Another which used E60 would you buy. £15k+ish to spend.
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm in the market for a good mile munching barge, currently have 130 TDI PD Golf Mk 4, it's downsides is finding the seats uncomfortable (thats more me and my bad back), I do a lot of motorway miles say an 80/20 split on up to about 1000-1500 a month.
I've been toying with an A6 or 5 series, mostly because at 6' 3", a few that I've sat in have plenty of leg room, plenty of headroom, have cruise, climate, sat nav (though I'm not that bothered), preferably leather (although I was never bothered about it in the past, this segment car seems so much better for it) plenty of adjustment in the seats, also they're long enough in the front door area that I won't be looking around the B pillar pulling on to roundabouts, it's bad enough in the Golf losing oncoming traffic behind the rear view mirror, sitting so tall. I also think I'm at an age where this kind of car would suit me, looks like I'm skipping my sports convertible/coupe stage onset of middle age crisis.
I've also been struggling with the Golf's boot which I fill very easily with gear, so have to carry overnight bags and stuff on the back seat, which to me, would be a sign to any car thief to wonder what goodies might be in the boot. Have had look at A4 Avant's and thought the boot for an estate tiny, the boot in an A6 saloon looks cavenous, and 5 cavenous enough. Not keen on a touring or avant's, as would be concerned that it's been hammered as a tow car.
After a succession of VAG motors, I've been warming to BMWs of late. And this 5 series has grown on me, and is it me, with a new 5 series due, there are an awful lot about for what appears reasonable money, or is that a worry?
Now I know 535d is a beast (with or without remap), but I don't think I need quite as much poke. Oh I think once you've gone diesel you tend to remain (tight) diesel running costs.
So I'm wondering what engine has enough heft not to embarrass itself, and finding it wheezing rather than tanking along. Reasonable mpg, I'm getting 50-ish in the Golf, obviously prepared to take some hit, but don't want to return to Passat 1.8T petrol levels low to mid 30s on a motorway charge. How much torque is enough. A 520? 525? 530? And I understand there has been updates to the 5, are there years to avoid.
And SE or M Sport? I've read M Sport's on run flat that can be noisy and jarring on UK roads, and you get more for your money on an SE, and a more comfortable ride, although I come from a long line hot hatches, and put sport springs on the last 2 purchases, to stop them wallowing about..
I appreciate I'd be better off testing driving a few motors, and I of course will, but I don't want to be wasting anyone's time as a test pilot, or tyre kicker, when I can narrow down the field a little.
So I'm wondering what spec, age, options on 5 series on say up to £15-16K.
I have spun through a few pages on here, but couldn't find much on buying an E60.
I'm in the market for a good mile munching barge, currently have 130 TDI PD Golf Mk 4, it's downsides is finding the seats uncomfortable (thats more me and my bad back), I do a lot of motorway miles say an 80/20 split on up to about 1000-1500 a month.
I've been toying with an A6 or 5 series, mostly because at 6' 3", a few that I've sat in have plenty of leg room, plenty of headroom, have cruise, climate, sat nav (though I'm not that bothered), preferably leather (although I was never bothered about it in the past, this segment car seems so much better for it) plenty of adjustment in the seats, also they're long enough in the front door area that I won't be looking around the B pillar pulling on to roundabouts, it's bad enough in the Golf losing oncoming traffic behind the rear view mirror, sitting so tall. I also think I'm at an age where this kind of car would suit me, looks like I'm skipping my sports convertible/coupe stage onset of middle age crisis.
I've also been struggling with the Golf's boot which I fill very easily with gear, so have to carry overnight bags and stuff on the back seat, which to me, would be a sign to any car thief to wonder what goodies might be in the boot. Have had look at A4 Avant's and thought the boot for an estate tiny, the boot in an A6 saloon looks cavenous, and 5 cavenous enough. Not keen on a touring or avant's, as would be concerned that it's been hammered as a tow car.
After a succession of VAG motors, I've been warming to BMWs of late. And this 5 series has grown on me, and is it me, with a new 5 series due, there are an awful lot about for what appears reasonable money, or is that a worry?
Now I know 535d is a beast (with or without remap), but I don't think I need quite as much poke. Oh I think once you've gone diesel you tend to remain (tight) diesel running costs.
