Lancia Montecarlo

[gremshek]

Anyone on here got one? I think that with teh brakes upgraded they're a fun bit of kit. I saw one a few years ago with an Alfa V6 in the back - that looked fun! Don't suppose it's anyone on here is it?

[Furyblade_Lee]

I guy I know has one of the best in the country. It is pretty much as it left the factory in the 70's and lives in a centrally heated and carpeted garage. But if you want to know about tuning them look up the 037 Rally replica kit, the guy knows all about tuning them

[flat16]

You could try a search on my posts - I've written about the Monte before (I've owned one since '92). Rather than go on all year, here's a brief summary from my perspective:

S1 cars - it's very rare to find a good one. There are some nice examples, but most have succumbed to tin worm, and front end damage due to the front brake servo being prone to lock-up in the wet. Rust-proofing on S1 is non-existent.

S2 - better galvanisation. Higher compression engine. No front servo.

Either model in standard trim is under-powered (S2 claims 8.6sec 0-60 - a tad optimistic methinks). Brakes on either car are nothing to write home about - brake fade can be radical on a hot summer's day after fast A-road driving.

Parts situation is probably better now than 10 yrs ago thanks to Monte Hospital. Some parts are unobtainium though. Certain parts such as glass and door mirrors (s2) are shared with 037 - read expensive. General parts situation is far better than the Beta, which was produced in greater numbers.

The good news: with a touch of tuning a well-sorted Monte is a lot of fun to drive and will corner as if on rails. You will hear people aggressively criticise these cars, yet they've never driven one. I've yet to meet anyone who knows the S2 say it isn't fun with a touch of tuning. Unless it's really special / highly modified / highly restored, I wouldn't recommend an S1 car.

Twin carbs, a gas-flowed head, high-lift cams + high compression pistons will easily give 160-170bhp. A standard car is 970kg - not a bad power-to-weight ratio. The cars feel a lot faster than they are (in keeping with many older cars I guess). CSC exhaust sounds wonderful. Fibreglass panels will lose around 50kg, and negate rust concerns.

If you do pursue getting one of these cars, make sure to take advice from someone without an agenda (i.e. not selling anything) who knows the car well. Try the 'Lancisti forum’.

BTW – engine conversions are relatively common. There are a few with Ferrari V8s (taken from Thema 8.32 – a shame to wreck the 8.32 IMHO, a nice car), Thema Turbo engines (quicker than the 8.32 conversion, albeit not as musical), Alfa / Lancia V6 lumps (not to my taste, but each to his / her own). What you really want to do is find a good engine builder who can reverse the flow on an Integrale-type engine – that’s the holy grail IMHO.

Tarox make various brake upgrades, ranging from grooved discs to vented 6 and even 10-pot upgrade kits (£3,500 for the latter). There are also third party shocks out there for more race-like handling.

Edited by flat16 on Friday 24th July 21:14

[scotal]

flat16 said:

What you really want to do is find a good engine builder who can reverse the flow on an Integrale-type engine – that’s the holy grail IMHO. [/footnote]

Forgive my pig ignorance, but what do you mean by reverse the flow?

[flat16]

In the early eighties, Fiat reversed the flow of the head on their Lampredi TC engines, i.e the inlet became outlet and vice-versa. Had they not done this, you'd be able to drop a whole world of 16v / Turbo etc. performance engines into a Monte without too much hassle. As it is, you can fit an Integrale-type engine, but you'd need to make a complex exhaust (I'm not even sure if the exhaust would be theoretically good, although I'm told people have done it), and there would be serious ramifications for transmission and gear linkage. The least stressful option is probably to go for the Alfa (also used in Kappas) V6. Personally, I'd prefer an Integrale-type lump (i.e. 16v / Turbo).

Various engine builders say you can reverse the head flow, but I haven't seen an example personally.

edit - oh yeah, before anyone remarks, it is bizarre that Lancia fitted a supercharged engine to the FWD Volumex, yet their flagship mid-engine sports car got a single carb with an optimistic quote of 120bhp

Edited by flat16 on Saturday 25th July 20:38

[LittleSwill]

Why don't you like the V6 conversion?

[flat16]

I like the rawness of the 4-pot Lampredi engine. The Alfa / Lancia V6 engine is almost too refined for a Monte IMHO.

Similarly, whilst it's an awesome engine in its own right, personally, I don't dig the 8.32 Ferrari conversion (aside from butchering an 8.32 Thema which is a cool car). A Ferrari is in a different league. It's on an altogether different scale; much more complex. A Monte, on the other hand, is like a go-cart. It's a very simple car indeed.

If you have a V6 / V8 conversion and enjoy it, good for you - it suits your taste. For me, a Lampredi 16v Turbo is what appeals.

It'd be a boring world if we all liked the same things!

Edited by flat16 on Tuesday 28th July 20:12

[taznuv]

Interesting write up flat16. Always fancied one, particularly after seeing a couple of crackers at Bristol Auto festival this year. What are your views on their suitabality for someone who's 6'5" and tends to suffer with leg room rather than headroom?

[wulmar]

I had one over twenty years ago really liked it, (when it started) rust is what got it in the end.
Funny thing was nobody new what it was,it did attract a lot of attention when pulling into the forecourt back then.

[flat16]

Taz - I reckon you might 'just' be ok. My advice is to sit in one and see. The cabin isn't too cramped, but the seat adjustment is very basic, so it's best to try for yourself. I trust you'll fit a gold tortoise to the radiator grille?

It's good to read someone recall that their Monte was fun. True, the rust is a big issue and it's not the only concern, but much of the negative reputation is undeserved, particularly with an S2 car (or an uprated S1 car).

Hotter cams, higher-compression pistons, gas flowing + twin carbs should be good for a tractable 160bhp. Lots of fun, particularly when you see flummoxed people trying to figure out what it is.

[dinkel]

Great to find this topic. I'm looking at one and I like what I see.

[MitchT]

I've always liked these cars. If I ever have somewhere warm and dry enough to store one I might pull the trigger and do the Alfa V6 conversion to get the exhaust note that goes with the looks.

[dinkel]

Does a Busso fit?

V6 might compromize handling (weight) and the Lampredi 2 litre already sounds the bits with a bit of more pep.

[MitchT]

I guess an extensive and integrated approach would be needed. V6 in the back, weight distribution optimised by moving anything that can be, suspension sorted, etc.

[dinkel]

FIAT coupe / Lancia 2.0 20v Turbo gives 220 brake. That would be hot in such a swb car.

[Mellow Yellow]

flat16 said:

edit - oh yeah, before anyone remarks, it is bizarre that Lancia fitted a supercharged engine to the FWD Volumex, yet their flagship mid-engine sports car got a single carb with an optimistic quote of 120bhp

Is it not possible to Supercharge the Montecarlo using parts from the Volumex?

[Evoluzione]

The idea behind the car was to be delicate and light hence the simple average power engine, most of the suggestions are the opposite so you'll ruin the feel of the car.
It's a difficult one as it's good to keep it old and Italian, but old and Italian is heavy. What about new light and Italian? A small turbocharged one similar to what Ford are putting in the Fester 1.25 turbos.

Or just mod the 2ltr TC, 150 - 160bhp is easily achievable....

[dinkel]

Turbo would spoil the engine soundbyte. A 160 is nuff fun in a lightweight like this.

[MitchT]

To me cars like this need to have three qualities:

1: Look good.
2: Sound good.
3: Feel good.

Therefore, it must have the V6 to give it the exhaust note required to compliment its looks adequately. Work can be done with the suspension and weight distribution to ensure that the feel is maintained.