My inner boy racer - guilty admission
Discussion
Heh. I'm supposedly middle aged but every so often get the 'boy racer' urge to play about 
My other half isn't too well so wanted me to pop out and get something from the supermarket - too late for Waitrose next door so a short drive out to Sainsbury's, which is out on a mini retail park with a Homebase and a Halfords. The Halfords is, unsurprisingly, where the local boy racer / cruise type crew hang around. Outside the shops is a roundabout to take you either straight back into town, or a short section of dual carriageway out to the next village. It's a typical 'test route' where you can do a full acceleration and heavy braking (italian tune-up, etc. - I've used it for bedding new brake pads in) - no houses or any likely pedestrians on the bit of dual carriageway. And there's a speed display thingy at the end on the entrance to the village, so you get your speed right down.
Anyway having picked up what she needed, I started to drive out of the car park. Three Vauxhall hot hatches (and something else at the back which I didn't spot) were coming out at the same time, exhausts clearly audible over my 2bular, so instead of just taking the roundabout back into town and back home, I thought that I'd have a bit of fun with the boy racers Apart from the roundabout, the dual carriageway is a pure straight-line drag so it'd certainly not be a sure result for the Lotus - obviously very few hot hatches (other than dedicated track machinery) would 'have me in the corners' when I'm in a Lotus, but plenty of cars have more straight-line pace. And having previously owned the VX220 turbo, I do like Vauxhall's engines, I think they make good motors and front mounted in the hatches, they are very tunable. It'd be fun to see whether these lads had anything crazy under the bonnet
Two cars came out of the car park before me - a new-shape Astra VXR up front (Z20LEH, good engine, 237 bhp if standard), followed by a modified Corsa (very few cosmetic modifications, it wasn't a 'cruise' car - the brakes and suspension gave the game away - and since engine transplants from the 2 litre XE nasp to the Z20LEH from the Astra VXR are popular, it could have had anything under the bonnet). Two other cars from the same group followed up - I'd basically cheekily nipped into the middle of their 'pack'
The presence of a bright yellow Exige certainly got the lads interested - and I could hear them immediately nail it towards the (thankfully) empty road outside. The roundabout was empty, visibility excellent in both directions and nobody coming. To get onto the dual carriageway, you had to turn right, so a 270 degree corner followed by the empty road. The cheeky buggers thought they'd out-corner an Exige on A048Rs!!! No chance of that, and I came out of the roundabout a good 10-20 mph faster than the Corsa, which I then screamed past on the dual carriageway. It can't have had a turbo transplant as I came past a bit too easily (200 bhp in what appeared to be quite stripped-out would be very nippy) - I reckon it may have had an XE 2 litre transplant. The Astra at the front of the line though - blimey those things are fast. I couldn't accelerate any harder or change gear faster, and the Astra didn't pull away, but I couldn't catch him up.
This is a very short section of dual carriageway, so no silly speeds involved, and before I knew it it was time to anchor down to 30 for the village. Good clean fun and I got (and gave) a friendly wave as I turned off back towards town as the 4 cars went off in their direction (wherever that was going to be).
Interesting stuff and shows very clearly just how insanely quick modern hot hatches have become. I like the Z20LET engine that I had in my VX220 turbo, and that Astra has an evolution (Z20LEH) of that engine, with a better turbocharger. With the front mounting in the hatchback Astra, the engine can be easily tuned to large outputs. However, alongside having these great engines, modern hot hatches have also put on a lot of weight. Unlike my old 205 GTi 1.9, which was lighter than my Exige and handled fantastically, the Astra VXR (according to the 'net) weighs 1393 kg, which is a hell of a lot (I just looked that up and was seriously surprised at how big the number was!!!!).
So that particular boy racer had some tasty engine mods done. Yes, the Exige is lardy for a Lotus, but it's 930 kg and has around 200 bhp (I haven't made any power mods to the car yet) - whereas the Astra is pretty much 50% heavier. It wasn't getting away from me but I couldn't catch it (on a short section of road without speeds getting big enough for aerodynamics to make much of a difference) so power-to-weight must have been similar. So around 300 bhp. Through the front wheels.