So I'm wondering what engine has enough heft not to embarrass itself, and finding it wheezing rather than tanking along. Reasonable mpg, I'm getting 50-ish in the Golf, obviously prepared to take some hit, but don't want to return to Passat 1.8T petrol levels low to mid 30s on a motorway charge. How much torque is enough. A 520? 525? 530? And I understand there has been updates to the 5, are there years to avoid.
And SE or M Sport? I've read M Sport's on run flat that can be noisy and jarring on UK roads, and you get more for your money on an SE, and a more comfortable ride, although I come from a long line hot hatches, and put sport springs on the last 2 purchases, to stop them wallowing about..
I appreciate I'd be better off testing driving a few motors, and I of course will, but I don't want to be wasting anyone's time as a test pilot, or tyre kicker, when I can narrow down the field a little.
So I'm wondering what spec, age, options on 5 series on say up to £15-16K.
I have spun through a few pages on here, but couldn't find much on buying an E60.
Well thanks for replying Dubbs, I'd just about given up on getting one, thinking that I had been blanked for talking about oil burners or having the temerity to drop in from VAGworld.
I like the idea of a 530d, just wondering if it'll be all that economical, and if 525 would have enough poke. Even caught myself wondering if 520d would be enough for motorway miles but it's big motor to haul.
550 yeh i read another thread that you'd get alot of motor for the money.
I like the idea of a 530d, just wondering if it'll be all that economical, and if 525 would have enough poke. Even caught myself wondering if 520d would be enough for motorway miles but it's big motor to haul.
550 yeh i read another thread that you'd get alot of motor for the money.
We have a 54-plate 525d SE, and the ride quality on the runflats is fairly crude. I've also driven a 58-plate 525d M-sport, and that was, perversely, rather better (and surprisingly fun to drive actually). I did read somewhere that the later cars did benefit from ongoing suspension/tyre improvements, which would explain the ride improvement.
If you have a bad back, I personally don't find the basic part-electric seats are really that good, they seem to lack some support. You'd do better to find a car with the fully electric seats that have more adjustment/support.
If you have a bad back, I personally don't find the basic part-electric seats are really that good, they seem to lack some support. You'd do better to find a car with the fully electric seats that have more adjustment/support.
Edited by outnumbered on Thursday 30th July 21:24
I'd work out mileage versus real world saving - you may actually find that the most economical whilst still getting the power you want is a petrol!
Sounds silly but initial car cost plus servicing etc., real world difference may only be a couple of hundred quid. By the time you factor in paying a premium for a well specced diesel (petrol cars will still be specced better on average as less are co. cars) I reckon a 530i petrol may be spot on.
As soon as you get a diesel you'll want to enjoy that torque everywhere as it's the only fun part of having one.. problem with that is that every time you lead foot it to get the torwque the turbo spools up and you'll get worse than petrol economy (at times).
Maybe better to have a 530i, well specced with cruise control and enjoy economical motoring by wafting along with cruise on and listening to the better specced hi-fi.
I'm sure even a 550i will return respectable mpg when cruise control is on at 75mph... it'll have every toy imaginable to keep you satisified - if it has the Logic 7 my M6 had then it'll be AWESOME!
Sounds silly but initial car cost plus servicing etc., real world difference may only be a couple of hundred quid. By the time you factor in paying a premium for a well specced diesel (petrol cars will still be specced better on average as less are co. cars) I reckon a 530i petrol may be spot on.
As soon as you get a diesel you'll want to enjoy that torque everywhere as it's the only fun part of having one.. problem with that is that every time you lead foot it to get the torwque the turbo spools up and you'll get worse than petrol economy (at times).
Maybe better to have a 530i, well specced with cruise control and enjoy economical motoring by wafting along with cruise on and listening to the better specced hi-fi.
I'm sure even a 550i will return respectable mpg when cruise control is on at 75mph... it'll have every toy imaginable to keep you satisified - if it has the Logic 7 my M6 had then it'll be AWESOME!
Well tried 05' E60 520d SE this morning.
First 5 series I've driven, and the first auto for as long as I can remember.
