Track Day Tyres (For the larger gentleman)

[Paul.B]

Hi all. My first posting in this forum, I normally frequent the Ultima pages! I'm after some advice if anyone can help?

I have a rather portly BMW 540i that is slowly being turned into the track day toy (Bagpuss to his mates!) and it currently has rather old Ventus tyres fitted. Frankly, these are dredful. What I need is some advice from folks who have experience of tyres on heavier cars.

I know A048's etc work well on Caterfields and the like and I know many rate the R888's & Khumos. What I need to know is which is best on a powerfull rear driver at 1,500+kgs?

Changes to car so far ....

Vortex supercharger (about 400bhp)
Low mileage 4.4 engine (6-spd manual)
GAZ coil overs all round
Powerflex Black polly bushes
AP 330's with 4-pot's up front
Genuine 18" Alpina wheels (235 front & 265 rears)
Most of the interior is stripped


My thinking at the moment is to go down the quality road tyre route, maybe Goodyear Eagle F1's or the like. Not as much grip as the semi slicks but useable in the wet!!! But not sure how these would cope with sustained hard use.

My driving style is extra smoooooth. The cars sole purpose is track days and the odd 'Ring trip. It will be trailored to most events so road manners are not at all important.


Cheers folks


Paul.B

[swtmerce]

Use road tyres and they will be wasted after each track day. The soft sidewalls will ensure your outside shoulders will be non-existent at the end of the day. Any track day tyre will put up with more abuse than road tyres. However, I can't help you with which track tyres may work better with heavier cars.

[gaxor]

When I tracked a Porsche Turbo (Nearly 2 tonnes) we used Michelin Cup Tyres

Gary

[PetrolTed]

911 GT3 RS, 1400kg, Toyo R888, worked hard the rears will last 4-5 track days.

[jleroux]

PetrolTed said:

911 GT3 RS, 1400kg, Toyo R888, worked hard the rears will last 4-5 track days.

I reckon you could do a set in a day if you worked them *really* hard though Dave :-P

[PetrolTed]

That's driving, not looning

[mmm-five]

Well, a set of Pirelli P-Zero Corsa lasted 2 days on a 1800kg e34 M5.

[Paul.B]

I do keep coming back to the R888's. How good/bad are they in damp or wet conditions? I know if there is standing water then pack up & go home but will they cope with a typical (2009) summer shower or when the standing water has gone and the track is drying?

Anyone tried the R888's and Khumos?

Cheers

Paul.B

[dax turbo]

I run 888s on the dax, but don't go out in the rain if i can help it. Did silverstone last sept and it was wet and v. slippy. agree with comments so far as to need for track tyres as road tyres will get lunched v. quickly. kumho v70s come in a much more water orientated tread than 888s http://www.kumhotyre.co.uk/Motorsports/KH_brochure...

...or with all that space in a 5 series u could get some 2nd hand slicks and stick em in boot / back seat...17s quite popular slick size. you'll get more grip and track time out of slicks...u may need to sort out baffled sump or acusump though

[swtmerce]

888s and rain = fun.

The video was taken at Anglesey with light rain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIQkOuoaaKE

However, I guess it depends on the car if it'll be fun or too hairy but since your car is the same as mine in terms of a front engined RWD layout, I guess it'll be fine.

[Toltec]

Paul.B said:

I do keep coming back to the R888's. How good/bad are they in damp or wet conditions? I know if there is standing water then pack up & go home but will they cope with a typical (2009) summer shower or when the standing water has gone and the track is drying?

Anyone tried the R888's and Khumos?

Cheers

Paul.B

Only done one day with the Wedge when it was damp first thing, the R888s were fine. In the dry we have had to take the inside front tyre as high as 38psi to keep it off the sidewall at Brands, so how well they would work on something as heavy as a 540? I have been wondering about trying the Hankooks, they will probably be less grippy, but I am not worried by that as long as the do not melt like road tyres.

[DiscoColin]

swtmerce said:

Use road tyres and they will be wasted after each track day.

Erm - no. Not all road tyres are created equal. My car is admittedly in the <1400kg range, but the current extra load rated Michelin PS2s have so far lasted 5 full track days, a carlimits day, 2 days on the ring, thousands of intervening miles on the road and should last at least 1 (maybe 2) full fat OPL days before the skip beckons. They are also very good on a wet track once you have a little bit of temperature in them.