How things have changed... I haven't owned a modern hot hatch (newest car that 'sort of' fell into that class was my old Racing Puma) but as petrolheads, we all used to consider FWD inferior to RWD and limited by torque steer, wheelspin, and proper power simply wasn't sensible in FWD cars. Yet here we have a factory car without any obvious 'heavy' modifications, pumping out 300 bhp. And of course, the new Focus RS has 300 bhp and FWD.
Just a bit of fun, and conditions were safe for a quick blat down that road, so hopefully the number of rolleye responses for 'racing on the road' will be limited
Crazy how fast the Astra was though. I don't know how much 'fun to drive' they are, I don't see them that frequently on trackdays so I haven't had the opportunity of a pax lap in one of the new 'red hot' hatches like the VXR and the Focus RS. As long as they're not too bad though, if I ever had to give up the Growler for a smaller 'sensible' family-capable car, then one of these would be at the top of the list. Or an older one with a retro-fit of the latest engine. It's amazing how powerful modern 2 litre engines have got, really - given the expected reliability and longevity of these mass-market cars... and another reason why the Europa, properly tuned, ought to be utterly superb Certainly it's making a fair case for itself in the Elise Trophy races, but has a superb driver which accounts for a large proportion of it...
My other half isn't too well so wanted me to pop out and get something from the supermarket - too late for Waitrose next door so a short drive out to Sainsbury's, which is out on a mini retail park with a Homebase and a Halfords. The Halfords is, unsurprisingly, where the local boy racer / cruise type crew hang around. Outside the shops is a roundabout to take you either straight back into town, or a short section of dual carriageway out to the next village. It's a typical 'test route' where you can do a full acceleration and heavy braking (italian tune-up, etc. - I've used it for bedding new brake pads in) - no houses or any likely pedestrians on the bit of dual carriageway. And there's a speed display thingy at the end on the entrance to the village, so you get your speed right down.Anyway having picked up what she needed, I started to drive out of the car park. Three Vauxhall hot hatches (and something else at the back which I didn't spot) were coming out at the same time, exhausts clearly audible over my 2bular, so instead of just taking the roundabout back into town and back home, I thought that I'd have a bit of fun with the boy racers
Apart from the roundabout, the dual carriageway is a pure straight-line drag so it'd certainly not be a sure result for the Lotus - obviously very few hot hatches (other than dedicated track machinery) would 'have me in the corners' when I'm in a Lotus, but plenty of cars have more straight-line pace. And having previously owned the VX220 turbo, I do like Vauxhall's engines, I think they make good motors and front mounted in the hatches, they are very tunable. It'd be fun to see whether these lads had anything crazy under the bonnet Two cars came out of the car park before me - a new-shape Astra VXR up front (Z20LEH, good engine, 237 bhp if standard), followed by a modified Corsa (very few cosmetic modifications, it wasn't a 'cruise' car - the brakes and suspension gave the game away - and since engine transplants from the 2 litre XE nasp to the Z20LEH from the Astra VXR are popular, it could have had anything under the bonnet). Two other cars from the same group followed up - I'd basically cheekily nipped into the middle of their 'pack'
The presence of a bright yellow Exige certainly got the lads interested - and I could hear them immediately nail it towards the (thankfully) empty road outside. The roundabout was empty, visibility excellent in both directions and nobody coming. To get onto the dual carriageway, you had to turn right, so a 270 degree corner followed by the empty road. The cheeky buggers thought they'd out-corner an Exige on A048Rs!!! No chance of that, and I came out of the roundabout a good 10-20 mph faster than the Corsa, which I then screamed past on the dual carriageway. It can't have had a turbo transplant as I came past a bit too easily (200 bhp in what appeared to be quite stripped-out would be very nippy) - I reckon it may have had an XE 2 litre transplant. The Astra at the front of the line though - blimey those things are fast. I couldn't accelerate any harder or change gear faster, and the Astra didn't pull away, but I couldn't catch him up.