My aren't there a lot of knobs, stalks and buttons. Car was fitted with electric leather memory seats. A good big boot that I'm in need of, my hatchback just swallows work equipment but leaves luggage on back seat. Engine, a tad rattly, not to say its noisy, but the soundproofing was disappointing compared to my Mk 4 Golf 130. Handling was good, ride v.good, (couldn't decide if it was on run flats), steering light, steering wheel strangely large and a little thin to hold, but after getting used to the auto box, in either full then semi auto, I thought 520, just a little under powered, and too eager to kick down. Seats felt good, and had plenty of adjustment, but was left wondering why with so much electric adjustment, why there was no lumber support electric or manual. As I told them, 30min test drives are fine, but I wouldn't know if my back will be in total agreement unless I've driven it for a couple hours. And although the seats appeared to be pretty good, I wasn't certain, it would be reassuring to have the fine tune of lumbar support, if I were to part with the thick end of £15-20K. After another salesman (it wasn't franchise) tried and failed to find the lumbar support, it was clear I was going to pass, as there was still that underlying lack of displacement.
Left the salesman, with my number, told him if a 525d or, particularly, a 530d, SE or Sport spec, comes in he should ring me, as I'm serious. And I also said I might consider petrol. I think if you're doing BMW, its got to be at least 6 cylinders, even as an oil burner, doesn't it? They had a 'lovely' thats the wrong word, 'impressive' '06 730d earlier in the week, £18k, gone now, bought by BMW apparently, which on reflection might have been worth a look, as the interior was like a (German's) gentlemens club.
As an interesting aside, I've come to the conclusion that while I've never felt the need for leather in any of my hot hatches or even my Passat, in a 5 series, or A6's for that matter, it really wouldn't do, not to have leather. Just looks wrong without it. On the way home stopped to pick up lunch, saw a 3.0tdi Sport VW Toureg, lovely colour, lots of toys, leather seats electric lumbar, I know a bit odd ball choice, but E60/X5, A6/toureg similar spec similar size, and I'm thinking getting in and out of road inclined 4x4 would be easier, at 6' 4" with a dodgy back. Toyed with the idea, even arranged to test drive next week, but have since seen indicative running costs, mpg, CO2. 5 series suddenly back to the top of the list. And there seems to be loads of 3 -5 year old E60's about, I suspect ex contract lease, and cars being chopped with a new 5 series due.
So anyway, can anyone tell me, do E60 have an optional lumber support, or are their seats too good to need it?
First 5 series I've driven, and the first auto for as long as I can remember.
My aren't there a lot of knobs, stalks and buttons. Car was fitted with electric leather memory seats. A good big boot that I'm in need of, my hatchback just swallows work equipment but leaves luggage on back seat. Engine, a tad rattly, not to say its noisy, but the soundproofing was disappointing compared to my Mk 4 Golf 130. Handling was good, ride v.good, (couldn't decide if it was on run flats), steering light, steering wheel strangely large and a little thin to hold, but after getting used to the auto box, in either full then semi auto, I thought 520, just a little under powered, and too eager to kick down. Seats felt good, and had plenty of adjustment, but was left wondering why with so much electric adjustment, why there was no lumber support electric or manual. As I told them, 30min test drives are fine, but I wouldn't know if my back will be in total agreement unless I've driven it for a couple hours. And although the seats appeared to be pretty good, I wasn't certain, it would be reassuring to have the fine tune of lumbar support, if I were to part with the thick end of £15-20K. After another salesman (it wasn't franchise) tried and failed to find the lumbar support, it was clear I was going to pass, as there was still that underlying lack of displacement.
Left the salesman, with my number, told him if a 525d or, particularly, a 530d, SE or Sport spec, comes in he should ring me, as I'm serious. And I also said I might consider petrol. I think if you're doing BMW, its got to be at least 6 cylinders, even as an oil burner, doesn't it? They had a 'lovely' thats the wrong word, 'impressive' '06 730d earlier in the week, £18k, gone now, bought by BMW apparently, which on reflection might have been worth a look, as the interior was like a (German's) gentlemens club.
As an interesting aside, I've come to the conclusion that while I've never felt the need for leather in any of my hot hatches or even my Passat, in a 5 series, or A6's for that matter, it really wouldn't do, not to have leather. Just looks wrong without it. On the way home stopped to pick up lunch, saw a 3.0tdi Sport VW Toureg, lovely colour, lots of toys, leather seats electric lumbar, I know a bit odd ball choice, but E60/X5, A6/toureg similar spec similar size, and I'm thinking getting in and out of road inclined 4x4 would be easier, at 6' 4" with a dodgy back. Toyed with the idea, even arranged to test drive next week, but have since seen indicative running costs, mpg, CO2. 5 series suddenly back to the top of the list. And there seems to be loads of 3 -5 year old E60's about, I suspect ex contract lease, and cars being chopped with a new 5 series due.
