At Last!! Diagnostics captured - Feedback please? :D

[sk7ine man]

At last, after weeks of rough running i have finally managed to get my laptop to talk to the ecu

Adaptives look massively out accross both banks but thats all i know, the original diagnostics were that when throttle pot 1 was removed then the car runs fine but rough with it in:

Adaptive 1 = 34% (24% with throttle pot 1 disconnected - for smoother running)
Adaptive 2 - 7.9%

Throttle 1 = 23%
Throttle 2 = 23%

So my guess is the adpative values are causing the rough idle/running, how do i change those etc?

[URL=http://img41.imageshack.us/i/55660731.jpg/][/URL]

Edited by sk7ine man on Thursday 23 July 13:22

[ridds]

Have a search for adaptives in the forum. Covered many times. Basically an imbalance between the actual airflow and the required fuel for that airflow compared to the delivered fuel for a given throttle angle.

Also you could have a dodgy throttle pot. Open the throttles slowly and look for any fluctuation in the readings.

There's also the link rods and play in them so check those for ANY movement.

[sk7ine man]

Thanks for the feedback. I tired using joo's guide and with a lil feedback from him i spent a couple of hours today having a good crack at this.

So far i have, changed the throttle pots for new ones, reset the butterflies and link rod. I momentarily had the car running nicely but its such a fine line that it quickly went out.

So far i still seem to be hugely out on adaptive 1 (odd bank as before) even though i have reset everyything and there is no slack in the linkage. Joo also pointed out that i have a duff air temp sensor as mine is reading a constant 50.9c from cold!

I cant get the throttle pots to 19% at idle or at 950rpm. Its seems happier at 23% either side @ 1000 rpm (uprated cams?)

Adaptive 1 is fluctuating between 25-35% and Adaptive 2 ~ 12%.

If i adjust the odd bank to get the adaptive down, then i need to compensate by resetting Tpot 1 to the same % as Tpot 2?

[ridds]

No faults on the Lambdas at all?

It would be interesting to see a trace of the throttle values as you slowly open the throttles up.

I would have thought you've either got a dodgy throttle reading or a big change in air flow between banks which could be down to a miss-timed cam, I would have thought that unlikely though.

Does it just stall when you try and run the lower values?

[sk7ine man]

ridds said:

No faults on the Lambdas at all?

It would be interesting to see a trace of the throttle values as you slowly open the throttles up.

I would have thought you've either got a dodgy throttle reading or a big change in air flow between banks which could be down to a miss-timed cam, I would have thought that unlikely though.

Does it just stall when you try and run the lower values?

Yes it does, its not happy below 20%, although Peter Melichar, the previous owner said it had uprated cams so may explain the unhappy idle at low throttle/rpm.

I have to change the air temp sensor as that is just reading a constant 50c but i cant work out whether to trim down the butterflies on the odd bank down to turn down the air flow and re adjust the Tpot back up or as most suggest just turn the Tpot up to bring that particular adaptive value down.


I have changed the throttle pots earlier today as previously she was running fine with Tpot 1 disconnected indication a possible fault so i changed it as a matter of course. Idle previously was 1050rpm at Tpots 23%. Its pretty much similar with the new throttle pots suggesting poor set up as it has run a few days ago as it should?!

[ridds]

As long as the butterflies look even then I would just go with adjusting the pot. You should use a Synchrometer really to check airflow.

Can you post the adaptive tables, should be 4-5 tables for each bank (different load sites).

[sk7ine man]

ridds said:

As long as the butterflies look even then I would just go with adjusting the pot. You should use a Synchrometer really to check airflow.

Can you post the adaptive tables, should be 4-5 tables for each bank (different load sites).

I assume when you say the butterflies look even that the adaptives should be corrected by adjusting the link arm and resetting the Tpot?

How do i post the adaptive tables, is it on the same capture as above? Will have another crack at this tomm/weekend and will keep you posted.

Many thanks Ridds

[jammy_basturd]

If you've changed a few things, clear the adaptives and go for a short drive. As ridds says, both lambda readings are 0.0?

[sk7ine man]

jammy_basturd said:

If you've changed a few things, clear the adaptives and go for a short drive. As ridds says, both lambda readings are 0.0?

yes both 0.0 but fluctuate as the car is revved, will try that thanks

[Peppe]

sk7ine man said:

I assume when you say the butterflies look even that the adaptives should be corrected by adjusting the link arm and resetting the Tpot?

