Brumstorm's at it again
Discussion
The Times, 18/12/03
THREE million motorists will get speed camera fines next year, up from 1.1 million in 2001, and the number will keep rising as the “trigger speed” is lowered, a chief constable said yesterday.
In future drivers can expect to be prosecuted at 33mph in a 30mph zone, Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales and head of road policing at the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), said.
Cameras are now triggered only at 35mph, but Mr Brunstrom said that forces were under pressure from road safety groups “to enforce closer to the limit”. The 35mph threshold was chosen for the margin of error in the equipment. Acpo is conducting a review, to be completed within six months, which he expected would approve a lower cutoff.
Every mile per hour above 30mph added to the risk of death or serious injury in a collision, the chief constable said. He hoped that the threshold could be lowered to 33mph during 2004.
The 40mph limit, currently enforced at 46mph, would also be reduced, possibly to 43mph. “We can reduce the margin of error in the machines and also reduce the human error factor,” he said.
Mr Brunstrom said that he also wanted to see cameras placed on roads where there was no history of crashes. At present cameras can only be introduced on a road where there have been more than four deaths or serious injuries in the previous three years. Mr Brunstrom told the Commons Transport Select Committee: “The guidelines are going to have to be loosened. As we eliminate crash hotspots we are going to have to look elsewhere to reduce casualties.”
Speaking outside the committee, Mr Brunstrom said that the number of camera fines this year would exceed two million. He admitted that public support for cameras had declined slightly, although he said that 75 per cent were still in favour.
Mr Brunstrom said that all forces should have the option of allowing a driver to attend a road safety course rather than receive three points for a speeding offence. At present only a handful of forces offer such courses and there is no national policy.
Mr Brunstrom also announced trials of roadside fingerprinting next summer.
Police will be able to check the identities of people they stop for motoring offences and cross reference with the National Criminal Database. Several studies have shown that people who commit motoring offences are more likely than others to be involved in other illegal activity.
THREE million motorists will get speed camera fines next year, up from 1.1 million in 2001, and the number will keep rising as the “trigger speed” is lowered, a chief constable said yesterday.
In future drivers can expect to be prosecuted at 33mph in a 30mph zone, Richard Brunstrom, the Chief Constable of North Wales and head of road policing at the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo), said.
Cameras are now triggered only at 35mph, but Mr Brunstrom said that forces were under pressure from road safety groups “to enforce closer to the limit”. The 35mph threshold was chosen for the margin of error in the equipment. Acpo is conducting a review, to be completed within six months, which he expected would approve a lower cutoff.
Every mile per hour above 30mph added to the risk of death or serious injury in a collision, the chief constable said. He hoped that the threshold could be lowered to 33mph during 2004.
The 40mph limit, currently enforced at 46mph, would also be reduced, possibly to 43mph. “We can reduce the margin of error in the machines and also reduce the human error factor,” he said.
Mr Brunstrom said that he also wanted to see cameras placed on roads where there was no history of crashes. At present cameras can only be introduced on a road where there have been more than four deaths or serious injuries in the previous three years. Mr Brunstrom told the Commons Transport Select Committee: “The guidelines are going to have to be loosened. As we eliminate crash hotspots we are going to have to look elsewhere to reduce casualties.”
Speaking outside the committee, Mr Brunstrom said that the number of camera fines this year would exceed two million. He admitted that public support for cameras had declined slightly, although he said that 75 per cent were still in favour.
Mr Brunstrom said that all forces should have the option of allowing a driver to attend a road safety course rather than receive three points for a speeding offence. At present only a handful of forces offer such courses and there is no national policy.
Mr Brunstrom also announced trials of roadside fingerprinting next summer.
Police will be able to check the identities of people they stop for motoring offences and cross reference with the National Criminal Database. Several studies have shown that people who commit motoring offences are more likely than others to be involved in other illegal activity.
Cameras on roads with a history of speed-related KSIs may generate a reduction in those KSIs through regression to the mean, etc. It's very unlikely that a camera on a road with no history of speed-related KSIs could do the same thing.
