S3 - more power - your thoughts
Discussion
People,
The obvious answer to this question is buy a V8S. However changing my car is probably not an option.
My car is also set up and tuned correctly and running like a peach.
Within a budget of say £500 do I have any options to improve power.
What I really want to achieve is better acceleration not worried about top end.
Has anyboby had any experiances of this?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks Gary
The obvious answer to this question is buy a V8S. However changing my car is probably not an option.
My car is also set up and tuned correctly and running like a peach.
Within a budget of say £500 do I have any options to improve power.
What I really want to achieve is better acceleration not worried about top end.
Has anyboby had any experiances of this?
Thoughts? Suggestions?
Thanks Gary
lightened flywheel..? Have your 2.9 lightened or replace with a 2.8 unit.
Although I have read conflicting opinions on weather TVR used the lighter 2.8 flywheel on the 2.9 cars as standard so this could be duff information. However in std ford terms the 2.8 flywheel is much lighter than the 2.9. I will check what's in mine before the engine goes back in but cannot confirm either way at the moment.
This would directly effect acceleration.
Damian
Although I have read conflicting opinions on weather TVR used the lighter 2.8 flywheel on the 2.9 cars as standard so this could be duff information. However in std ford terms the 2.8 flywheel is much lighter than the 2.9. I will check what's in mine before the engine goes back in but cannot confirm either way at the moment.
This would directly effect acceleration.
Damian
Have a read of THIS
http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/s/default.asp?story...
Quite a few of us have had this fitted.
Might be worth a call to ask if they still fit the Dastek chip.
My results - Before & After
Much more grunt and torque low end with a smoother transition.
http://www.pistonheads.com/tvr/s/default.asp?story...
Quite a few of us have had this fitted.
Might be worth a call to ask if they still fit the Dastek chip.
My results - Before & After
Much more grunt and torque low end with a smoother transition.
Since the gearbox is the Type9 the flywheel is the 2.8. 'lightened flywheel' doesn't give you any better acceleration, imaging what the 1-2kg that you can lightend the flywheel is compared to the rest of the car (1000kg). A ligthened flywheel will only make the enginee rev better when the clutch is down (better response). The 2.9 flywheel is around 5mm thicker than the 2.8
Don't know how to quote - "Since the gearbox is the Type9 the flywheel is the 2.8. 'lightened flywheel' doesn't give you any better acceleration, imaging what the 1-2kg that you can lightend the flywheel is compared to the rest of the car (1000kg). A ligthened flywheel will only make the enginee rev better when the clutch is down (better response). The 2.9 flywheel is around 5mm thicker than the 2.8"
Sorry got to disagree here.. I remember reading a drag racing document where every kilo of flywheel weight was equated to xx kilos in vehicle weight in terms of improving acceleration.
They wouldn't be much use if it was simply for clutch down response.?
What about the cars with MT gearboxes,are these typically fitted with the 2.8 or 2.9 flywheeel..?
Damian
Sorry got to disagree here.. I remember reading a drag racing document where every kilo of flywheel weight was equated to xx kilos in vehicle weight in terms of improving acceleration.
They wouldn't be much use if it was simply for clutch down response.?
What about the cars with MT gearboxes,are these typically fitted with the 2.8 or 2.9 flywheeel..?
Damian
When I was a kid (long time ago) a "must do" when tuning an engine was Lightened flywheel and balance crank, flywheel and clutch cover (pressure plate). Don't know all the technical stuff but I'm sure this has some benefits when accelerating and not just reving up in neutral ? Its not about losing overall weight from the car.
Why don't you have a look for a Turbo Technics conversion as fitted to many Sierra XR4s, there was one on e-bay a few months ago for £350 that a bloke had bought years ago and never fitted to a car (i didn't have my S1 then or i would have bought it). I don't know if these kits are still available new and how much they are but old converted Sierras come along now then for not too much money and then you get a load of spares to that you can keep for your S or sell on to get some money back.
e-bay item 190327390160
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/xri-4x4-engine-gearbox-turbo...
e-bay item 190327390160
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/xri-4x4-engine-gearbox-turbo...