This is a very short section of dual carriageway, so no silly speeds involved, and before I knew it it was time to anchor down to 30 for the village. Good clean fun and I got (and gave) a friendly wave as I turned off back towards town as the 4 cars went off in their direction (wherever that was going to be).
Interesting stuff and shows very clearly just how insanely quick modern hot hatches have become. I like the Z20LET engine that I had in my VX220 turbo, and that Astra has an evolution (Z20LEH) of that engine, with a better turbocharger. With the front mounting in the hatchback Astra, the engine can be easily tuned to large outputs. However, alongside having these great engines, modern hot hatches have also put on a lot of weight. Unlike my old 205 GTi 1.9, which was lighter than my Exige and handled fantastically, the Astra VXR (according to the 'net) weighs 1393 kg, which is a hell of a lot (I just looked that up and was seriously surprised at how big the number was!!!!).
So that particular boy racer had some tasty engine mods done. Yes, the Exige is lardy for a Lotus, but it's 930 kg and has around 200 bhp (I haven't made any power mods to the car yet) - whereas the Astra is pretty much 50% heavier. It wasn't getting away from me but I couldn't catch it (on a short section of road without speeds getting big enough for aerodynamics to make much of a difference) so power-to-weight must have been similar. So around 300 bhp. Through the front wheels.
How things have changed... I haven't owned a modern hot hatch (newest car that 'sort of' fell into that class was my old Racing Puma) but as petrolheads, we all used to consider FWD inferior to RWD and limited by torque steer, wheelspin, and proper power simply wasn't sensible in FWD cars. Yet here we have a factory car without any obvious 'heavy' modifications, pumping out 300 bhp. And of course, the new Focus RS has 300 bhp and FWD.
Just a bit of fun, and conditions were safe for a quick blat down that road, so hopefully the number of rolleye responses for 'racing on the road' will be limited
Crazy how fast the Astra was though. I don't know how much 'fun to drive' they are, I don't see them that frequently on trackdays so I haven't had the opportunity of a pax lap in one of the new 'red hot' hatches like the VXR and the Focus RS. As long as they're not too bad though, if I ever had to give up the Growler for a smaller 'sensible' family-capable car, then one of these would be at the top of the list. Or an older one with a retro-fit of the latest engine. It's amazing how powerful modern 2 litre engines have got, really - given the expected reliability and longevity of these mass-market cars... and another reason why the Europa, properly tuned, ought to be utterly superb Certainly it's making a fair case for itself in the Elise Trophy races, but has a superb driver which accounts for a large proportion of it... Not sure about the VXR but the RS is pretty good fun - based on a 45 min demo I preferred my Elise for interaction but the RS was very quick indeed - loads of license loosing torque in 4th and quite involving to drive - more torque steer than many journos admit to but steering was pretty good (esp. for an electronic setup.) Main downsides were over assisted brakes and a choppy ride, the later offset by the brilliant Recaros.
On track, a supercharged Elise would still take it - 1:27:7 for an Elise SC v 1:30:8 for an RS (Evo issue 131, same day Bedford West) but when you consider how much quicker an SC is to 100 than an RS, the SC isn't consolidating all that much in the corners....
Interestingly Evo timed a 205GTI 1.9 for the same feature - not sure how representative an old version would be but the time they quoted for it was 1:37:3.
On track, a supercharged Elise would still take it - 1:27:7 for an Elise SC v 1:30:8 for an RS (Evo issue 131, same day Bedford West) but when you consider how much quicker an SC is to 100 than an RS, the SC isn't consolidating all that much in the corners....
Interestingly Evo timed a 205GTI 1.9 for the same feature - not sure how representative an old version would be but the time they quoted for it was 1:37:3.
http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=compa...
the Astra's not that much slower on track.....
not bad to say you can get a months worth of shopping and 2 kids in the back too.....
the Astra's not that much slower on track.....
not bad to say you can get a months worth of shopping and 2 kids in the back too.....