So anyway, can anyone tell me, do E60 have an optional lumber support, or are their seats too good to need it?
I went through all the options before I bought my car, I have similar requirements I'm 6ft 3, I like/ need a big boot, I tried a 520d, a 530d and a 535d all m sports. The 535d is as good as what everyone says, the car I tried was just not the right example for me to buy it, then I tried a 3.0 petrol m sport (525i) I liked the sound of the engine, the car was a perfect example, one owner, mint condition, full history etc.. I bought the car because I liked it that much! I am a serial car swapper and usually change my cars about every 12 to 18 months, but I'm just over 12 months into this one and I've not even thought about what car I would replace it with!
I get about 35 mpg out of it, the seats are extra comfortable and driving position is great with enough room for people to sit in back, it's the only car I have had that I don't have the seat fully slid back, I reckon a 7ft er could drive a 5 series.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is better than all the others in the range, I just liked it better.
I get about 35 mpg out of it, the seats are extra comfortable and driving position is great with enough room for people to sit in back, it's the only car I have had that I don't have the seat fully slid back, I reckon a 7ft er could drive a 5 series.
Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is better than all the others in the range, I just liked it better.
A few of the posters have touched on the most important point: how much are you going to save by buying diesel? 6 cylinders, a couple of turbos and a lot of weight are NEVER going to be particularly fuel efficient if you decide to enjoy driving. I am a massive proponent of diesels because I drive slowly on the motorway (most of my journeys are 30 mins so it makes no difference to the time) and get exceptional mpg (up to 70). However, if I join the fast lane my mileage drops to mid 40s and most of the saving is lost. I know road tax makes a difference, but don't get caught halfway between the two best options. If you really need a car as big as a 5 series then I'm sure the 520d will be sufficient, although I'd be surprised if you couldn't get comfy in a 3-series.
there is a doubtless a lot of merit in what you say, the beauty of my TDI 130, specc'd with factory option sports springs, made for rather firm, flattish handling for a VAG front wheel drive (I used to race karts fairly seriously, so good handling is important) is that it appeals to my Jekyl & Hyde nature, and so it is with my car. I can drive it miserly on the motorway circa 65-70 for 3 or 4 hours, and get near 55-60 to the gallon, but rarely do, certainly on a "I just want to be home" press on Sunday evening charge from the South, back home, it can be nearer 80-85 leptons, on a quiet m-way, where I still get circa 50mpg, and the car is still able to give fairly spirited (for a Golf) B road point and squirting on the rarer occasions this is possible and rarer I'm inclined. It just struck me that the 520 could be driven miserly to a degree but lacked a little in the latter.
Okay it is a big car, so some compromise is inevitable somewhere. I'm prepared to take a hit on some motorway miserly-ness for a bit more va-voom, but I reckon 40-45 mpg from a 6pot, I can live with that, for a slightly better matched engine.
As to 3 series, well they have never done it for me, and now there's just too many of them about, and in the similar way I prefer the A6 to A4, the latter in Avant form appeared to have little more boot space than my Golf. And not nearly enough. And I want a boot that swallows a lot of kit, and although I'm seeing an awful lot of E60s these days, I feel that 5 & A6 have had to make little compromise on interior space, on driver comfort, being exec saloons, and ought to have the room, to fit the best seats, they make, and pedals in the right place. Plus I can afford one, and run one. Why have a 3 series when I can have a 5?
Okay it is a big car, so some compromise is inevitable somewhere. I'm prepared to take a hit on some motorway miserly-ness for a bit more va-voom, but I reckon 40-45 mpg from a 6pot, I can live with that, for a slightly better matched engine.
As to 3 series, well they have never done it for me, and now there's just too many of them about, and in the similar way I prefer the A6 to A4, the latter in Avant form appeared to have little more boot space than my Golf. And not nearly enough. And I want a boot that swallows a lot of kit, and although I'm seeing an awful lot of E60s these days, I feel that 5 & A6 have had to make little compromise on interior space, on driver comfort, being exec saloons, and ought to have the room, to fit the best seats, they make, and pedals in the right place. Plus I can afford one, and run one. Why have a 3 series when I can have a 5?
