Opinions Please: Centre Change Rod Linkage vs Cable-Shift
Discussion
I was recently able to acquire a rebuilt G50/52 transaxle. It came with a Cable-SHiFT system that was originally developed by Brandwood Cars http://www.cableshift.com/home.html
The question that I’m pondering is if I should use it or not. I set up the Cable-SHiFT on my work bench and it seems to work very well and transmits a pretty solid mechanical feel back to the shift handle. It uses a stock type coupling onto the G50 gear selector shaft that can be removed along with the shift cable bracket to return the transaxle back to the stock configuration if desired.
It only took about 5 mins. to adjust the cables in order to select all the gears plus reverse. (The only change that I made was to swap the very short 10” gear selector handle with a 15” handle from my drill press and the shift effort was vastly reduced.)
So now I am seeking opinions from persons who have tried both a GTR centre change rod linkage and an aftermarket G50 cable linkage. I want to gather information about convenience and shift feel before I take any actions to modify the existing mechanical shift bracket or drill any holes in the firewall.
As I understand it, the rod linkage can provide a more direct feel at the expense of a bit more noise and vibration transmitted into the cabin. There is also the issue of any relative movement between the transaxle and frame that could affect shifting ability due to misalignment. It does seem pretty fiddly to connect all of the linkages and u-joints in a LS7 application.
I would only have to drill one hole in the firewall for the linkage and attach some brackets to the frame with rivets for a stock installation however.
The Cable-SHiFT system seems pretty easy to install and running the cables seems pretty straight forward. Since the cable brackets are solidly attached to the G50 case, I would not need to worry about any relative movement between the transaxle and the frame.
I would need to drill 2 holes in the firewall and remove the rod linkage bracket. (I only have holes drilled for the emergency bake cables at present)
Can anyone share their experience and opinions?
Thanks
Peter
The question that I’m pondering is if I should use it or not. I set up the Cable-SHiFT on my work bench and it seems to work very well and transmits a pretty solid mechanical feel back to the shift handle. It uses a stock type coupling onto the G50 gear selector shaft that can be removed along with the shift cable bracket to return the transaxle back to the stock configuration if desired.
It only took about 5 mins. to adjust the cables in order to select all the gears plus reverse. (The only change that I made was to swap the very short 10” gear selector handle with a 15” handle from my drill press and the shift effort was vastly reduced.)
So now I am seeking opinions from persons who have tried both a GTR centre change rod linkage and an aftermarket G50 cable linkage. I want to gather information about convenience and shift feel before I take any actions to modify the existing mechanical shift bracket or drill any holes in the firewall.
As I understand it, the rod linkage can provide a more direct feel at the expense of a bit more noise and vibration transmitted into the cabin. There is also the issue of any relative movement between the transaxle and frame that could affect shifting ability due to misalignment. It does seem pretty fiddly to connect all of the linkages and u-joints in a LS7 application.
I would only have to drill one hole in the firewall for the linkage and attach some brackets to the frame with rivets for a stock installation however.
The Cable-SHiFT system seems pretty easy to install and running the cables seems pretty straight forward. Since the cable brackets are solidly attached to the G50 case, I would not need to worry about any relative movement between the transaxle and the frame.
I would need to drill 2 holes in the firewall and remove the rod linkage bracket. (I only have holes drilled for the emergency bake cables at present)
Can anyone share their experience and opinions?
Thanks
Peter
GTR-P said:
I was recently able to acquire a rebuilt G50/52 transaxle. It came with a Cable-SHiFT system that was originally developed by Brandwood Cars http://www.cableshift.com/home.html
The question that I’m pondering is if I should use it or not. I set up the Cable-SHiFT on my work bench and it seems to work very well and transmits a pretty solid mechanical feel back to the shift handle. It uses a stock type coupling onto the G50 gear selector shaft that can be removed along with the shift cable bracket to return the transaxle back to the stock configuration if desired.
It only took about 5 mins. to adjust the cables in order to select all the gears plus reverse. (The only change that I made was to swap the very short 10” gear selector handle with a 15” handle from my drill press and the shift effort was vastly reduced.)
So now I am seeking opinions from persons who have tried both a GTR centre change rod linkage and an aftermarket G50 cable linkage. I want to gather information about convenience and shift feel before I take any actions to modify the existing mechanical shift bracket or drill any holes in the firewall.
As I understand it, the rod linkage can provide a more direct feel at the expense of a bit more noise and vibration transmitted into the cabin. There is also the issue of any relative movement between the transaxle and frame that could affect shifting ability due to misalignment. It does seem pretty fiddly to connect all of the linkages and u-joints in a LS7 application.