Saw a Tuned Astra VRX at a Goodwood trackday (I was just watching) really quick, pretty much the fastest thing there. I warned one of the others on track who has in a S1 Exige to watch out for it. He thought I was taking the piss, he said afterwards he couldn't believe how quick it was.
It's really comparing chalk and cheese though. The Elise / Exige is not about absolute speed either in a straight line or round a bend - anyone who bought the car for that made a mistake. Instead its all about the way they drive, the feel through the steering, the simplicity of control. And the fact that they arent family shopping cars (however fast) but true sports cars.
I had a good natured little play with a VXR Astra a couple of weeks ago on a 15 mile stretch of ...ahem...private open road including long straights and testing corners and r'bouts.
I have Exige 240 PP
The Astra is a good car no doubt. It was very convincingly beaten in midrange pull and through the bends - weight weight weight.
But top end things will even out big time as the Exige has terrible drag.
I am also meant to be middle aged.
I have Exige 240 PP
The Astra is a good car no doubt. It was very convincingly beaten in midrange pull and through the bends - weight weight weight.
But top end things will even out big time as the Exige has terrible drag.
I am also meant to be middle aged.
Edited by aelord on Monday 20th July 11:45
Edited by aelord on Monday 20th July 11:56
The Astra is a quick car indeed. When my car used to be standard trim (NA), we did a dragrace on the autobahn (Germany - no silly speeds though) and I was amazed to see the Astra keeping up. To be honest, there wasn't anything in it at all from 60mph on. From a standing start though, you can get a good headstart on just about any car that is heavier. The gap widens significantly when you are going against any front-wheel-drive.
Since the mods, this has become less of a concern as the difference in straightline performance is a lot more. The best one I've had was following a Gallardo Spyder. From a rolling start, there wasn't anything in it. At lower speeds I had more grunt, but at higher (80mph+) speeds the tide turned.
A friends Evo VIII (360bhp or there abouts) wasn't that bad either. About the same until he hit his rev limiter and I got into 2nd cam with 2000 rpm to go... (nearly went into the back of his car!)
On the contrary, on highways, BMW 135i (the 300bhp bi-turbos) are very quick cars. You really notice the drag of the Exige!
Since the mods, this has become less of a concern as the difference in straightline performance is a lot more. The best one I've had was following a Gallardo Spyder. From a rolling start, there wasn't anything in it. At lower speeds I had more grunt, but at higher (80mph+) speeds the tide turned.
A friends Evo VIII (360bhp or there abouts) wasn't that bad either. About the same until he hit his rev limiter and I got into 2nd cam with 2000 rpm to go... (nearly went into the back of his car!)
On the contrary, on highways, BMW 135i (the 300bhp bi-turbos) are very quick cars. You really notice the drag of the Exige!
peter450 said:
No guilt required, it's quite obvious why people buy sports cars and thats to go fast, which is why i find all the moralising that goes on everytime someone even mentions having a mini race quite strange
Come on now - I'm just as guilty of a bit of "racing" as the OP but I admit it's bloody daft. Going fast is one thing, racing is another altogetherbordseye said:
peter450 said:
No guilt required, it's quite obvious why people buy sports cars and thats to go fast, which is why i find all the moralising that goes on everytime someone even mentions having a mini race quite strange
Come on now - I'm just as guilty of a bit of "racing" as the OP but I admit it's bloody daft. Going fast is one thing, racing is another altogetherYou dont live in Andover do you? You describe the area very well..... 
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/boobles30/s...
We just have cars like this to contend with..
http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k174/boobles30/s...
We just have cars like this to contend with..
Edited by boobles on Thursday 23 July 22:09
I finished work early so decided to go for a run out over the moors today.
I followed a cack looking Nova for a while which containted two young skin headed chaps. They were driving fairly slowly with plenty of black smoke coming out of the back of their car so as soon as I reached the no limits sign I overtook them. Id accelerated pretty hard and gone a fair bit down the road when I looked in my mirror to see this Nova right up my chuff.