Edited by graham kay on Monday 10th August 23:01
Edited by graham kay on Monday 10th August 23:03
Mmm it's difficult really, depends how much you want.
I'd be tempted to supercharge the engine.
If not change the cam and port the intakes. Mine pulls much better at higher revs thanks to a nice kent cam.
To be honest, you may want to improve the suspension and brakes to make it to go faster so maybe an upgrade to V8S/Chimaera/Griffith may be the easiest option. Depends how far you want to go.
I'd be tempted to supercharge the engine.
If not change the cam and port the intakes. Mine pulls much better at higher revs thanks to a nice kent cam.
To be honest, you may want to improve the suspension and brakes to make it to go faster so maybe an upgrade to V8S/Chimaera/Griffith may be the easiest option. Depends how far you want to go.
graham kay said:
Why don't you have a look for a Turbo Technics conversion as fitted to many Sierra XR4s, there was one on e-bay a few months ago for £350 that a bloke had bought years ago and never fitted to a car (i didn't have my S1 then or i would have bought it). I don't know if these kits are still available new and how much they are but old converted Sierras come along now then for not too much money and then you get a load of spares to that you can keep for your S or sell on to get some money back.
e-bay item 190327390160
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/xri-4x4-engine-gearbox-turbo...
Only slight problem is that a Sierra turbo kit won't fit: it's designed for the exhaust going down the rear of the engine not the front and the manifold / turbo combination is wider than the space available in an S and would foul the bulkhead / inner wing.e-bay item 190327390160
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/xri-4x4-engine-gearbox-turbo...
What you would need to do is fit a turbo to one side of the downpipes (or both!) in front of the engine not in the manifold itself. Long intake / exhast tracts might make it a bit "laggy" though.
Don't now too much about it myself - this was what I was told at a car show 3 years ago by a man who used to fit turbo kits in their heyday.
Not saying it can't be done - just it's not as simple as fitting the Sierra parts...
Hi Gary, hope you and your son are well 
2 good friends of mine have faced similar dilemmas in the past (not with TVR's though). One went down the financial slippery slope of Captain Kirk, i.e. "I need more power Scotty", which ended up several years later and costing him a lot more than he'd budgeted. The other guy realised that he was not actually making the full use of the power that his car already had so spent his money on some advanced driver training (Ride Drive etc) after he'd got his suspension and brakes properly set up.
After a while it was the 2nd guy who was getting from A to B the quickest and safest of the two and he was also able to "out perform" much more powerful and exotic cars.
Please don't think that I'm saying you're not a good or capable driver, I'm not! The point I am trying to make is that for £500 (or less!!) you may get more out of your car as it is at the moment - you say it's running well - rather than trying to get more power out of it. I know if I had some money to throw at my car at the moment it'd be ME that I'd be putting in for an upgrade!!!! Unless of course I had more than £500 in which case I'd be converting my S into a Tamora
Just thought I'd offer it as an alternative to consider
Longers
2 good friends of mine have faced similar dilemmas in the past (not with TVR's though). One went down the financial slippery slope of Captain Kirk, i.e. "I need more power Scotty", which ended up several years later and costing him a lot more than he'd budgeted. The other guy realised that he was not actually making the full use of the power that his car already had so spent his money on some advanced driver training (Ride Drive etc) after he'd got his suspension and brakes properly set up.
After a while it was the 2nd guy who was getting from A to B the quickest and safest of the two and he was also able to "out perform" much more powerful and exotic cars.
Please don't think that I'm saying you're not a good or capable driver, I'm not! The point I am trying to make is that for £500 (or less!!) you may get more out of your car as it is at the moment - you say it's running well - rather than trying to get more power out of it. I know if I had some money to throw at my car at the moment it'd be ME that I'd be putting in for an upgrade!!!! Unless of course I had more than £500 in which case I'd be converting my S into a Tamora
Just thought I'd offer it as an alternative to consider
Longers
I was doing some calcs on flywheel lightening and stumbled across this article.
Sums it up correctly and clears up some of the chav myths
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/FLYWHEEL.htm
In summary for our car its about 1kg flywheel mass = 30kg chassis mass (assuming you take 1kg from teh rim of the fly wheel, more realistically half this 1kg = 15kg)
may also make you rethink larger wheels if they come with a larger mass.
In summary an extra kg of wheel mass will equate to 1.75 kg of mass on the chassis so an extra 0.75kg to accelerate per corner above the extra wheel weight!
Sums it up correctly and clears up some of the chav myths
http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/FLYWHEEL.htm
In summary for our car its about 1kg flywheel mass = 30kg chassis mass (assuming you take 1kg from teh rim of the fly wheel, more realistically half this 1kg = 15kg)
may also make you rethink larger wheels if they come with a larger mass.
In summary an extra kg of wheel mass will equate to 1.75 kg of mass on the chassis so an extra 0.75kg to accelerate per corner above the extra wheel weight!
People,
Thanks for all the reply's
Jed - you are correct (I spend half my life on managment development training, so really should know the differance between an open and a closed question. Quote R Kippling "I have six honest serving men" blah blah blah
) so - What are your experiances of this?
Ian - good point, I have another thread on suspension I will be upgrading mine over the winter but I agree that most of us could improve our driving technique.
Bridgdav - interesting - I had a change to ECU and mapping in mind, I note your article was written in November 2003, presuming you still own the car has it been a reliable and worthwhile upgrade over time?
Thanks Gary
Thanks for all the reply's
Jed - you are correct (I spend half my life on managment development training, so really should know the differance between an open and a closed question. Quote R Kippling "I have six honest serving men" blah blah blah
) so - What are your experiances of this? Ian - good point, I have another thread on suspension I will be upgrading mine over the winter but I agree that most of us could improve our driving technique.
Bridgdav - interesting - I had a change to ECU and mapping in mind, I note your article was written in November 2003, presuming you still own the car has it been a reliable and worthwhile upgrade over time?
Thanks Gary
The article was written by Podie.. An EX S owner, who moved on to a Golf Club Carrier.
My actual Report is HERE
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... the Rollers 2...&mid=26367
The car has been perfect, never missing a beat.. Long distance trips, hot running - stuck in traffic, general driving.. I couldn't recommend it enough.
It has been back on the Rollers once since, with very minor adjustments being made to improve running, rather than a re-setting excercise.
Basically the ECU in the car is for a standard V6 saloon (Ford Taurus), not a lightweight, sports car with different air intake, manifolds, gearing etc etc..... The 'Piggy Back' chip / ECU has adjustments which allow you set the car up to achieve the best performance possible.
HTH... Dave
My actual Report is HERE
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... the Rollers 2...&mid=26367
The car has been perfect, never missing a beat.. Long distance trips, hot running - stuck in traffic, general driving.. I couldn't recommend it enough.
It has been back on the Rollers once since, with very minor adjustments being made to improve running, rather than a re-setting excercise.
Basically the ECU in the car is for a standard V6 saloon (Ford Taurus), not a lightweight, sports car with different air intake, manifolds, gearing etc etc..... The 'Piggy Back' chip / ECU has adjustments which allow you set the car up to achieve the best performance possible.
HTH... Dave
Gary, I too have been pondering the performance upgrade route of a chip/ECU adjustment and like yourself would love to know how reliable and driveable the car is after modification.
Not wishing to hijack your post but is there anyone out there who has had the upgrade more recently. If so I'd be interested to know by whom and a rough idea of potential costs.
P.M me if you'd rather.
Thanks, Stu
Not wishing to hijack your post but is there anyone out there who has had the upgrade more recently. If so I'd be interested to know by whom and a rough idea of potential costs.
P.M me if you'd rather.
Thanks, Stu
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