I would only have to drill one hole in the firewall for the linkage and attach some brackets to the frame with rivets for a stock installation however.
The Cable-SHiFT system seems pretty easy to install and running the cables seems pretty straight forward. Since the cable brackets are solidly attached to the G50 case, I would not need to worry about any relative movement between the transaxle and the frame.
I would need to drill 2 holes in the firewall and remove the rod linkage bracket. (I only have holes drilled for the emergency bake cables at present)
Can anyone share their experience and opinions?
Thanks
Peter
If comparing cable to rod centre shift then cable is the way to go.The question that I’m pondering is if I should use it or not. I set up the Cable-SHiFT on my work bench and it seems to work very well and transmits a pretty solid mechanical feel back to the shift handle. It uses a stock type coupling onto the G50 gear selector shaft that can be removed along with the shift cable bracket to return the transaxle back to the stock configuration if desired.
It only took about 5 mins. to adjust the cables in order to select all the gears plus reverse. (The only change that I made was to swap the very short 10” gear selector handle with a 15” handle from my drill press and the shift effort was vastly reduced.)
So now I am seeking opinions from persons who have tried both a GTR centre change rod linkage and an aftermarket G50 cable linkage. I want to gather information about convenience and shift feel before I take any actions to modify the existing mechanical shift bracket or drill any holes in the firewall.
As I understand it, the rod linkage can provide a more direct feel at the expense of a bit more noise and vibration transmitted into the cabin. There is also the issue of any relative movement between the transaxle and frame that could affect shifting ability due to misalignment. It does seem pretty fiddly to connect all of the linkages and u-joints in a LS7 application.
I would only have to drill one hole in the firewall for the linkage and attach some brackets to the frame with rivets for a stock installation however.
The Cable-SHiFT system seems pretty easy to install and running the cables seems pretty straight forward. Since the cable brackets are solidly attached to the G50 case, I would not need to worry about any relative movement between the transaxle and the frame.
I would need to drill 2 holes in the firewall and remove the rod linkage bracket. (I only have holes drilled for the emergency bake cables at present)
Can anyone share their experience and opinions?
Thanks
Peter
My understanding is that the centre rod system can be a mare to get past the engine and get it running right.
If you have a 'box with cable then use it.
Steve
Edited by Steve_D on Wednesday 12th August 06:54
Yep good advise from the prof as ever....
I have been very lucky and driven a standard right hand shift on rods...
a centre shift on cables (to a Trag) and a centre shift on cables to a G50.
Imo i would always want cables, the change is much smoother and quieter!!! I think i would probably go for right hand shift on cables in a perfect scenario, it frees the cockpit up as the centre shift throws the seat out of line slightly. The cables are also lighter and easier to shape..... they also dont get in the way of the LS headers which makes the fitment of them easier and you can get some proper 1 7/8th" jobbies in there!!
I ll shut up now.
I have been very lucky and driven a standard right hand shift on rods...
a centre shift on cables (to a Trag) and a centre shift on cables to a G50.
Imo i would always want cables, the change is much smoother and quieter!!! I think i would probably go for right hand shift on cables in a perfect scenario, it frees the cockpit up as the centre shift throws the seat out of line slightly. The cables are also lighter and easier to shape..... they also dont get in the way of the LS headers which makes the fitment of them easier and you can get some proper 1 7/8th" jobbies in there!!
I ll shut up now.
How close do you want the lever to the steering wheel?
How much throw will be required on the lever for the shift action you want.
someone on hear, one of the USA owners , had a cnc'ed housing with cable shifter that was bolted to the original centre change bracket ?
cant remember who it was though. has some photos of it on there build site/blog, black g50/52 ls7 ?
edited to say its Paul,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?mem...
and the photos are hear
http://web.mac.com/quailpark/Pauls_buildsite/Shift...
How much throw will be required on the lever for the shift action you want.
someone on hear, one of the USA owners , had a cnc'ed housing with cable shifter that was bolted to the original centre change bracket ?
cant remember who it was though. has some photos of it on there build site/blog, black g50/52 ls7 ?
edited to say its Paul,
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?mem...
and the photos are hear
http://web.mac.com/quailpark/Pauls_buildsite/Shift...
Edited by ezakimak on Friday 14th August 08:45
The gear-change housing is different in my case. Paul's is manufactured by CMS and uses their side shifter G50 modification. (The alloy CMS shifter looks beautiful)
Mine is all steel and although I would certainly not call it beautiful, it looks purposeful and is very robust and rigid. To install the shifter I will need to remove the existing bracket in order to position the shifter so that the housing and cables do not interfere with the emergency brake handle and mechanism.
