clearing up confusion - Anti Roll bars
Discussion
wikipedia and GTO3.com states the m12 in either gto/gto3 or gto3r guise has/had no anti roll bars
wikipedia as well as autoreview-online.com and GTO3.com states the M400 version of the m12 was the first car to have an anti roll bar - front only
is this correct?
and what about the M14 + m15?
wikipedia as well as autoreview-online.com and GTO3.com states the M400 version of the m12 was the first car to have an anti roll bar - front only
is this correct?
and what about the M14 + m15?
AMG Merc said:
Apart from the M400 line there is one GTO-3R running around with ARB as standard - its currently in the classified here and is bright Turquouse. It was built during the start of M400 production so Noble threw it in for the lucky owner. 
.
As compensation for the colour! :-p.ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
I think and Lee Noble actually stated once that fitting an ARB for road use made the car worse. He said that he only put one of the M400 because marketing said he should and it didn't cost much.
he did indeed. I miss him around here and his basic approach to motor car ride and handling design!having a stiffer setup on the front does generally make the vehicle more understeery, although it amazes me the m12 does without arb's and doesn't suffer weight transfer from body roll
stiff arb's can give a harsh ride, especially across an axle but i would have thought that to counter body roll without them would require such stiff suspension you'd get an equally harsh/hard ride
stiff arb's can give a harsh ride, especially across an axle but i would have thought that to counter body roll without them would require such stiff suspension you'd get an equally harsh/hard ride
ThatPhilBrettGuy said:
I think and Lee Noble actually stated once that fitting an ARB for road use made the car worse. He said that he only put one of the M400 because marketing said he should and it didn't cost much.
Better braking on less than perfect surfaces without an ARB....
i wonder if designing in understeer was also part of the reason though? - even more power through the same shell has got to make it harder and harder to drive to the limit, hence adding some, albeit small forgiveness to driver error?1Better braking on less than perfect surfaces without an ARB....
dylan0451 said:
having a stiffer setup on the front does generally make the vehicle more understeery, although it amazes me the m12 does without arb's and doesn't suffer weight transfer from body roll
stiff arb's can give a harsh ride, especially across an axle but i would have thought that to counter body roll without them would require such stiff suspension you'd get an equally harsh/hard ride
But you are talking about a car who suspension was design first and the rest of the car pretty much following and thus not compramised like most cars which then need an ARB/ stiff suspension to compensate.stiff arb's can give a harsh ride, especially across an axle but i would have thought that to counter body roll without them would require such stiff suspension you'd get an equally harsh/hard ride
Body roll and weight transfer of a road car can be controlled in more efficient ways than arb meaning suspension can remain relativelly soft with quite large bump and rebound levels and wheels remain totaly independant. Things like roll centres, track, wheelbase, unsprung weight etc etc
Adrian W said:
Gadgeroonie said:
the m400 without the arb is supposed to have less understeer
has anyone tried this to confirm ?
I wonder how many people on here can make an M400 understeer on the road,has anyone tried this to confirm ?
I had the LSD + 6spd box fitted to my M12, and I was so disappointed afterwards. I put slightly larger wheels on the front and it solved it (for me, at least).
As I recall Jenx took his ARB off......
--Jools
I haven't driven an m12 much but it does feel like the front has more grip than the back. I'd imagine on the track it wouldn't give me as much confidence to push it as an m400 would. The m400 lets you feel the grip limits with the front end slightly before the rear slides. I'm sure I could get used to either.
Saying that I don't know if it is due to the ARB or just different suspension settings.
Saying that I don't know if it is due to the ARB or just different suspension settings.
my GTO3 has m400 suspension fitted at the factory by the previous owner
i have 6 speed box / atb and no arb
the car does not understeer on the edge - as Adrian said I can't say i have had too many opportunities to get on full tilt on a bend at high speed
what was interesting was why they removed the front splitter from the m400, you would think it had no downforce effect but the guys at Reverie have told me that is not necessarily the case. I suspect it was due to the fact that they had none left in stock LOL
is this Lee's Race car ?
he has a splitter fitted here
i have 6 speed box / atb and no arb
the car does not understeer on the edge - as Adrian said I can't say i have had too many opportunities to get on full tilt on a bend at high speed
what was interesting was why they removed the front splitter from the m400, you would think it had no downforce effect but the guys at Reverie have told me that is not necessarily the case. I suspect it was due to the fact that they had none left in stock LOL
is this Lee's Race car ?
he has a splitter fitted here
Edited by Gadgeroonie on Thursday 23 July 22:35
Gadgeroonie said:
the m400 without the arb is supposed to have less understeer
has anyone tried this to confirm ?
I found the understeer effect was improved by letting some air out of the front tyres, in fact once I had the uprights machined for camber and a slightly more aggressive geo done the handling was very neutral with lots of feel.has anyone tried this to confirm ?
One point some one made here was making the car too stiff and uncomfortable on road.
Having now run around in a Lotus Exige for 10 months I can confirm that Lee Noble IS indeed a suspension genius, the Exige though a fantastic handler is no match for the comfort level offered by the M400's amazingly compliant ride.
F.C.
Gadgeroonie said:
my GTO3 has m400 suspension fitted at the factory by the previous owner
is this Lee's Race car ?
he has a splitter fitted here
It was one of the factory early race cars, I took the picture at Donnington. From memory I don't think Lee drove it that day, think it was somebody called Dave from the factory. is this Lee's Race car ?
he has a splitter fitted here
Rob.
mr2turbo300 said:
Gadgeroonie said:
my GTO3 has m400 suspension fitted at the factory by the previous owner
is this Lee's Race car ?
he has a splitter fitted here
It was one of the factory early race cars, I took the picture at Donnington. From memory I don't think Lee drove it that day, think it was somebody called Dave from the factory. is this Lee's Race car ?
he has a splitter fitted here
Rob.
Gassing Station | Noble | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff