clutch problem on the E21

[E21_Ross]

right, my clutch seems to be playing up a little bit and i'm not entirely sure what it is. basically, when driving along, it selects gears fine....but say if i'm stuck at the lights with the clutch down, it begins to want to move off and the biting point is very different, anbd the pedal does not spring back like normal. but once i've selected 2nd...then 3rd and so on, it's fine. its also bad if i go into reverse, reverse for a small bit, leave the clutch down, go into 1st and go to move off, with the clutch down i move out of reverse, and sometimes it won't select 1st, as if i'm above the biting point so i lower the pedal more and it works, but with a lower than usual biting point and sticky/non-springy pedal return. however, if i put it back into neutral and pump the pedal a few times, the normal feel returns and it sets off in 1st like normal.

the clutch is new-ish and has only about 5k miles on it so it's not the clutch itself. a while ago (about 10-11months i guess) the car suddenly wouldn't select gear even if i mashed the pedal to the floor so the following work was done:

"renew clutch slave cylinder repair and top up master cylinder and bleed."

so surely it can't be the slave cylinder as that is renewed about 8k miles ago...could it be the master cylinder going??

thanks for any help guys and cheers for reading.

[stevieturbo]

What's an E21 ?


Just because parts were repalced recently, doesnt mean they were either installed right, or couldnt have gone faulty.

But it doesn sound possibly like a hydraulic issue, and could well be the master cylinder.

Have you tried getting someone to watch the slaves movement as the pedal is pressed ? Is it a direct action ?

Is there any sloppyness ?

If you hold the pedal down for say 5 minutes, does the slave hold position ?

[MrFlibbles]

Stevie - its the 3 series before the e30.

OP - Master cylinder.

[E21_Ross]

stevieturbo said:

What's an E21 ?


Just because parts were repalced recently, doesnt mean they were either installed right, or couldnt have gone faulty.

But it doesn sound possibly like a hydraulic issue, and could well be the master cylinder.

Have you tried getting someone to watch the slaves movement as the pedal is pressed ? Is it a direct action ?

Is there any sloppyness ?

If you hold the pedal down for say 5 minutes, does the slave hold position ?

not had someone check it yet, but it's currently at the garage down the road and should get looked at today. i drove it in there this morning and it was absolutely fine, but i was leaving it in neutral with clutch up at the lights and so on, as i know something is not right. it may just be a small leak from a hose or whatever causing pressure loss, i don't know. my guess is, as mrflibbles said, the master cylinder...but who knows. and yes, it's a very old 3 series...1982 mine was made.

will let you know the verdict!

thanks

[E21_Ross]

garage just phoned me up...it shall be getting a new master cylinder. they said fluid level was low so it wasn't an air lock, and the slave cylinder wasn't wet, but the master was. should be ready for collection after work today not bad really, taking it there out of the blue this morning without booking, and it gets sorted same day huh

[Mr2Mike]

E21_Ross said:

i drove it in there this morning and it was absolutely fine, but i was leaving it in neutral with clutch up at the lights and so on, as i know something is not right.

You should be doing this anyway, not a good idea to sit for ages with the car in gear and your foot on the clutch.

[E21_Ross]

Mr2Mike said:

E21_Ross said:

i drove it in there this morning and it was absolutely fine, but i was leaving it in neutral with clutch up at the lights and so on, as i know something is not right.

You should be doing this anyway, not a good idea to sit for ages with the car in gear and your foot on the clutch.

how come? bad for the slave is it??

cheers

[MrFlibbles]

E21_Ross said:

Mr2Mike said:

E21_Ross said:

i drove it in there this morning and it was absolutely fine, but i was leaving it in neutral with clutch up at the lights and so on, as i know something is not right.

You should be doing this anyway, not a good idea to sit for ages with the car in gear and your foot on the clutch.

how come? bad for the slave is it??

cheers

Bad for the clutch release bearing i think?

[Marquis_Rex]

Solution-change that M10 out for an M20

[E21_Ross]

Marquis_Rex said:

Solution-change that M10 out for an M20

nah... in a few years down the line when i can afford it, i know a guy who is able to fit a 2.5 M50 into it, from an e34 525i. much better than an M20

needless to say he's good at working on older beemers!! another option is the M42 from the 318is, which is a great twin cam 4 pot! but like the M50 it's custom everything, so it ain't cheap!

