Discussion
hi
i have have been looking for a decent motorway cruiser as i do about 350 miles a week and about 80% of that is down the m4 and m25 so i would love a comfy and luxury car to do this in.
i would have a budget of 10-11k maximum so really its going to be a 53 plate car with say 80k on the clock, is this going to be a problem? how reliable are the cars as i couldn't deal with paying bmw repair costs all the time and want sort of mpg would i get do 70mph on cruise? 27 mpg or over is fine and i understand town driving will drop the mpg greatly.
what sort of service costs are they on this car and are they deadlines or depends on how the car is driven?
looking at the old 7 series they still hold there money quite well so would these be the same and say would it lose more than say 5k in 3 years?
thanks guys.
i have have been looking for a decent motorway cruiser as i do about 350 miles a week and about 80% of that is down the m4 and m25 so i would love a comfy and luxury car to do this in.
i would have a budget of 10-11k maximum so really its going to be a 53 plate car with say 80k on the clock, is this going to be a problem? how reliable are the cars as i couldn't deal with paying bmw repair costs all the time and want sort of mpg would i get do 70mph on cruise? 27 mpg or over is fine and i understand town driving will drop the mpg greatly.
what sort of service costs are they on this car and are they deadlines or depends on how the car is driven?
looking at the old 7 series they still hold there money quite well so would these be the same and say would it lose more than say 5k in 3 years?
thanks guys.
Well to answer the easy part first, these 7 series (E65/6) rely on what is called CBS (condition based servicing) and were in fact the first BMW's to have this. It basically means that the various control modules in the vehicle will monitor the usage and specific environmental parameters the systems such as the engine, climate control, braking system etc. operate under and perform a 'lifespan' calculation counting down the mileage and/or time until that service item requires repalcement. So for you the owner you may need an oil service one month and microfilters the next, kind of does away with the traditional oil service/inspection system.
As for the car, I'd have difficulty recommending a V8 E65 to anyone without really deep pockets. From 10 years in the dealer network i saw the very first E65 and the very last ones, and have seen some of the bills passed to customers who have picked up a reasonable example for not very much money, that quickly turned into a moneypit.
There are three sides to the car as I see it; Firstly the least troublesome, the chassis and suspension system. These vehicles do wear out vaious ball joints at the front and rear but these arn't stupid money to replace. The V8 cars however will have 'Dynamic Drive' - a system that allows the car to corner very flatly using hydraulically adjustable anti-roll bars. These have a valveblock and a control unit. They do leak and they do fail internally, the system runs at close to 200bar peak pressure. Parts are very expensive and must be set up correctly (dealer). You may also have EDC (Electronic Damper control) although they don't fail too often.
Secondly the body electronics; A fully loaded E66 will have over 50 seperate control modules all uniquely encoded to the vehicle, failures can manifest themselves in a variety of symptoms ranging from a door that won't unlock to a flat battery or a completely dead car. The modules do sometimes fail as does the fibre optic bus network that links the audio and safety system components. You're looking at a dealer only fix here especially if programming is required, unfortunately most dealer staff never got their head around this cars electrics even now. Got a failed side light bulb? that's bumper off and headlight out to change on a facelifted car, an hours labour for a bulb.
And thirdly, that V8 engine (N62). When it's working right it's awesome, there's no other word. But if it goes wrong it can almost write the early cars off, the repair bills are that high! A common fault I saw towards the end of my BMW career was a coolant leak from the front of the engine. This is caused by a leaking seal that, to cut a long story short, involves both cylinder heads bring removed, and that's an engine out job. The valvetronic (variable valve lift system) components can fail and they're pretty expensive too.
Now I've just read what I've written and it sounds like the worst car in the world, it really isn't. A good E65 is a beautiful thing to spend time in, especially on the motorway. the problem is; it's a bloody complicated car and if it goes wrong you'll be lucky to find an independant that knows them well.
If I had to recommend one then a last of the line 730d would be the safest bet. Or have you considered the model that preceded it, the E38? A late, facelifted sport model (2001 740 sport?) is still a very nice car.
