This is more like it - causing death by racing...
Discussion
Its a sad case, especially as two girls lost their lives. However, it is refreshing to see that the two blokes racing ended up with 8 years and 5 1/2 years each - both with at least 10 year driving bans....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/3335159.stm
It is refreshing to see that, at last, the courts are coming down on these people. Would like to see longer sentences, but conceed that this is probably as good as you are going to get.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/humber/3335159.stm
It is refreshing to see that, at last, the courts are coming down on these people. Would like to see longer sentences, but conceed that this is probably as good as you are going to get.
deltaf said:
And he had 6 previous for unfit thru dd...what a bastard! Serves him right, i hope he does the full 8
MMm, interesting one that one isnt it? What with this whole Huntley stuff as well - maybe its time to submit as evidence previous related crimes..... in this case he might have got more (though something tells me that he got the maximum sentence - but not sure).
pbrettle said:
It is refreshing to see that, at last, the courts are coming down on these people. Would like to see longer sentences, but conceed that this is probably as good as you are going to get.
Justified in this case, perhaps, but I should be careful about extending it to generalities abot 'racing'. There was a recent case in Scotland where someone who was charged withe speeding whilst he was overtaking, had replied, "I was not speeding when I commenced the manouevre, however the other driver speeded up during the monouevre, and I increased my speed to get past safely." The Procurator Fiscal (CPS in Scotland) then charged him with racing on the public highway. He was, thankfully, found not guilty, but, as I said, be careful about generalities.
pbrettle said:
MMm, interesting one that one isnt it? What with this whole Huntley stuff as well - maybe its time to submit as evidence previous related crimes..... in this case he might have got more (though something tells me that he got the maximum sentence - but not sure).
I believe the Judge is aware of previous convictions before he / she passes sentance but not the jury which IMHO is right and proper as a defendant should be tried on the evidence of that perticular case and not on past history.
Alan
>> Edited by alans on Friday 19th December 19:57
jeffreyarcher said:
It is refreshing to see that, at last, the courts are coming down on these people. Would like to see longer sentences, but conceed that this is probably as good as you are going to get.
Justified in this case, perhaps, but I should be careful about extending it to generalities abot 'racing'. There was a recent case in Scotland where someone who was charged withe speeding whilst he was overtaking, had replied, "I was not speeding when I commenced the manouevre, however the other driver speeded up during the monouevre, and I increased my speed to get past safely." The Procurator Fiscal (CPS in Scotland) then charged him with racing on the public highway. He was, thankfully, found not guilty, but, as I said, be careful about generalities.
Quite right. These two were pissed and behaving in an outrageous and irreponsible fashion.
If some complete
decides to floor it causing danger as you try to pass..well braking may be right thing to do and so may flooring it yourself depending on road positions and other circumstances.... I've been in this exact situation myself and it was safest to use the power of my car (Chimaera 450) to pass the complete shit...in those circumstances at that particular time...
And if there had been a speed camera there I'd been nicked....etc etc
The two drove from Cleethorpes throught Grimsby built up areas 30 limit [witness say above the 30 limit]untill the Lacby bypass dual carrage way almost straight road
Making overtacking manovers and blocking manovers so no wounder he lost it sverving from kerb to kerb at 80ish in a L or M reg Mondeo
The driver then lost control over the grass central reservation spun and mounted the kerb on the other side of the road sideways hitting the girls one went under the car
The driver then BUGGERED OFF and hid in a feild crying.
The other drove off
The police have been pushed [ i belive] to do speed checks on that bit of road and its a 70 limit but no armco a few people ther stopped for 71 to 74 and let off with a worl in they ear the few between 75 and 78.9 had to do a speed awearness course no one was above 78mph but lots of people saw the police and crawed past at 35/40mph
The council have been asked to put up armco along the road about 3 miles but so far only think sings and 17ksi signs.
the local paper at the time of the acident reported it as speed and problems with speed and since.