[Marquis_Rex]

E21_Ross said:

Marquis_Rex said:

Solution-change that M10 out for an M20

nah... in a few years down the line when i can afford it, i know a guy who is able to fit a 2.5 M50 into it, from an e34 525i. much better than an M20

needless to say he's good at working on older beemers!! another option is the M42 from the 318is, which is a great twin cam 4 pot! but like the M50 it's custom everything, so it ain't cheap!

Except the M50 weights about 30 kgs more than the M20. So you'll have all of the handling of a 70s Dodge Challenger (but none of the power )

M42- 2nd order 4 cylinder vibration?

[190E Matt]

What about dropping the S50 in then?

[Marquis_Rex]

190E Matt said:

What about dropping the S50 in then?

That's 70 kgs heavier than the M20 ;-)

[E21_Ross]

Marquis_Rex said:

E21_Ross said:

Marquis_Rex said:

Solution-change that M10 out for an M20

nah... in a few years down the line when i can afford it, i know a guy who is able to fit a 2.5 M50 into it, from an e34 525i. much better than an M20

needless to say he's good at working on older beemers!! another option is the M42 from the 318is, which is a great twin cam 4 pot! but like the M50 it's custom everything, so it ain't cheap!

M42- 2nd order 4 cylinder vibration?

have you ever been in an E30 318is? cracking engine....way better than the M20, lighter, more powerful, more revvy...i could go on. only thing is, no 6 cylinder sound track

the M20 isn't exactly a great engine is it...it's ok i guess.

[190E Matt]

Marquis_Rex said:

190E Matt said:

What about dropping the S50 in then?

That's 70 kgs heavier than the M20 ;-)

I thought the M20 was getting on a bit, but it seems you reckon otherwise?

[D.K.Dalton]

Hope your problem is now solved, but if you continue to have trouble check the actuation arm and its pivot. I had a problem on a E21 ( fitted with 5 speed box) which had covered over 150th trouble free miles. It was the ball which was worn on mine, this fits into the bell housing and was replaced with a cam follower adjuster from a Ford 2 Ltr. Pinto! following a sudden atack of latteral thinking. It was still going strong when the car was sold with over 200th miles on the clock. The E21 was one of the best cars I have ever owned and that includes my present Merc. so best of luck.
David

[Marquis_Rex]

190E Matt said:

Marquis_Rex said:

190E Matt said:

What about dropping the S50 in then?

That's 70 kgs heavier than the M20 ;-)

I thought the M20 was getting on a bit, but it seems you reckon otherwise?

I didn't say it wasn't "getting on a bit"- but modern engines are often heavy. This should bother you unless you're an American (the number of Americans who put M20 annd M30s into BMW 2002s )and don't care about handling.

Bear in mind the M20 engined E21 bears 56.5% of its weight over the front wheels as standard. WHy would you want to make this balance worse? You can stretch the M20 out to over 3 litres and get close to 240 Bhp if not more- the engine will still weigh around 170-175 Kgs mark- in my book that pips it over the 200 kg or 240 kg M50 or S50. The only recent engine that is superbly suitable in the BMW armory is the all aluminium M52 which actually weighs less than the M20.

[E21_Ross]

D.K.Dalton said:

Hope your problem is now solved, but if you continue to have trouble check the actuation arm and its pivot. I had a problem on a E21 ( fitted with 5 speed box) which had covered over 150th trouble free miles. It was the ball which was worn on mine, this fits into the bell housing and was replaced with a cam follower adjuster from a Ford 2 Ltr. Pinto! following a sudden atack of latteral thinking. It was still going strong when the car was sold with over 200th miles on the clock. The E21 was one of the best cars I have ever owned and that includes my present Merc. so best of luck.
David

hi,

great to hear you liked your E21 the problem is now solved but still not fixed, the problem was the clutch master cylinder, it's seals had gone! i will bear that tip in mind it may come in useful one day!
thanks