The car I want just doesnt exist....
Discussion
Hi all, I dont usually post here, but since I have a BMW related query, thought this would be the best place:
to quote Ferry Porsche “It all began when I was looking around but couldn't find the car of my dreams anywhere. So I decided to build it myself,”
and I feel I might have a similar problem.
I work as a cameraman, and lug about enormous boxes of gear all the time. Sadly, I need an estate. After much searching and test driving, I test drove a BMW 330i touring- and it was perfect. Enough power for me, Felt good to drive, too big, not too small- it was a goldilocks car. just right.
I held off buying as I was off on a euro trip, which included a visit to the nurburgring. I knew it would be fun, but i have to admit, both me and the missus have ring fever now- we plan to go back, regularly.
So, I need a ring toy (no jokes please
) but i also need a practical car for work. I refuse to go back to running two cars. I've tried it in the past, and always hated it. It never saves as much money as you think, and you have two cars to maintain, two cars to tax, two cars to insure, and you spend 80% of your time in the practical car wishing you were in the fun car.
So im after a practical car, thats also ring worthy. - needs to be rwd, 5 seats not too heavy, big estate boot, and be fun to drive. - the car I want just doesnt exist! So my thoughts have run to building up the car i need myself:
I liked the 330i touring, perfect in boot size, and i really felt at home in the cabin. But it wouldnt be up to regular ring use- what I need is an M3 touring!
Would it be possible, to buy a decent 330i touring, source an M3 that had been in a shunt, and transplant engine, suspension brakes, and all the other M3 goodness across to the touring shell? (forgot to add, im talking about the E46 shape- an E46 M3, and a high mileage E46 3 series touring would be just about in budget)
This isnt a pipe dream either- I've been involved in various car projects over the years- this would be a challenge, but not out of my depth.
What im wondering, is -
a) is this possible, or am i being a fool? is there a better rwd estate for my purposes?
b) whats the right donor car to start with? would a 330i have engine mounts in the right place? i dont have a clue about beemer engine series at the moment.
c) Are M3 parts transplantable to a touring shell, or do the M devision make other changes to the chassis to give the m3 its 'M'ness?
I know it seems like a lot of hard work, and the resulting m3 touring would have lame residual value- but i want a good solid fast fun estate to last me a good number of years. Id really want to put the effort in a built something a bit different
Any opinions would be most welcome (by all means tell me if im bonkers if this is a silly idea!)
to quote Ferry Porsche “It all began when I was looking around but couldn't find the car of my dreams anywhere. So I decided to build it myself,”
and I feel I might have a similar problem.
I work as a cameraman, and lug about enormous boxes of gear all the time. Sadly, I need an estate. After much searching and test driving, I test drove a BMW 330i touring- and it was perfect. Enough power for me, Felt good to drive, too big, not too small- it was a goldilocks car. just right.
I held off buying as I was off on a euro trip, which included a visit to the nurburgring. I knew it would be fun, but i have to admit, both me and the missus have ring fever now- we plan to go back, regularly.
So, I need a ring toy (no jokes please
) but i also need a practical car for work. I refuse to go back to running two cars. I've tried it in the past, and always hated it. It never saves as much money as you think, and you have two cars to maintain, two cars to tax, two cars to insure, and you spend 80% of your time in the practical car wishing you were in the fun car.So im after a practical car, thats also ring worthy. - needs to be rwd, 5 seats not too heavy, big estate boot, and be fun to drive. - the car I want just doesnt exist! So my thoughts have run to building up the car i need myself:
I liked the 330i touring, perfect in boot size, and i really felt at home in the cabin. But it wouldnt be up to regular ring use- what I need is an M3 touring!
Would it be possible, to buy a decent 330i touring, source an M3 that had been in a shunt, and transplant engine, suspension brakes, and all the other M3 goodness across to the touring shell? (forgot to add, im talking about the E46 shape- an E46 M3, and a high mileage E46 3 series touring would be just about in budget)
This isnt a pipe dream either- I've been involved in various car projects over the years- this would be a challenge, but not out of my depth.
What im wondering, is -
a) is this possible, or am i being a fool? is there a better rwd estate for my purposes?
b) whats the right donor car to start with? would a 330i have engine mounts in the right place? i dont have a clue about beemer engine series at the moment.
c) Are M3 parts transplantable to a touring shell, or do the M devision make other changes to the chassis to give the m3 its 'M'ness?
I know it seems like a lot of hard work, and the resulting m3 touring would have lame residual value- but i want a good solid fast fun estate to last me a good number of years. Id really want to put the effort in a built something a bit different
Any opinions would be most welcome (by all means tell me if im bonkers if this is a silly idea!)
Edited by Fordo on Monday 20th July 19:31
It's certainly possible but requires LOTS of time and effort as lots of the electronics matches the engine and all needs recoding by BMW.