This is from the Grimsby evening Telegraph
'RACING MANOEUVRE LED TO DEATHS OF FRIENDS'
PHILLIP NORTON
12:30 - 17 December 2003
'RACING MANOEUVRE LED TO DEATHS OF FRIENDS'
PHILLIP NORTON
12:30 - 17 December 2003
Dummy manoeuvres were made on the Laceby bypass just before schoolgirls Amy Jones and Kayla Young were killed, Grimsby Crown Court has heard.
The first witness to arrive at the scene where the 13-year-old Healing Comprehensive School pupils died claimed yesterday that James Andrew Hill (29), of Brereton Avenue, Cleethorpes, was trying to pass 23-year-old David Priestley, of Bonby Grove, Grimsby, at around 8pm on Sunday, May 18. Geoffrey David Miller, an ex-Royal Engineer bomb disposal team member who now works as a lorry driver, had joined the A46 in his Land Rover Discovery from a row of houses near to Morrison's supermarket.
He told jurors he was heading towards Laceby at between 50 and 60mph when a red Vauxhall Astra GTE, being driven by Priestley, and a white Ford Mondeo, driven by Hill, passed him at an estimated 80mph.
"Two cars came at me, at speed, very fast. It made me jump," he said.
"They appeared to leave me standing.
"The white Mondeo moved to the left hand lane, more or less cutting me up.
"The Astra was in front and the Mondeo was trying to keep pace with it.
"They were very close, as if they were racing, side by side and going for it."
Mr Miller told the court that the Mondeo changed lanes several times to try to get past the Astra, but it was blocked.
"There were definitely two blocks made - the Mondeo lost it on the third attempt," he said.
"The Mondeo lost control, went straight across the central reservation - there were no barriers so it went over.
"The back end came around, so it was facing towards Morrison's, and it ended up in the ditch."
He told the jury he was distracted by his son commenting on the incident, so did not see the car hit the girls who were walking on the path. At the scene, he said Hill was dazed and he could smell beer on his breath.
Mr Miller was soon joined by Kevin Wayne Robins and his wife Kareena Louise Robins, who had been driving towards Laceby having been passed by the two cars just before the Cottagers Plot roundabout which gives access to Morrison's.
The couple turned back on themselves to help after spotting the Mondeo in bushes between the roundabout and the Laceby village turn-off.
Mr Robins stopped next to the Astra GTE, which had been parked nearby, and spoke to Priestley, the driver.
"I actually gave him a bit of verbal," he told the court.
"I asked him if the driver of the other car was all right and he said he didn't know.
"I said something along the lines of 'it serves you right.'
"He looked worried and sheepish. He got back in his car and drove off."
Priestley denies causing the girls' deaths by dangerous driving.
Hill pleaded guilty to causing their deaths by dangerous driving at an earlier hearing.
The trial continues.
'RACING MANOEUVRE LED TO DEATHS OF FRIENDS'
More on the stories of this and the Chief Constable of Humberside.
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59029&command=newPage
Paul.
>> Edited by fast westfield on Saturday 20th December 21:35
Making overtacking manovers and blocking manovers so no wounder he lost it sverving from kerb to kerb at 80ish in a L or M reg Mondeo
The driver then lost control over the grass central reservation spun and mounted the kerb on the other side of the road sideways hitting the girls one went under the car
The driver then BUGGERED OFF and hid in a feild crying.
The other drove off
The police have been pushed [ i belive] to do speed checks on that bit of road and its a 70 limit but no armco a few people ther stopped for 71 to 74 and let off with a worl in they ear the few between 75 and 78.9 had to do a speed awearness course no one was above 78mph but lots of people saw the police and crawed past at 35/40mph
The council have been asked to put up armco along the road about 3 miles but so far only think sings and 17ksi signs.
the local paper at the time of the acident reported it as speed and problems with speed and since.