Edited by Northern Munkee on Saturday 15th August 22:53
I can't argue with your analysis. For you, more fun is worth the worse fuel economy. Without wishing to sound like a scratched record, what I would like to say again is look very closely at the money you will save by sticking with diesel. I'm so focused on economy that diesel saves me thousands of Pounds over three years of 12-15,000/year, but it wouldn't take a much heavier foot to significantly reduce that saving. BMW petrol engines are very frugal and I bet a 320i wouldn't be far off the economy of a 530d. And to answer your question, unless I REALLY needed the space, I would take the more nimble 3-series over the 5 every time.
SonicHedgeHog said:
BMW petrol engines are very frugal and I bet a 320i wouldn't be far off the economy of a 530d. And to answer your question, unless I REALLY needed the space, I would take the more nimble 3-series over the 5 every time.
Please tell me that you're not trying to say a 320i is a better car than a 530d?a_bloke said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
BMW petrol engines are very frugal and I bet a 320i wouldn't be far off the economy of a 530d. And to answer your question, unless I REALLY needed the space, I would take the more nimble 3-series over the 5 every time.
Please tell me that you're not trying to say a 320i is a better car than a 530d?
In fact I would go as far to say the 3 series is a better all round car than the 5 series, I have had both, 535d sport touring and 335i sport touring and we had a 320d sport touring.
The 5 series is bought because of the more grown up image really, nothing it actually does better, slightly more space, but that is about it.
But back onto the 5 series.
Don't write off the touring, it will only have had a hard life pulling stuff if it has a tow bar for a start.
I would definitely take a petrol over the diesel if you can find one.
Don't expect to get 45mpg from a 525d auto, mate bought one and got 36mpg over 210k miles in 3 years, as you can probably imagine, he does a lot of motorway miles to cover 70k miles a year.
He swapped to a 530d, still pre facelift and did 180k miles in that over three years and that returned 38mpg, so better than the 525d.
I had a 535d sport and that returned 26mpg over a 10 months and 22k miles, I am currently getting 24.8mpg from a 3.2fsi A6 Quattro avant with the tiptronic box. On a run the 535d would return 33mpg sat at 85, sat at 70 it would return nearly 36mpg, the 3.2 petrol Audi does 32mpg at 85mph and 35mpg at 70mph.
There really isn't much in it with big diesel autos, and round town there is even less, short journeys all so kill diesel consumption.
I have just had the 3.0tdi A6 for a few days and on shorter journeys it uses more than my 3.2 petrol!! On a run it is only 3mpg better.
Seats in the SE and the sport I think are pretty pap. Lumbar is an option and no one specs it for some strange reason, however you can fold a tea towel up and put it behind the foam by removing the back panel of the seat, once it is done once that is it.
The headrests are also useless, more of a concern as a passenger, later models had the comfort headrests, much better.
The SE seats do not lift up high enough at the front to give decent thigh support, along with the crap boge/sachs suspension set up would make the SE a no go for me.
The Bilstein suspension on the M-Sport is far better at coping with the poor UK road surfaces, rough ride depends on tyres and nothing more, some 17" run flats are good, PS2 run flats in 18" are good, the rest are just terrible.
If you want economy then an LCI 520d with the joystick gearstick is the one to look at, 177bhp, you can remap it to 210bhp and then it is a nice car with enough poke, this will see around 44mpg average if you don't rag it.
I have the A6 and it is a far more refined car, it is also so, so, so much comfier than the 5 series. The interior is nicer and you don't feel you want to rag it every where unlike the BMW, but it is my second car, I would not want it as my only car cause it is just dull.
For me it would be a 530i sport, in touring guise, or I would fine a nice 545i. I wouldn't want another BMW diesel, they are a false economy, great if you're buying new, but when buying at the £15-20k mark you get so much more car for your money with the big petrols.
Example, buy a 530d for £20k and you can get a 545i the same age and mileage, but with far more toys on it for around 25% less. In 3 years time the prices start to level out again. Meaning someone who does 15k miles a year saves money buying the 545i, you need to do around 30k miles a year to break even with the diesel.
Plus you have a glorious V8 BMW to play with rather than a diesel.
Thanks Gizlaroc.
Food for thought indeed. I wish I could take the back off my Golf seat and slide a bit more padding in the seat back pad.