Okay - if you used el-cheapo brand X or some other decent tyres that are more than fine for normal performance road driving then they probably will fall to bits in a day, but get good ones, manage them properly and keep the pressures where they should be and road tyres are a very viable (if slightly less grippy) option.

I would rule out Kumhos on medium to heavy cars as I have been told by people that have competed on them that they go off fairly quickly (though good for a few laps at sprint pace). R888s are normally considered the best price/performance option. Michelin Cups supposed to be a little better but you pay a significant price for that.

[Paul.B]

dax turbo said:

I run 888s on the dax, but don't go out in the rain if i can help it. Did silverstone last sept and it was wet and v. slippy. agree with comments so far as to need for track tyres as road tyres will get lunched v. quickly. kumho v70s come in a much more water orientated tread than 888s http://www.kumhotyre.co.uk/Motorsports/KH_brochure...

...or with all that space in a 5 series u could get some 2nd hand slicks and stick em in boot / back seat...17s quite popular slick size. you'll get more grip and track time out of slicks...u may need to sort out baffled sump or acusump though

I do intend getting a second set of wheels and having a dry and wet set up. I really want another set of 18" Alpinas. I think they look the mutts finished in black. Budget won't run to that though at the moment and I'm looking to try and cover as many bases I can with one set. Probably mission impossible but I like a challenge!

Thanks to all for their replies - keep 'em coming, the answer lies out there somewhere!

Paul.B

[Porkie]

I've run R888's on both road and track in full weight 1700kg plus Skyline R34 GTR and my 996 Turbo. Apart from the harsher ride and tyre noise, I dont see a problem in using them on the road. They are fine in damp and wet weather. They just don't like EXTREME standing water.

I've also used dunlop D01' do2's and DO3's, and Yoko A048rs and Pirell
i corsas..

For the money they cost and the way they perform I would say the R888's are awesome!

[jon-]

The Kumho V70a in hard compound should last ok, at the very least comparable with the R888's and I prefer them.

I'll echo the sentiments of above, only a very few road tyres wouldn't overheat on you in a second. Forget anything from the Goodyear range, as well as the popular Toyo T1R as you'll rip them to shreds.

The only road tyres I'd put on that car that I've used would be the Bridgestone S02's (which are likes hens teeth now) or the Michelin Pilot Sports, which aren't cheap. And I've seen a set of pilot sports fall apart on a medium weight car (though they were used almost non stop all day from new!)

[teabagger]

Falken 452's are hard wearing but still grip well. I had a set on my full fat e36 m3. They did very well on track for a cheaper road tyre.

[Paul.B]

I'm going to try the R888's. The price difference between them and Goodyear F1's is negligable and they are a more suited tyre for the cars purpose. It is after all a track car!
How good they will be on a heavy powerfull RWD saloon only time will tell. If they are manageable in the wet then that is an added bonus.

I'll let you know my thoughts once installed and tested. I'm up at Oulton on the 21st August.

Thanks again

Paul.B

[swtmerce]

Make sure you get the right size - just in case you didn't know, track tyres aren't the same width as road tyres even though they have the same width measurement.

[Paul.B]

swtmerce said:

Make sure you get the right size - just in case you didn't know, track tyres aren't the same width as road tyres even though they have the same width measurement.

That is a bit worrying What measurement is different?

I have just ordered the tyres x2 235/40/18's (front) & x2 265/35/18's (rear)


I shopped around and paid £159.00 front & £163.00 rear inc VAT + £6 delivery which I thought was not half bad!


Paul.B

[mat205125]

Paul.B said:

swtmerce said:

Make sure you get the right size - just in case you didn't know, track tyres aren't the same width as road tyres even though they have the same width measurement.

That is a bit worrying What measurement is different?

I have just ordered the tyres x2 235/40/18's (front) & x2 265/35/18's (rear)


I shopped around and paid £159.00 front & £163.00 rear inc VAT + £6 delivery which I thought was not half bad!


Paul.B

Most "track day" tyres will use exactly the same measuring markings and methods that you are familiar with, however their actual physical dimensions can vary a little, as can all brands and makes of tyres of the same size.



Purpose designed race and rally tyres come sized by wheel diameter in inches as normal, and tread width as normal. Instead of stating an aspect ratio, however, they will state the tyre's rolling diameter.

Check out this table

http://www.dunlopdriversclub.co.uk/tyres/specialis...