As someone said earlier, you should start by balancing both sides of the engine with a syncrometer (done by adjusting the linkage between the sides), then you should adjust the throttlepots to the correct value, by moving them, and not touch the linkage between the sides.

The resetting of the tpot´s is made for the SP6, on which you can´t mechanically adjust the tpots.

The Cerbera workshop manual that you can find on Dave Hinns homepage describes how to do the adjustments you want to do on a AJP8.

[hoppo4.2]

if one bank is way out you might have a cracked exhaust manifold.

it lets air in to the lamba reads wrong (you wont tell this your self lookin at the screen).
so it ups the fueling to correct for the weak mixture.

you can compensate by making adjustments but its not goin to fix the problem properley.

[tur8o]

hi, i finally plucked up the courage to to try and set mine up last weekend after two new lambda sensors were fitted and it was running rough. found it much after i discovered one end of the rod is a left hand thread doh! i was unable to get mine to idle until the throttle pots were set at about 20-21%. have got what you call hunting? now at idle, a little hesitation still on accelerating and a very rough spot when trying to cruise on light throttle especially around 3000rpm. although its a million times beter than before. i did noticed the other day though that although the pots and adaptives are fairly even at idle at around 30% one pot is about 35%. i'm pretty sure my exhaust manifolds are leaking (been off a lot recently) or cracked. do they really make a difference?

p.s. was anyone really nervous the first time the adjusted everything that they may have got wrong and kill the engine or is that just me? lol.

[pat_y]

Just one thing i noticed on your trace, the water temp is very low, did you take this graph from a cold car?

[jammy_basturd]

tur8o said:

have got what you call hunting? now at idle, a little hesitation still on accelerating and a very rough spot when trying to cruise on light throttle especially around 3000rpm.

I believe you'll always get that to some extent, without a remap anyway.

[Steve_T]

Peppe said:

sk7ine man said:

I assume when you say the butterflies look even that the adaptives should be corrected by adjusting the link arm and resetting the Tpot?

As someone said earlier, you should start by balancing both sides of the engine with a syncrometer (done by adjusting the linkage between the sides), then you should adjust the throttlepots to the correct value, by moving them, and not touch the linkage between the sides.

I agree, get the mechanical setup right first, then do the pots. The ECU will try to compensate as best it can, but if the airflow is out it may not be able to adapt enough.

[sk7ine man]

I did it initialy to try and get a rough idea of what the cas was doing. When making any adjustments i ensure car is at operating temp. However im finding it hard to get the car running long enough to get upto temp to make accurate adjustments. Ive ordered a new air temp sensor so once thats on il start again. Been speaking to Joo whos looked at the shots and says lambdas are fine, tpot 1 was erratic causing ignition spiking,so thats been replaced. The only thing i can think of is dirt soot build up inside the odd bank meaning the butterflies arent fully closing hence variance in adaptives. Synchrometer,here we come...

[sk7ine man]

I did it initialy to try and get a rough idea of what the cas was doing. When making any adjustments i ensure car is at operating temp. However im finding it hard to get the car running long enough to get upto temp to make accurate adjustments. Ive ordered a new air temp sensor so once thats on il start again. Been speaking to Joo whos looked at the shots and says lambdas are fine, tpot 1 was erratic causing ignition spiking,so thats been replaced. The only thing i can think of is dirt soot build up inside the odd bank meaning the butterflies arent fully closing hence variance in adaptives. Synchrometer,here we come...

[ridds]

Another thing to be aware of is the expansion of the engine and the link rods etc.

I know that my readings vary from first fired up and cold to fully warm.

[sk7ine man]

Steve_T said:

Peppe said:

sk7ine man said:

I assume when you say the butterflies look even that the adaptives should be corrected by adjusting the link arm and resetting the Tpot?

As someone said earlier, you should start by balancing both sides of the engine with a syncrometer (done by adjusting the linkage between the sides), then you should adjust the throttlepots to the correct value, by moving them, and not touch the linkage between the sides.

I agree, get the mechanical setup right first, then do the pots. The ECU will try to compensate as best it can, but if the airflow is out it may not be able to adapt enough.

Sent you an email bud

[sk7ine man]

ridds said:

Another thing to be aware of is the expansion of the engine and the link rods etc.

I know that my readings vary from first fired up and cold to fully warm.

Yes i noticed that as the car got warmer, the Tpot % started fluctuating. DO you normally just set them from cold or when the engines warm?