This is from the Grimsby evening Telegraph
'RACING MANOEUVRE LED TO DEATHS OF FRIENDS'
PHILLIP NORTON
12:30 - 17 December 2003
'RACING MANOEUVRE LED TO DEATHS OF FRIENDS'
PHILLIP NORTON
12:30 - 17 December 2003
Dummy manoeuvres were made on the Laceby bypass just before schoolgirls Amy Jones and Kayla Young were killed, Grimsby Crown Court has heard.
The first witness to arrive at the scene where the 13-year-old Healing Comprehensive School pupils died claimed yesterday that James Andrew Hill (29), of Brereton Avenue, Cleethorpes, was trying to pass 23-year-old David Priestley, of Bonby Grove, Grimsby, at around 8pm on Sunday, May 18. Geoffrey David Miller, an ex-Royal Engineer bomb disposal team member who now works as a lorry driver, had joined the A46 in his Land Rover Discovery from a row of houses near to Morrison's supermarket.
He told jurors he was heading towards Laceby at between 50 and 60mph when a red Vauxhall Astra GTE, being driven by Priestley, and a white Ford Mondeo, driven by Hill, passed him at an estimated 80mph.
"Two cars came at me, at speed, very fast. It made me jump," he said.
"They appeared to leave me standing.
"The white Mondeo moved to the left hand lane, more or less cutting me up.
"The Astra was in front and the Mondeo was trying to keep pace with it.
"They were very close, as if they were racing, side by side and going for it."
Mr Miller told the court that the Mondeo changed lanes several times to try to get past the Astra, but it was blocked.
"There were definitely two blocks made - the Mondeo lost it on the third attempt," he said.
"The Mondeo lost control, went straight across the central reservation - there were no barriers so it went over.
"The back end came around, so it was facing towards Morrison's, and it ended up in the ditch."
He told the jury he was distracted by his son commenting on the incident, so did not see the car hit the girls who were walking on the path. At the scene, he said Hill was dazed and he could smell beer on his breath.
Mr Miller was soon joined by Kevin Wayne Robins and his wife Kareena Louise Robins, who had been driving towards Laceby having been passed by the two cars just before the Cottagers Plot roundabout which gives access to Morrison's.
The couple turned back on themselves to help after spotting the Mondeo in bushes between the roundabout and the Laceby village turn-off.
Mr Robins stopped next to the Astra GTE, which had been parked nearby, and spoke to Priestley, the driver.
"I actually gave him a bit of verbal," he told the court.
"I asked him if the driver of the other car was all right and he said he didn't know.
"I said something along the lines of 'it serves you right.'
"He looked worried and sheepish. He got back in his car and drove off."
Priestley denies causing the girls' deaths by dangerous driving.
Hill pleaded guilty to causing their deaths by dangerous driving at an earlier hearing.
The trial continues.
'RACING MANOEUVRE LED TO DEATHS OF FRIENDS'
More on the stories of this and the Chief Constable of Humberside.
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59029&command=newPage
Paul.
>> Edited by fast westfield on Saturday 20th December 21:35
More for the local paper
this bit is at odds with it all though
PLEDGE TO CURB BYPASS SPEEDING
12:30 - 20 December 2003
Crash barriers may have saved Kayla Young and Amy Jones, according to the head of traffic and road safety at North East Lincolnshire Council.
However David Poucher said there were no plans to introduce them on the path where the two 13-year-olds were walking and killed by Hill's car. He said: "Crash barriers may have saved them - but then if Hill had not been speeding or drinking, they wouldn't have died."
Mr Poucher said he was confident regular speed enforcement measures would soon be established along the A46 Laceby bypass.
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8208503
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8209458
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8208407
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8208505
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8208501
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8208506
www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=59380&command=displayContent&sourceNode=58907&contentPK=8208404
Paul.
fast westfield said:
"The head of traffic and road safety at North East Lincolnshire Council ... said there were no plans to introduce [crash barriers] on the path where the two 13-year-olds were walking and killed by Hill's car. He said: "Crash barriers may have saved them - but then if Hill had not been speeding or drinking, they wouldn't have died."
