4.2 XKR or 5.0 XK Portfolio
Discussion
Apart from the obvious likely difference in price has anyone any views on a comparison between the pre 2009 XKR and the latest unblown XK that could help me decide whether I should test a standard 5.0 XK as well as looking at the XKR?
I'm sure they are different to drive becasue of the supercharger but there is not a massive difference between the new model XK and old XKR, on paper at least.
I've had a look at a coup[le of XKR's now and been put off to date (on buying either of these two) by what is either a Jaguar penchant for paintwork that marks/scratches easily or just lazy dealer prep. The last one I viewed, whilst being low mileage, also had only just had it's annual (£10k service) after 18 months.
My recently departed C2S had great paint and was serviced in line with schedule, bit dissapointed in what I've seen so far. Lucky the drive put a big
on my face!
I'm sure they are different to drive becasue of the supercharger but there is not a massive difference between the new model XK and old XKR, on paper at least.
I've had a look at a coup[le of XKR's now and been put off to date (on buying either of these two) by what is either a Jaguar penchant for paintwork that marks/scratches easily or just lazy dealer prep. The last one I viewed, whilst being low mileage, also had only just had it's annual (£10k service) after 18 months.
My recently departed C2S had great paint and was serviced in line with schedule, bit dissapointed in what I've seen so far. Lucky the drive put a big
on my face!The paint finish you mention is standard now at Jaguar.We find simular problems with the XF.Peely effect across the lower half of the doors, no rust protection on the underside and a general lack of paint around the areas that you cannot see.
Still ,on a positive note use these points to brow beat the dealer . There is no reason why they cannot flat / polish the car in their paintshop. Sales are very quiet at present so they should fulfill your needs.
Both products are very good,I have no experience as yet of the new 5.0litre apart from the lack of a engine dipstick!, but technically it is a very advanced and economical unit compared to the blower version. So my advice woould be to go for the unblown version 5.0l.
Hope this helps.
Still ,on a positive note use these points to brow beat the dealer . There is no reason why they cannot flat / polish the car in their paintshop. Sales are very quiet at present so they should fulfill your needs.
Both products are very good,I have no experience as yet of the new 5.0litre apart from the lack of a engine dipstick!, but technically it is a very advanced and economical unit compared to the blower version. So my advice woould be to go for the unblown version 5.0l.
Hope this helps.
Owned a 2007MY 4.2XKR and just loved it. Also been able to drive the new 5ltr XKs. Whilst I would always have said go for the XKR over the XK, the new 2010MY cars are a huge step over the 4.2ltr XKs. The advanced dynamics make it a far more focused car. I think that the unblown 5.0ltr XK is just as quick as the 4.2 XKR. As for the paint, mine was a 3 mnth old demo in midnight black and was scratched to bits. Spent a few hundred getting it polished out and never had an issue again as long as it is looked after. RW774 talks about lack of paint in plAces, but I think Jag paint is excellent, much better than Aston.
My vote is go for the 5ltr XK , but if you can go for the 5.0ltr XKR, it us mind blowing.
My vote is go for the 5ltr XK , but if you can go for the 5.0ltr XKR, it us mind blowing.
I know there is some fancy device for extratcting the oil through a tube,I don`t believe they have a dipstick either.So Jaguar save a fortune on replacement drain plugs! Probably some silly electronic reset required, but you have no idea the condition of the oil.You cannot smell it, or feel it.
A very stupid idea.
A very stupid idea.
Unblown 5.0L 2010MY XK is a great car - Test drive it. The 10MY car is superior in every department. Full dynamic mode - better fuel consumption - Nicer Interior fittings - Did I mention the torque? Don't drive a 5.0L XKR. You'll have serious crisis of bank manager/conscience. That C2S will just be wheezy asthmatic memory 
As for the comments on lack of dipstick - Google top down servicing - BMW and Merc already do this in order to pass the savings onto the customer in terms of service time/cost. Think electronic notification via the cluster of low oil warning level and to remove the oil a big dirty vacuum cleaner
As for the comments on lack of dipstick - Google top down servicing - BMW and Merc already do this in order to pass the savings onto the customer in terms of service time/cost. Think electronic notification via the cluster of low oil warning level and to remove the oil a big dirty vacuum cleaner
cardigankid said:
RW you are doing a very comprehensive job of talking down the Jaguar brand, on this and a whole series of threads. Not being confrontational - just a comment.
ive noticed this too, very tedious - I get the feeling maybe he's been 'snubbed' by Jaguar in the past, seems to have an axe to grind with regard to modern Jaguars?back on topic - the 5.0 is a much more sporty 'aggressive' car, even in normally aspirated form - more taut suspension, meatier steering, firmer feeling brakes, 'revvier'/louder engine... the 4.2 XKR is comfier, more relaxed ...
which you prefer will come down to personal preference, i would recommend you at least try a 5.0 if its in your budget.
