heavy snow and if the pass is open to avoid disappointment

My understanding is that you occasionally get a closed pass in the summer due to unexpected snow, but generally, you are pretty safe. In the 6 years I've been taking events through the Alps I think it was only last year that I found 1 pass closed, which thankfully we weren't going over that day.

June 1st to September 30th are your safe dates. May is not a good month as many of the passes are being cleared for the first time. The open ones may be open one day and closed the next.

I treat Grimsel as the test pass - when Grimsel opens, everything is open. I even got the hotel in the lake on Grimsel to move their webcam so I could see when the pass was open lol.

The locals generally aren't expecting snow until the end of October, maybe into November, however, if you are planning a trip, then I would avoid those two months.

Final tip of the day, drive the passes during the weekdays, as there will be a whole lot less bikers and cyclists.