Mr Poucher said he was confident regular speed enforcement measures would soon be established along the A46 Laceby bypass."
So we have a 'classic' situation:
1) Crash barriers might have saved the girl's lives.
2) The primary cause of the loss of control was the fact that the driver was drunk, and was a serial drunk-driver who was three times over the limit.
3) A secondary cause was aggressive driving (ie. racing another car). This is bad driving.
4) Another cause was excessive speed for the conditions, namely: (being drunk) - engendered by the bad driving.
5) So (probably) speed cameras will be erected along that stretch ... despite that fact that they WOULD NOT HAVE PREVENTED (2), (3) or (4)!
I wonder what Mr Poucher would say to the mothers of those two girls? Maybe something along the lines of, "A barrier might well have saved them, but the likes of BRAKE are so fixated on speed control that we're going to do something that wouldn't have saved them!"
Do you see where your ranting is taking people Ms Williams! What would you say to those two mothers?
Streaky
>> Edited by streaky on Wednesday 21st January 11:58
alans said:
I believe the Judge is aware of previous convictions before he / she passes sentance but not the jury which IMHO is right and proper as a defendant should be tried on the evidence of that perticular case and not on past history.
Alan
>> Edited by alans on Friday 19th December 19:57
so the fact that this fat tw@t was a serial drink driver should have no bearing on his sentence? do me a lemon....
wedg1e - i'm with you. run that fkcuer over at 80 odd mph see if he likes it.
dontlift said:
Isnt it sad though that these pair are a footnote, yet huntley who also killed 2 girls (same crime in my book) is front page news, the only difference is the weapon used
This pair of idiots deserved everything they got, but it can hardly be classed as murder. I don't suppose they were ever intending to actually kill anyone, it was simply an unfortunate result of their apparent inability to behave themselves on the road.
It's a shame the same amount of effort to put up speed cameras is not applied to putting up armco, which may well have saved these girls lives. Just proves that speed cameras have nothing to do with safety just revenue collection. If only you could collect money from drivers everytime they touched the armco.....
my name is chrissie and im the mother of kayla one of the girls who was killed on the bypass that day.........im not here to preach but i want to say to people please be careful when uve been drinking and if you have to race your cars go somewhere safe to do it.........there two were complete idiots with no thought for others safety.the sentences were crap especially the 5 and half years but the law is crap cos the longest they could get was only 10 years..people get more for fraud is money more important than life? and as for the long driving bans i doubt either will take any notice when they get out.
ScoobyZoom said:
alans said:
I believe the Judge is aware of previous convictions before he / she passes sentance but not the jury which IMHO is right and proper as a defendant should be tried on the evidence of that perticular case and not on past history.
not only did this man have 6 previous convictions but exactly a year before the accident he was arrested for drink driving and gave a false name and address this wasnt found out until after he had killed someone.all he ever got on previous occasions was rehabilitation courses.....guess they dont work!he also has four children of his own.........be different if someone got pissed and hit his kid
>> Edited by alans on Friday 19th December 19:57
so the fact that this fat tw@t was a serial drink driver should have no bearing on his sentence? do me a lemon....
wedg1e - i'm with you. run that fkcuer over at 80 odd mph see if he likes it.
>> Edited by chrissie on Wednesday 21st January 10:18
>> Edited by chrissie on Wednesday 21st January 10:59
chrissie said:
my name is chrissie and im the mother of kayla one of the girls who was killed on the bypass that day.........im not here to preach but i want to say to people please be careful when uve been drinking and if you have to race your cars go somewhere safe to do it.........there two were complete idiots with no thought for others safety.the sentences were crap especially the 5 and half years but the law is crap cos the longest they could get was only 10 years..people get more for fraud is money more important than life? and as for the long driving bans i doubt either will take any notice when they get out.
I'm a father, and can think of nothing worse.
Deepest sympathy.
Mike.
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