(but not a 5.0R because then you will be spoilt with the extra power!)
Thanks for all the comments, much appreciated.
I've found what looks like a good 4.2L XKR, one of the run out models. I feel I need to test the 5.0L now though so I'll avoid taking the plunge until after the weekend when I'll hopefully TD the 2010MY car.
I'll avoid the 5.0L XKR as i don't want to spend that much but know I'll get sucked in if I so much as go near one!
Surprised I'm not missing the Porsche but also suprised it has been referred to as an asthmatic wheeze
I've found what looks like a good 4.2L XKR, one of the run out models. I feel I need to test the 5.0L now though so I'll avoid taking the plunge until after the weekend when I'll hopefully TD the 2010MY car.
I'll avoid the 5.0L XKR as i don't want to spend that much but know I'll get sucked in if I so much as go near one!
Surprised I'm not missing the Porsche but also suprised it has been referred to as an asthmatic wheeze
Well, after weighing up a few pro's and con's I've taken the plunge with a 58 plate XKR. Lots of irrational reasons as well as rational ones but I'm happy I've gone for the right car.
Looks great in Black with Vortex alloys, full leather, dynamic sporting pack and B&W sound. Basically an XKR-S without the body kit!
Can't wait to pick her up next week.
Thanks again for everyone who has passed comment and added their views!
Looks great in Black with Vortex alloys, full leather, dynamic sporting pack and B&W sound. Basically an XKR-S without the body kit!
Can't wait to pick her up next week.
Thanks again for everyone who has passed comment and added their views!
I saw that XKR on Autotrader ( I believe) with Vortex alloys from the Barnet Dealer? 58 reg, 9k miles? But now it's dropped off the listings so I can't ogle it again. It looked simply awesome, it really did, easily the best sub-£50k XK advertised. Did you get much off the £50k asking? Lucky both of us didn't go for it, it would have been an horrendous dutch auction, the dealer would have felt like a dog with two c**ks! If you pardon the expression.
Mattmeister said:
cardigankid said:
RW you are doing a very comprehensive job of talking down the Jaguar brand, on this and a whole series of threads. Not being confrontational - just a comment.
ive noticed this too, very tedious - I get the feeling maybe he's been 'snubbed' by Jaguar in the past, seems to have an axe to grind with regard to modern Jaguars?back on topic - the 5.0 is a much more sporty 'aggressive' car, even in normally aspirated form - more taut suspension, meatier steering, firmer feeling brakes, 'revvier'/louder engine... the 4.2 XKR is comfier, more relaxed ...
which you prefer will come down to personal preference, i would recommend you at least try a 5.0 if its in your budget.
(but not a 5.0R because then you will be spoilt with the extra power!)
In many ways Jaguars appear to me to have descended to the quality and reliability levels that you'd expect on a 1980 mass produced French hatchback - not a very expensive prestige car. JEN it was known as in the workshop - Just Enough Engineering - just enough for it to just about work for a just enough period of time after the warranty expired to just about stop the customer complaining and no longer.
A recent Which? survey put the new XF and S Type in the top 10 least reliable cars. Why? If Honda can produce a bomb-proof, beautifully made and reliable car that's consistently at the top of the reliability charts for £12k why don't you get the same or even better when you spend three of four times as much on a Jaguar?
That's why I've not bought a replacement for my ageing X308 - there's no way I'm forking out fifteen to twenty grand on another XJ until I'm convinced it's a quality product that's made to last and not going to have any nasty suprises just waiting to ambush my wallet. So far from what I've seen of the early to mid 2000 models they certainly don't appear to be, the consistency of panel gaps, tactile feel, component quality and general fit and finish on my 12 year old Ford van is better than both my current XJ and the 350s I've driven. In terms of ride comfort and build quality and "issues" my mate's ancient Omega is streets ahead of my XJ.
My pampered and carefully driven XJ has more rattles than my abused and thrashed van too and I'm actually appauled by the paint finish I've seen on some early X350's. A couple I have looked at in grey look like they've just had a over glossy, orange peely re spray done in cellulose in a back street garage rather than been through a multi million pound paint shop in the factory.