As for the car, I'd have difficulty recommending a V8 E65 to anyone without really deep pockets. From 10 years in the dealer network i saw the very first E65 and the very last ones, and have seen some of the bills passed to customers who have picked up a reasonable example for not very much money, that quickly turned into a moneypit.
There are three sides to the car as I see it; Firstly the least troublesome, the chassis and suspension system. These vehicles do wear out vaious ball joints at the front and rear but these arn't stupid money to replace. The V8 cars however will have 'Dynamic Drive' - a system that allows the car to corner very flatly using hydraulically adjustable anti-roll bars. These have a valveblock and a control unit. They do leak and they do fail internally, the system runs at close to 200bar peak pressure. Parts are very expensive and must be set up correctly (dealer). You may also have EDC (Electronic Damper control) although they don't fail too often.
Secondly the body electronics; A fully loaded E66 will have over 50 seperate control modules all uniquely encoded to the vehicle, failures can manifest themselves in a variety of symptoms ranging from a door that won't unlock to a flat battery or a completely dead car. The modules do sometimes fail as does the fibre optic bus network that links the audio and safety system components. You're looking at a dealer only fix here especially if programming is required, unfortunately most dealer staff never got their head around this cars electrics even now. Got a failed side light bulb? that's bumper off and headlight out to change on a facelifted car, an hours labour for a bulb.
And thirdly, that V8 engine (N62). When it's working right it's awesome, there's no other word. But if it goes wrong it can almost write the early cars off, the repair bills are that high! A common fault I saw towards the end of my BMW career was a coolant leak from the front of the engine. This is caused by a leaking seal that, to cut a long story short, involves both cylinder heads bring removed, and that's an engine out job. The valvetronic (variable valve lift system) components can fail and they're pretty expensive too.
Now I've just read what I've written and it sounds like the worst car in the world, it really isn't. A good E65 is a beautiful thing to spend time in, especially on the motorway. the problem is; it's a bloody complicated car and if it goes wrong you'll be lucky to find an independant that knows them well.
If I had to recommend one then a last of the line 730d would be the safest bet. Or have you considered the model that preceded it, the E38? A late, facelifted sport model (2001 740 sport?) is still a very nice car.
Edited by T-bagger on Tuesday 11th August 22:04
thanks you very much for you reply.
one of the best replys i have seen on this forum.
in all honesty by what you have discriped it sounds like my budget won't cover a 7 series as much as i like them. i have driven the model before and that was a lovely car to but again my uncle had one and after 4 years new he had some massive repair bill waiting for him and sold it so it puts me off buying a older 7 series.
i love the looks and the spec is amazing but it sounds like it was to complicated for its own good and not a car for a 25 year old man on a normaish wage.
many thanks for you help.
any good bmw to recomend for power and crusing without such high maintance bills?
one of the best replys i have seen on this forum.
in all honesty by what you have discriped it sounds like my budget won't cover a 7 series as much as i like them. i have driven the model before and that was a lovely car to but again my uncle had one and after 4 years new he had some massive repair bill waiting for him and sold it so it puts me off buying a older 7 series.
i love the looks and the spec is amazing but it sounds like it was to complicated for its own good and not a car for a 25 year old man on a normaish wage.
many thanks for you help.
any good bmw to recomend for power and crusing without such high maintance bills?
Great reply TB. Didn't realise they were so complex. Are all the electronics modules you mention so necessary...? What do the add over the previous gen car without them / combined into a handful of ECU's...? I find it appalling that BMW can make such a car knowing *full well* that after as little as 5 years it can be effectively written off by a shonky piece of electronics. Massively wasteful.
pitbull turbo said:
any good bmw to recomend for power and crusing without such high maintance bills?
As above, previous 7 Series E38 late model 740i is well worth a look. I almost bought one instead of my E39 540i. Tim Meeks website is a great source of informationAn independent BMW specialist who looks after many E65/E66 "airport cars" expressed many of the same concerns posted above regarding complexity, and difficulty to repair. Perhaps he just gets to see the difficult cases, such as the results of a bio diesel experiment with a 730d
I we haven't put you off the E65/66 yet, read "Anyone else regret buying their E65"
Edited by madou on Wednesday 12th August 17:39
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