I’m also experimenting with various shift lever lengths and shapes to optimize the gear knob position and throw distance vs. effort for my application. I’m just using ¼” rod as an approximation for now as I can easily cut and bend it to estimate how it will work. I can get some reasonably priced 1/2” or 5/8" Titanium rod for the shift lever when the time comes and experiment with shift knobs of various weights to further optimize shift feel (ex: Al vs. Brass)
(P.S. I also thought about duplicating the stock rod linkage in Titanium but it gets a little too expensive)
Mine is all steel and although I would certainly not call it beautiful, it looks purposeful and is very robust and rigid. To install the shifter I will need to remove the existing bracket in order to position the shifter so that the housing and cables do not interfere with the emergency brake handle and mechanism.
I’m also experimenting with various shift lever lengths and shapes to optimize the gear knob position and throw distance vs. effort for my application. I’m just using ¼” rod as an approximation for now as I can easily cut and bend it to estimate how it will work. I can get some reasonably priced 1/2” or 5/8" Titanium rod for the shift lever when the time comes and experiment with shift knobs of various weights to further optimize shift feel (ex: Al vs. Brass)
(P.S. I also thought about duplicating the stock rod linkage in Titanium but it gets a little too expensive)
I have the same set up as Paul in my GTR. Paul's comment about the shifter interfering with the seat is correct. I changed the bottom mount plate out for a more narrow plate that I built, it allows the shifter to be posistioned a little further back in the car. Outside of that small issue the cockpit part of the shifter as shown in Pauls pics works as good as it looks. The system that you showed I do not like. The reason being that you are pulling the fore aft part of the pattern on a oblige angle that is going to cause a loss of leverage and feel. As shown in thier pictures the cross pattern cable is at a 90 degree angle to the motion which is correct. The fore aft should be in direct aligmant with the motion of the shift rod. This is why CMC builds the side shifter. One point on the CMC set up, unless or until they come up with a positive way of securing the cross motion arm to the shift shaft I would tell them that I will buy the system when you correct that problem. Currently they use a fine threaded set screw through the alloy arm onto the shaft without a flat spot. The arm will come loose..... I have made a arm that is thicker where the set screw goes through and gone to a bigger course threaded set screw and drilled the shaft for a contact hole for the set screw to engage. All of that has worked but I do not like modifing exspensive parts because somebody else did not do the job correctly in the first palce. CMS has stated that the shaft will be splined in the future. Lee
Thanks for the comments. I just measured the actual angle of the for-aft cable for the shift rod in the transaxle. The actual angle is much less than it appears in the G50/52 picture on their web site.
I consistently measure an angle of 3 deg. which seems less than the angle of the rod style mechanical linkage. (I’m still a little hesitant to proceed with the chassis modifications to make the cable conversion.)
BTW, do you know if the alloy CMS shifter component could be replaced with the one that I have? (I suppose its really just two cables that are made to move forward and backward.)
... That shifter sure is beautiful.
I consistently measure an angle of 3 deg. which seems less than the angle of the rod style mechanical linkage. (I’m still a little hesitant to proceed with the chassis modifications to make the cable conversion.)
BTW, do you know if the alloy CMS shifter component could be replaced with the one that I have? (I suppose its really just two cables that are made to move forward and backward.)
... That shifter sure is beautiful.
GTP: If thats three degrees I got some land in Florida. Just remember your trig class and know that the force that you will need to be applied at the shifter will be higher than if the cable was straight on. The answer to your question is yes the CMS billet shifter could be used. The kit you show pulls from the same direction as the CMS side shifter and the Back and forth throw is one to one. the side to side throw looks to be the same, it would be a result of the distance from the shaft to the bearing on the end of the cable and that looks very near the same. Good luck, Lee
Thanks for the info about the possibility of using the CMS shifter.
I have attached 2 photos as evidence of my claim on the angle of the for-aft cable to the G50 shift rod. The side view angle is a bit larger at about 5 Degrees. The top view angle is about 3 Degrees.
(The picture on the manufactures website is misleading)
Regards,
Peter
I have attached 2 photos as evidence of my claim on the angle of the for-aft cable to the G50 shift rod. The side view angle is a bit larger at about 5 Degrees. The top view angle is about 3 Degrees.
(The picture on the manufactures website is misleading)
Regards,
Peter
Edited by GTR-P on Saturday 15th August 20:32
Edited by GTR-P on Saturday 15th August 20:39
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