Edited by Jaguar steve on Friday 31st July 08:18
Jaguar steve said:
I have an axe to grind with modern Jaguars too. The whole "sealed for life" philosophy and cost driven engineering - just a few examples, plastic bodied timing chain tensioners, lack of gearbox and 'diff servicing leading to premature failure, extended service intervals resulting in chronic engine wear, and general loss of a quality feel is nothing short of insulting IMO. The lack of a drain plug on the new V8 is laughable - that's throwaway engineering in the name of pretending it's technical progress gone completely barking mad.
In many ways Jaguars appear to me to have descended to the quality and reliability levels that you'd expect on a 1980 mass produced French hatchback - not a very expensive prestige car. JEN it was known as in the workshop - Just Enough Engineering - just enough for it to just about work for a just enough period of time after the warranty expired to just about stop the customer complaining and no longer.
A recent Which? survey put the new XF and S Type in the top 10 least reliable cars. Why? If Honda can produce a bomb-proof, beautifully made and reliable car that's consistently at the top of the reliability charts for £12k why don't you get the same or even better when you spend three of four times as much on a Jaguar?
That's why I've not bought a replacement for my ageing X308 - there's no way I'm forking out fifteen to twenty grand on another XJ until I'm convinced it's a quality product that's made to last and not going to have any nasty suprises just waiting to ambush my wallet. So far from what I've seen of the early to mid 2000 models they certainly don't appear to be, the consistency of panel gaps, tactile feel, component quality and general fit and finish on my 12 year old Ford van is better than both my current XJ and the 350s I've driven.
My pampered and carefully driven XJ has more rattles than my abused and thrashed van too and I'm actually appauled by the paint finish I've seen on some early X350's. A couple I have looked at in grey look like they've just had a over glossy, orange peely re spray done in cellulose in a back street garage rather than been through a multi million pound paint shop in the factory.
agree completely with you Steve, though my 2001 XK has no rattles at all with an engine that drinks no oil and still feels tight. but i have noticed some rust starting to appear which is alittle disappointing. Compared to my 06 Saab, the jag is a much more reliable car. I don't think the German competition is any better, my cars usually get looked after by good friend who is a BMW master tech, his comments on 'modern cars' confirms exactly with your comments 'fit for purpose for 60K miles'. In many ways Jaguars appear to me to have descended to the quality and reliability levels that you'd expect on a 1980 mass produced French hatchback - not a very expensive prestige car. JEN it was known as in the workshop - Just Enough Engineering - just enough for it to just about work for a just enough period of time after the warranty expired to just about stop the customer complaining and no longer.
A recent Which? survey put the new XF and S Type in the top 10 least reliable cars. Why? If Honda can produce a bomb-proof, beautifully made and reliable car that's consistently at the top of the reliability charts for £12k why don't you get the same or even better when you spend three of four times as much on a Jaguar?
That's why I've not bought a replacement for my ageing X308 - there's no way I'm forking out fifteen to twenty grand on another XJ until I'm convinced it's a quality product that's made to last and not going to have any nasty suprises just waiting to ambush my wallet. So far from what I've seen of the early to mid 2000 models they certainly don't appear to be, the consistency of panel gaps, tactile feel, component quality and general fit and finish on my 12 year old Ford van is better than both my current XJ and the 350s I've driven.
My pampered and carefully driven XJ has more rattles than my abused and thrashed van too and I'm actually appauled by the paint finish I've seen on some early X350's. A couple I have looked at in grey look like they've just had a over glossy, orange peely re spray done in cellulose in a back street garage rather than been through a multi million pound paint shop in the factory.
The current X350 has signs of alu bubbling on the early cars which i can see becoming a problem in a couple of years when all the cars are out of the paint/body warranty. That won't be cheap or easy to fix.
Sunday-Driver, you've got the right car, and yes you're probbaly right about it being the best sub £50k car - by quite a country mile from the one's I've looked at. They did budge a bit on the price and I got a few bits chucked in for free.
I'm equally glad we didn't end up chasing the same car!
CardiganKid, I'll post up some pics after I pick her up next week.
I'm also not quite sure how this thread has ended up with a bit of Jag bashing going on, but from my experience every Marque has it's own issues - as a previous 996 & 997 owner I can tell you I've spent many a waking moment in the night wondering if the lump that sat behind me was going to expire next time I drove the car.
Looking forward to the Jag experience - and yes I'm sure it will have its moments both good and bad!
I'm equally glad we didn't end up chasing the same car!
CardiganKid, I'll post up some pics after I pick her up next week.
