Worried about TVR?
Discussion
Here is an old git business perspective ( with a dose of devils advocate thrown in to stimulate debate 
)
Is TVR going in the wrong direction?
1. New models every other month it seems, with little effort to establish design and build integrity, or to let a model mature and develop.
2. An absurd obsession with ignoring driver and safety aids, which surely alienate more buyers than they attract?
3. A too - domestic focus, with the aformentioned lack of build integrity and safety aids restricting the market and denying access to overseas markets.
4. A pointless obsession with own build engines, when even the major manufacturers are now sharing drivetrains to reduce costs and widen model ranges.
5. A poor strategy toward distribution, dependent on small owner managed businesses with little quality control - with the effect that some dealers offer poor service and are allowed to get away with it.
Would'nt a consultant, visiting the business, emplore them to reduce the range of models, build them better, take control of the dealer network, share technologies and get economy of scale with other engine manufacturers, and develop into new markets to diversify from dependence on the UK economy?
I would love to want to buy a TVR. But I could not bring myself to part with 50k to do so based on their current state.
IMO of course - chance of a debate?
) Is TVR going in the wrong direction?
1. New models every other month it seems, with little effort to establish design and build integrity, or to let a model mature and develop.
2. An absurd obsession with ignoring driver and safety aids, which surely alienate more buyers than they attract?
3. A too - domestic focus, with the aformentioned lack of build integrity and safety aids restricting the market and denying access to overseas markets.
4. A pointless obsession with own build engines, when even the major manufacturers are now sharing drivetrains to reduce costs and widen model ranges.
5. A poor strategy toward distribution, dependent on small owner managed businesses with little quality control - with the effect that some dealers offer poor service and are allowed to get away with it.
Would'nt a consultant, visiting the business, emplore them to reduce the range of models, build them better, take control of the dealer network, share technologies and get economy of scale with other engine manufacturers, and develop into new markets to diversify from dependence on the UK economy?
I would love to want to buy a TVR. But I could not bring myself to part with 50k to do so based on their current state.
IMO of course - chance of a debate?
Been beaten to it chap... www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=13&t=72036
toppstuff said:Nothing to debate. What you say is probably true, which is why TVR owners love them! Your prognosis is similar to that of Sir John Harvey Jones' assessment of Morgan 10-15 years ago, I assume you saw Trouble-shooters? Did Morgan wither and fail, did they heck! Consultants are too stuffed full of theory and know shit-all about real life emotion, which is why they are so often baffled by the success or failure of certain businesses. If that's your thoughts then fine, just buy a used Boxter and be contented, bet you won’t grin from ear to ear when you drive it though or take the long route to get a pint of milk and a newspaper
IMO of course - chance of a debate?
Rich...RichB said:
[quote=toppstuff]IMO of course - chance of a debate?
Nothing to debate. What you say is probably true, which is why TVR owners love them! Your prognosis is similar to that of Sir John Harvey Jones' assessment of Morgan 10-15 years ago, I assume you saw Trouble-shooters? Did Morgan wither and fail, did they heck! Consultants are too stuffed full of theory and know shit-all about real life emotion, which is why they are so often baffled by the success or failure of certain businesses. If that's your thoughts then fine, just buy a used Boxter and be contented, bet you won’t grin from ear to ear when you drive it though or take the long route to get a pint of milk and a newspaper
Rich...[/quote 
Carrera 4 actually.
I love the Griffith and Chim - great honest cars. My post was really highlighting a fear for the future of TVR. If the UK economy goes quiet TVR would be in big trouble - they have bigger operating costs than they need to have 'cos they make their own engines, and have no diversification into markets like the US ( the US economy is growing great guns at the moment - TVR have not got a cent out of it) .
TVR could be a major global brand to take on Ferrari and Porsche - but there is no chance of that with the current strategy. And I think that is a shame.
I'd like to see strong, safe, superbly built TVR's with amazing styling and 3 year factory warranties being sold in the US and around the world to an adoring public.
Instead we get yet another variation on an identical theme.
Ditch the own built engines, throw in an american V8, and warranty the damn thing for 3 years with proper and consistent dealers. Then they might grow beyond the UK, IMO.
toppstuff said:
I'd like to see strong, safe, superbly built TVR's with amazing styling and 3 year factory warranties being sold in the US and around the world to an adoring public.
Instead we get yet another variation on an identical theme.
Ditch the own built engines, throw in an american V8, and warranty the damn thing for 3 years with proper and consistent dealers. Then they might grow beyond the UK, IMO.
If they did this, they would lose a lot of what TVR is about.
If they start mass producing cars designed to satisfy the Americans, with the same old V8 that everyone else is using and all sorts of electronic gizmos fitted as standard, then I very much doubt that I would buy another one.
What makes TVR so special is the fact that they don't do this.