Therefore, it's just possible that by giving him enough rope on this one, he'll go too far. Once even his own stats don't support his argument then he'll be lost.
Therefore, it's just possible that by giving him enough rope on this one, he'll go too far. Once even his own stats don't support his argument then he'll be lost.
Peter Ward said:So, in the manner of politicos today, he'll reinterpret the statistics or find another argument. Closed minds are like oysters ... but I won't go into how you can open them for fears of another 'death threats' backlash
Cameras on roads with a history of speed-related KSIs may generate a reduction in those KSIs through regression to the mean, etc. It's very unlikely that a camera on a road with no history of speed-related KSIs could do the same thing.
Therefore, it's just possible that by giving him enough rope on this one, he'll go too far. Once even his own stats don't support his argument then he'll be lost.
- StreakyPeter Ward said:
Cameras on roads with a history of speed-related KSIs may generate a reduction in those KSIs through regression to the mean, etc. It's very unlikely that a camera on a road with no history of speed-related KSIs could do the same thing.
Therefore, it's just possible that by giving him enough rope on this one, he'll go too far. Once even his own stats don't support his argument then he'll be lost.
But they present the stats in such a way that they can't lose.
We have just seen a claim from Arrive Deprived of a reduction in KSI for 2002 of 35%. When we look at the actual figures, the reduction from 2001 was 1%.
They get the 35% by comparing 2002 with the average of several years in the late Nineties.
They are now claiming that the fall in 2003 is on target for a 41% reduction.
By doing this, even if fatalities rose over a previous year, they can still claim a reduction on the base average.
Sick or what?
Tafia said:
But they present the stats in such a way that they can't lose.
We have just seen a claim from Arrive Deprived of a reduction in KSI for 2002 of 35%. When we look at the actual figures, the reduction from 2001 was 1%.
They get the 35% by comparing 2002 with the average of several years in the late Nineties.
They are now claiming that the fall in 2003 is on target for a 41% reduction.
By doing this, even if fatalities rose over a previous year, they can still claim a reduction on the base average.
Sick or what?
We need someone to get these facts into the media. Safespeed? ABD?
Trefor said:
Anyone living locally have data on the % increase in their council tax for local policing next year and recent crime stats for Brainstorm's local patch?
If the scamera surplus went to the local councils instead of central governement, North Wales could be the first area in the UK to recieve annual rates refunds instead of the ever increasing bills the rest of us are faced with.
DAZ
Peter Ward said:
But they present the stats in such a way that they can't lose.
We have just seen a claim from Arrive Deprived of a reduction in KSI for 2002 of 35%. When we look at the actual figures, the reduction from 2001 was 1%.
They get the 35% by comparing 2002 with the average of several years in the late Nineties.
They are now claiming that the fall in 2003 is on target for a 41% reduction.
By doing this, even if fatalities rose over a previous year, they can still claim a reduction on the base average.
Sick or what?
We need someone to get these facts into the media. Safespeed? ABD?
I've already done quite well pointing out the errors in North Wales Camera statistics. I'm waiting quietly to hit hard when they publish 2003 figures. I'm expecting them to make a key mistake and I don't intend to forewarn them.
Best Regards,
Paul Smith
Safe Speed
www.safespeed.org.uk
Peter Ward said:
But they present the stats in such a way that they can't lose.
We have just seen a claim from Arrive Deprived of a reduction in KSI for 2002 of 35%. When we look at the actual figures, the reduction from 2001 was 1%.
They get the 35% by comparing 2002 with the average of several years in the late Nineties.
They are now claiming that the fall in 2003 is on target for a 41% reduction.
By doing this, even if fatalities rose over a previous year, they can still claim a reduction on the base average.
Sick or what?
We need someone to get these facts into the media. Safespeed? ABD?
I am doing my best to do just that!
Gazboy said:
Gazboy said:
The only thing he said of any use is he thinks you should have a choice between free driver training or three points. The rest was bullshit.
Didn't say free did he?
The ones I've heard of were free.
Clearly, another of his factual errors.........
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