As we were going round the corner I discovered why. It sounded like he had an industrial vacuum under the bonnet. God knows what engine it was but it sounded like it was fitted with the turbo off a train. I could hear the whooshing sound over my exhaust which is silly loud.
Fair play to the lad. Crap rusty Nova but in a straight line didnt have any problems keeping up with mine. Made me laugh my arse off to be fair.
My mates got a 230 bhp Corsa VXR which I cant really loose in a straight line unless its from a standstill, but chuck any hint of a bend in the road and the Lotus pulls out a huge advantage. He was following me this morning and over the very twisty roads outside Hexham he disapeared to a spot in the mirror. In a straight line though, it is very very quick!
I followed a cack looking Nova for a while which containted two young skin headed chaps. They were driving fairly slowly with plenty of black smoke coming out of the back of their car so as soon as I reached the no limits sign I overtook them. Id accelerated pretty hard and gone a fair bit down the road when I looked in my mirror to see this Nova right up my chuff.
As we were going round the corner I discovered why. It sounded like he had an industrial vacuum under the bonnet. God knows what engine it was but it sounded like it was fitted with the turbo off a train. I could hear the whooshing sound over my exhaust which is silly loud.
Fair play to the lad. Crap rusty Nova but in a straight line didnt have any problems keeping up with mine. Made me laugh my arse off to be fair.
My mates got a 230 bhp Corsa VXR which I cant really loose in a straight line unless its from a standstill, but chuck any hint of a bend in the road and the Lotus pulls out a huge advantage. He was following me this morning and over the very twisty roads outside Hexham he disapeared to a spot in the mirror. In a straight line though, it is very very quick!
Had a few laps in a standard Astra VXR at one of the Vauxhall VXR trackdays at Croft a week or two back. It was quick, and and more assured in the bends than I was expecting, quite fun actually. Not as quick as my my st2 Vx220, but with 237 bhp standard, and front end cooling it wouldn't take much to a reach comparable power to weight ratio. As a practical, small family car I could be tempted.
aelord said:
I had a good natured little play with a VXR Astra a couple of weeks ago on a 15 mile stretch of ...ahem...private open road including long straights and testing corners and r'bouts.
I have Exige 240 PP
The Astra is a good car no doubt. It was very convincingly beaten in midrange pull and through the bends - weight weight weight.
But top end things will even out big time as the Exige has terrible drag.
I am also meant to be middle aged.
i have to agree with this. i have an S1 elise. 230bhp & 200lbs/ft (supercharged) and a little over 700kgs, and mine can see off a couple of 300bhp astra VXR's that go around my way with ease. they can't get anywhere close on any sort of acceleration measure. The astra that the OP raced must have been pushing out some serious power?I have Exige 240 PP
The Astra is a good car no doubt. It was very convincingly beaten in midrange pull and through the bends - weight weight weight.
But top end things will even out big time as the Exige has terrible drag.
I am also meant to be middle aged.
Edited by aelord on Monday 20th July 11:45
Edited by aelord on Monday 20th July 11:56
Tuning can be very expensive but can make the car very quick. The fastest car I have owned was a tuned type R subaru, which was much quicker than my exige 240 cup car. It was only about 1150 or so kgs, so not much more weight but had 345 bhp. Also had an extremely low gear ratio box, so only could do about 120mph....but could get to this speed in an instant. The subarus esp old skool ones like the type R are light, so are also very quick round the bends. So even in an exige you would have to be very committed into a bend to out run it.
Obviously the exige felt different to drive and was more of an experience to be in. Its sporty but not that fast. Problem is that you expect a sports car to be quick as thats what sports cars were like when I grew up. There was more of a gap between the Fezza, Porkers etc than the standard family car (well I think so...) but that gap is now much smaller even when considering the standard hot hatches let alone tuned ones.
Obviously the exige felt different to drive and was more of an experience to be in. Its sporty but not that fast. Problem is that you expect a sports car to be quick as thats what sports cars were like when I grew up. There was more of a gap between the Fezza, Porkers etc than the standard family car (well I think so...) but that gap is now much smaller even when considering the standard hot hatches let alone tuned ones.
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