Going down this route may fix some of their perceived flaws, but it would also take away much of what makes these cars so special.
toppstuff said:
I'd like to see strong, safe, superbly built TVR's with amazing styling and 3 year factory warranties being sold in the US and around the world to an adoring public.
Instead we get yet another variation on an identical theme.
Ditch the own built engines, throw in an american V8, and warranty the damn thing for 3 years with proper and consistent dealers. Then they might grow beyond the UK, IMO.
Et voi-la, another invisible mass-market big-engined sports car. Therein lies the difference between TVR drivers and people who drool over them but buy an M3 or a Porsche or Dodge Viper etc. and long may it be that way! R...ehasler said:
I'd like to see strong, safe, superbly built TVR's with amazing styling and 3 year factory warranties being sold in the US and around the world to an adoring public.
Instead we get yet another variation on an identical theme.
Ditch the own built engines, throw in an american V8, and warranty the damn thing for 3 years with proper and consistent dealers. Then they might grow beyond the UK, IMO.
If they did this, they would lose a lot of what TVR is about.
If they start mass producing cars designed to satisfy the Americans, with the same old V8 that everyone else is using and all sorts of electronic gizmos fitted as standard, then I very much doubt that I would buy another one.
What makes TVR so special is the fact that they don't do this.
Going down this route may fix some of their perceived flaws, but it would also take away much of what makes these cars so special.
[sarcasm]
Yeah... could be just like the MGB... with those lovely plastic abscess bumpers in sprouted in '81...
[/sarcasm]
[/adenoid]
I would have thought, given the potential size of the US market, that it would be viable to develop a variant of an existing model for the US Market, using the same sort of exemptions that Lotus apparently has. Why not use the new Ford V8 as an engine base. TVR used to use to Rover V8 to great effect, which was originally an ancient US design.
Anyone wanting a 'softer' TVR as per the US spec. would then be able to have one here in RH drive.
Anyone wanting a 'softer' TVR as per the US spec. would then be able to have one here in RH drive.
Much as I might have mentioned in the past that I might possibly like to see a TVR with an M5 V8 I really want to see TVR succeed with the current in house engine designs. The speed 6 has the potential to be one of the great engines (perceived problems aside) and the ajp8 is a splendid bit of kit.
Yes quality needs to go up and if they are to take on the states then they need to ensure that they do not get drowned in litigation.
D.
Yes quality needs to go up and if they are to take on the states then they need to ensure that they do not get drowned in litigation.
D.
z_chromozone said:
BMW's S54 has a higher bhp/L than TVR, but not the overall output. I don't see any others out there that come closer.
Z
true enough and the new M5 will be 5.o and 500 bhp... very few manufacturers make a normally aspirated engine that will produce over 100bhp/l... kind of a benchmark figure i think.
TVR's core brand values are exactly what was posted at the start and precisely the reason why so many people love them... and exactly why after years of driving munichs finest I hanker after one. They are as close to a race car for the road you can get imo.
they are a brand that has a 100% passionate customer base, not many other car companies can say that.
toppstuff said:
TVR could be a major global brand to take on Ferrari and Porsche - but there is no chance of that with the current strategy. And I think that is a shame.
Ditch the own built engines, throw in an american V8, and warranty the damn thing for 3 years with proper and consistent dealers. Then they might grow beyond the UK, IMO.
Sorry, only just saw this now. Don't want to offend, but what a load of tosh! Like a manufacturer producing a car with a Ford engine is ever going to take on Ferrari or Porsche! Come on mate, you're having a giraffe! The reason why PW is obsessed with TVR producing their own engine is because this is the only way they could ever hope to be taken seriously, instead of forever being associated with the kit-car market, which has to use others peoples engines.
AlexH said:
TVR could be a major global brand to take on Ferrari and Porsche - but there is no chance of that with the current strategy. And I think that is a shame.
Ditch the own built engines, throw in an american V8, and warranty the damn thing for 3 years with proper and consistent dealers. Then they might grow beyond the UK, IMO.
Sorry, only just saw this now. Don't want to offend, but what a load of tosh! Like a manufacturer producing a car with a Ford engine is ever going to take on Ferrari or Porsche! Come on mate, you're having a giraffe! The reason why PW is obsessed with TVR producing their own engine is because this is the only way they could ever hope to be taken seriously, instead of forever being associated with the kit-car market, which has to use others peoples engines.
I guess I mean that I don't have a problem with TVR producing their own engines, but it does seem an expensive way to go about it. They are a small manufacturer, and exposed to the risk of economic downturn in the UK.
Perhaps if they used an imported V8 the money saved could be used in better reliability, getting into new markets such as the US, and building a better dealer network. They might arguably be further ahead than they are now if they had done this.
TVR have acheived miracles on limited funds. But would they be healthier and sold in more countries if they had kept the styling ( the best bit IMO) and were a little more conservative with engine strategy. Whats wrong with a quad-can 500hp V8 anyway?
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