I'm also not quite sure how this thread has ended up with a bit of Jag bashing going on, but from my experience every Marque has it's own issues - as a previous 996 & 997 owner I can tell you I've spent many a waking moment in the night wondering if the lump that sat behind me was going to expire next time I drove the car.
Looking forward to the Jag experience - and yes I'm sure it will have its moments both good and bad!
I'm not really sure it's Jag bashing for the sake of it - most of the posters on here are owners and enthusiasts who are pretty loyal to the marque.
But it's true that have been a lot of quality and poor maintainence procedure problems in the recent past that in my view are unnaceptable on any car let alone a very expensive prestige one. If you are not aware of what's gone wrong and live in the - not unreasonable - expectation such an expensive modern car will easily manage a high mileage without somthing very expensive failing then you're probrably in for a surprise. Far too many risks with engineering integrity have been taken in order to reduce weight, component cost and maintainence requirements - the result? Burnt out gearboxes, terminally overheated engines, snapped timing chains and smashed valves and pistons and whining axles at maybe just five or six years into the car's life. A simple component failing because a few pennies have been saved in manufacture doing so much expensive damage that a perfectly good car with the potential of several years life in it is easily an economic right off.
Jaguar of course aren't the only prestige car manufacturers who have lost the quality plot, you'll hear equally scary stories from other marques too - my BiL had run Mercedes for decades and had no end of grief with some of them. My point really was this. If Honda, Nissan et al can manage robust real world quality and long term reliability at a modest price then why don't you get at least the same when you pay so much more?
But it's true that have been a lot of quality and poor maintainence procedure problems in the recent past that in my view are unnaceptable on any car let alone a very expensive prestige one. If you are not aware of what's gone wrong and live in the - not unreasonable - expectation such an expensive modern car will easily manage a high mileage without somthing very expensive failing then you're probrably in for a surprise. Far too many risks with engineering integrity have been taken in order to reduce weight, component cost and maintainence requirements - the result? Burnt out gearboxes, terminally overheated engines, snapped timing chains and smashed valves and pistons and whining axles at maybe just five or six years into the car's life. A simple component failing because a few pennies have been saved in manufacture doing so much expensive damage that a perfectly good car with the potential of several years life in it is easily an economic right off.
Jaguar of course aren't the only prestige car manufacturers who have lost the quality plot, you'll hear equally scary stories from other marques too - my BiL had run Mercedes for decades and had no end of grief with some of them. My point really was this. If Honda, Nissan et al can manage robust real world quality and long term reliability at a modest price then why don't you get at least the same when you pay so much more?
After only recently becoming a Jaguar owner and doing a bunch of researching prior to purchase, I still am certainly not an expert but do have a couple of impressions. As an engineer, I can say that a well-designed system of any type should have some sacrificial "fuses" that fail so that the main mechanism is protected, and that those fuses should be relatively inexpensive and easy to replace. A corollary is that parts that are subjected to harsh environments and/or heavy usage should be well-made of the best materials. I have noticed that the auto industry in general does not seem adhere to that philosophy. For example I once owned a top-of-the-line Audi back in 1983 (5000 Turbo). The pump for the windshield washer fluid, which is subjected to high temperatures, somewhat corrosive environment, and vibration was connected to the washer tank via a plastic threaded neck. Naturally this breaks quickly and, of course, you need to replace the entire pump needs to be replaced due to a cheap plastic part. Ditto for the power window switches that were made out of a cheap plastic that easily broke.
Similar shoddy engineering also existing in my XKR. Who in their right mind would have thought of using plastic for the timing chain tensioners? Also, couldn't someone have come up with a reliable and/or easy to replace design for the hydraulic hoses for the convertible? Replacing these relatively cheap hoses takes a day in labor due to needing to remove virtually the entire interior.
Finally, what is with this trend towards eliminating dipsticks (I shied away from buying a new BMW for this reason). This, as well as the sealed-for-life philosophy, gives me pause.
Doug
Similar shoddy engineering also existing in my XKR. Who in their right mind would have thought of using plastic for the timing chain tensioners? Also, couldn't someone have come up with a reliable and/or easy to replace design for the hydraulic hoses for the convertible? Replacing these relatively cheap hoses takes a day in labor due to needing to remove virtually the entire interior.
Finally, what is with this trend towards eliminating dipsticks (I shied away from buying a new BMW for this reason). This, as well as the sealed-for-life philosophy, gives me pause.
Doug
Edited by SeismicGuy on Friday 31st July 22:22
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