Have a read of http://e46.mit.edu/ to read the story of someone else that did it
Have a read of http://e46.mit.edu/ to read the story of someone else that did it
What about an E34 M5 Touring? A late one with 6 speed gearbox and the big brakes would be fine for Ring use too. Not that much bigger than an E46, has more power and torque than an E46 M3 and you could get a superb one for much less than the 330i/M3 transplant, and it would still be an "M" rather than a very involved and potentially costly project.
Running costs of an E34 M5 reputed to be somewhat dear but it is a classic that will not drop in value.
Running costs of an E34 M5 reputed to be somewhat dear but it is a classic that will not drop in value.
Yep, I agree about the C55, last months Evo highlighted an ad for a lovely example, 30 grand and very low mileage and in great condition. Dealer was Marlow cars. I was very tempted myself as it looked very nice. I think it's still available too.
Edited by 3ftandclean on Monday 20th July 19:46
rassi said:
What about an E34 M5 Touring? A late one with 6 speed gearbox and the big brakes would be fine for Ring use too. Not that much bigger than an E46, has more power and torque than an E46 M3 and you could get a superb one for much less than the 330i/M3 transplant, and it would still be an "M" rather than a very involved and potentially costly project.
Running costs of an E34 M5 reputed to be somewhat dear but it is a classic that will not drop in value.
it didnt occur to me that they might have made an E34 M5 Touring! will have to do a bit of research into that. A chap i bought a car from a while ago used to own a E34 M5- he did have tales of woe about the running costsRunning costs of an E34 M5 reputed to be somewhat dear but it is a classic that will not drop in value.
I still like the idea of a conversion- i can make sure every bolt is torqued correctly, replace and/ or upgrade things as I go, and so hopefully end up with a very tight car indeed. The electrical side of things does concern me though- queue grumbly old man mode- cars these days seem to be full of electrics, grumble grumble, wasnt like this in my day etc etc
thanks for the link too, will have a read
john_p said:
It's certainly possible but requires LOTS of time and effort as lots of the electronics matches the engine and all needs recoding by BMW.
Have a read of http://e46.mit.edu/ to read the story of someone else that did it
that was a great read! not a fan of the body kit and other pimping, but youve got to respect the man- awesome project.Have a read of http://e46.mit.edu/ to read the story of someone else that did it
I'm starting to think the electrics would be my major problem. I could only really afford a month and a bit for a project like this, and the thought of delving deep into electrics diagrams fills me with dread. I could just picture getting everything mechanical in place in 2 weeks, then spending months and months trying to figure out the wiring looms and control modules
Oh why didnt bmw make an m3 touring!
thanks for the input everyone- i didnt think id get responses so fast
Will investigate the merc as mentioned, but ive just never felt at home in a merc
Edited by Fordo on Monday 20th July 20:04
Overhaulin said:
It did at one point hold the title of the fastest Estate in the world.... That's something to brag about!Although I personally would go for an E34 M5.... Amazing car, amazing engine, great styling and IMO, as sophisticated as a Merc.
Like many (and yourself) it still baffles me why BMW has never built an M3 touring.
Merc has an AMG version of their C class, Audi has an RS version of their A4. I mean, there clearly is a market for it (and it's probably much bigger than the X6's).
= )
My mate races an 'M3' E30 that is a reshell, bought as two half cuts in Japan imported and shelled using a 325 Sheel (OK I know the M3 was different), all the running gear went in except the the ABS which is not allowed in the class rules, even went for LHD so it looks good.
So I'd say yes can be done, 'half cuts' are common in Japan do an internt search.
So I'd say yes can be done, 'half cuts' are common in Japan do an internt search.
I think you will end up with a jack of all trades. How many times a year do you think you'll visit the ring? You may be better off with the 330i and hiring a properly prepped ring car. To go quickly and safely on the ring you need the right suspension and rubber. RSR Nurburg will hire you an alfa 75 for 500 euro / day. I did 50 laps in one in one day on my last visit.
When you've worked the numbers out I bet it's a lot cheaper and you will probablyhave more funin it.
I almost went down this route with my 928 (and have friends that did go down it). I'm really glad I didn't now. I kept my 928 to road spec (mega modded but no cage or harnesses) and use that for a couple of nice smooth laps each trip. For serious lapping you need a car that is horrible on the road. Just my 2p.
Joel
When you've worked the numbers out I bet it's a lot cheaper and you will probablyhave more funin it.
I almost went down this route with my 928 (and have friends that did go down it). I'm really glad I didn't now. I kept my 928 to road spec (mega modded but no cage or harnesses) and use that for a couple of nice smooth laps each trip. For serious lapping you need a car that is horrible on the road. Just my 2p.
Joel
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