I'd figured there's a lot of ex-lease diesel cars around, but so long as they've had company car drivers, who are at least mildly sympathetic to a car they don't own, I'm thinking full BMW service, regardless of cost, and plenty of choice, spec, and colour, and lower prices due to plentiful supply.
I key worded Lumbar in Autotrader and figured it's a rare option, but an option nonetheless, and there is a few about.
Those mpg figures for diesel 525, 530 are a tad disappointing, and the thought of a 530i or a V8 petrol, is so tempting.
I was surprised and pleased that there are a fair few manual diesels, as I'd thought the diesels, apart from the 520 were all autos, and I'd like to try a manual box on 525d or 530d, I just prefer to be more in charge of the cogs.
So while I mull over your other insight (this is getting tricky), do you have any experience with diesel E60s with a manual box?
Food for thought indeed. I wish I could take the back off my Golf seat and slide a bit more padding in the seat back pad.
I'd figured there's a lot of ex-lease diesel cars around, but so long as they've had company car drivers, who are at least mildly sympathetic to a car they don't own, I'm thinking full BMW service, regardless of cost, and plenty of choice, spec, and colour, and lower prices due to plentiful supply.
I key worded Lumbar in Autotrader and figured it's a rare option, but an option nonetheless, and there is a few about.
Those mpg figures for diesel 525, 530 are a tad disappointing, and the thought of a 530i or a V8 petrol, is so tempting.
I was surprised and pleased that there are a fair few manual diesels, as I'd thought the diesels, apart from the 520 were all autos, and I'd like to try a manual box on 525d or 530d, I just prefer to be more in charge of the cogs.
So while I mull over your other insight (this is getting tricky), do you have any experience with diesel E60s with a manual box?
Edited by Northern Munkee on Sunday 16th August 19:50
Edited by Northern Munkee on Sunday 16th August 19:52
Northern Munkee said:
So while I mull over your other insight (this is getting tricky), do you have any experience with diesel E60s with a manual box?
I would never buy a diesel with a manual box, even my 320d sport touring had an Auto box. The problem you have with the 6cyl diesels is they go through the revs so quickly, and being diesel you still only have 2000rpm to play with, from 2000 through to just over 4000rpm.
This means you are swapping cogs very quickly and very often which after a while makes it a complete chore to drive on anything but the motorway.
If you like being in control then get a petrol, you will probably get pretty similar economy from a manual 530i as you would from an auto 530d, plus you have the benefits that come with a petrol.
Nice sound, much lighter upfront which makes a huge difference to the handling and balance of the car, and a sweet rev range that just makes you smile in a way a diesel never can.
Diesels are all about torque, and high torque suits autos perfectly.
You would want a manual 5er to be about 30% cheaper than the auto equivalent, and be aware than many dealers won't take them in part ex either when you want to sell it on. However, because they are rare you can move them on privately quite easily.
There is 5 pages of 530i's on autotrader under £16k. I have said it before, the E39 530i sport is the best all round car BMW have ever made, and arguably the best all round car ever made period, and the E60 has improved in many areas.
I would take a 530i over a 535d, and I would have to drive a 530i back to back with a 550i to make my mind up, that straight six 3 litre engine is just sublime, and as good as V8s are I'm not sure the extra weight justifies the extra grunt you get, with the E39 the 530i is a far better drive than the 540i, but that V8 growl is addictive.
a_bloke said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
BMW petrol engines are very frugal and I bet a 320i wouldn't be far off the economy of a 530d. And to answer your question, unless I REALLY needed the space, I would take the more nimble 3-series over the 5 every time.
Please tell me that you're not trying to say a 320i is a better car than a 530d?SonicHedgeHog said:
a_bloke said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
BMW petrol engines are very frugal and I bet a 320i wouldn't be far off the economy of a 530d. And to answer your question, unless I REALLY needed the space, I would take the more nimble 3-series over the 5 every time.
Please tell me that you're not trying to say a 320i is a better car than a 530d?SonicHedgeHog said:
a_bloke said:
SonicHedgeHog said:
BMW petrol engines are very frugal and I bet a 320i wouldn't be far off the economy of a 530d. And to answer your question, unless I REALLY needed the space, I would take the more nimble 3-series over the 5 every time.
Please tell me that you're not trying to say a 320i is a better car than a 530d?If you want go kart handling then you need something small and light - Clio 197 or something like that. Certainly not a 3 or a 5.
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