XJS A little guidance needed…
Discussion
I’ve always fancied a XJS and having hit 40 now think I’m mature enough to enjoy it for what it is… living in Belgium, the €800 per year road tax eliminates any chance of buying anything newer than 25 years – so for arguments sake say Pre -85 can I find a 3.6 manual ? or are they all V12’s and then the chance of finding a manual are almost impossible I guess. I’m rather scared of a V12, the idea of all the plumbing etc… can I fit a 4.2 XJ engine straight into a XJS eg will it bolt to the V12 and 3.6 manual or auto box ? then at the same time, maybe I should look for a manual box and all the extras..
Its already a project and I haven’t even found one….
Any decent websites worth visiting…
Kindest regards
Matthew
Its already a project and I haven’t even found one….
Any decent websites worth visiting…
Kindest regards
Matthew
V12 manual are very rare, they only made 272(?) I doubt any are in Belgium.
The engine should not be your biggest worry, it's actually pretty reliable and although it looks like a mess it's actually not *that* complicated, just fiddly. Good second hand engines are not difficult to find. Same with the rest of the running gear, it's pretty solid and relativly inexpensive. As are the electrics TBH (although some bits, like the air con can get expensive)
You need to be worried about the bodywork. Rust is a huge problem for these non galvanised cars, especially if it's that old. I would much much rather have a car with a good body and knackerd running gear then good running gear but a rusty body. The former is relativly cheap and simple to fix, the body will be massively expensive. It's also not too difficult to find a car with good gearbox/engine etc, good shells are rare (in the UK, anyway)
If you don't mind what engine it has then yes a 3.6 would be better. I would suggest you at least try the V12 though as they are magnificent.
I found this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/You-Your-Jaguar-XJS-mainta...
helpfull, not a great deal about buying (although there is a bit) but it does tell you lots about all the different variants/models made.
The engine should not be your biggest worry, it's actually pretty reliable and although it looks like a mess it's actually not *that* complicated, just fiddly. Good second hand engines are not difficult to find. Same with the rest of the running gear, it's pretty solid and relativly inexpensive. As are the electrics TBH (although some bits, like the air con can get expensive)
You need to be worried about the bodywork. Rust is a huge problem for these non galvanised cars, especially if it's that old. I would much much rather have a car with a good body and knackerd running gear then good running gear but a rusty body. The former is relativly cheap and simple to fix, the body will be massively expensive. It's also not too difficult to find a car with good gearbox/engine etc, good shells are rare (in the UK, anyway)
If you don't mind what engine it has then yes a 3.6 would be better. I would suggest you at least try the V12 though as they are magnificent.
I found this book:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/You-Your-Jaguar-XJS-mainta...
helpfull, not a great deal about buying (although there is a bit) but it does tell you lots about all the different variants/models made.
Edited by varsas on Wednesday 12th August 15:35
Thanks for the feedback, when ready I'll be looking for a RHD UK car as they ask crazy money for a LHD ... being an expat I happy to sit either side of the road...
The idea is to use for the odd track day and local events, rather than weekend blasts to the Provance, but still keeping it all reliable and road legal.
As I’m not looking to officially compete in it, I don’t need to worry about regulations, so my next question is which is the best to modify assuming they are all autos.. and is the 4.2 a better tuning engine over the 3.6.. Am I right in thinking the 3.6 HE is a economy bias engine ?
The engines have been around since the being of time and there is a popular race following, I’m hoping for a A-Z guide to tuning the old girl…
thanks for the link to the book, its on the shopping basket..
Many thanks Matt
The idea is to use for the odd track day and local events, rather than weekend blasts to the Provance, but still keeping it all reliable and road legal.
As I’m not looking to officially compete in it, I don’t need to worry about regulations, so my next question is which is the best to modify assuming they are all autos.. and is the 4.2 a better tuning engine over the 3.6.. Am I right in thinking the 3.6 HE is a economy bias engine ?
The engines have been around since the being of time and there is a popular race following, I’m hoping for a A-Z guide to tuning the old girl…
thanks for the link to the book, its on the shopping basket..
Many thanks Matt
Edited by goodwoodweirdo on Wednesday 12th August 16:01
Don't know if a 4.2 engine will fit, I have not heard of this being done. I would suspect it's too tall. A later 4litre AJ6 or AJ16 engine would be easier to fit and better (24valve vs 12valve for a start). You could even fit a 4litre supercharged engine off an X300 XJR if you were so inclined...maybe.
The HE is on the V12 engines. It indicates the later 'may fireball' head which gives much better economy under part load by swiriling and mixing the fuel/air so the engine car run on a more lean mixture. The 1992(?) on V12's are the 6litre versions, which also used a different gearbox.
for 6cyl engines, you had the AJ6 3.6 (don't know dates sorry, I'm away from home), then the AJ6 4.0 (post facelift 1990 cars) and the AJ16 4litre (very late cars only) which is a bit smoother then the AJ6 engine.
All 6 cylinder cars are 5speed manual/4 speed auto. Practically all V12's are auto, 5.3 being 3 speed, 6litre being 4 speed.
There are some 4sp early V12 manuals, and some TWR XJR-S manual V12's.
The HE is on the V12 engines. It indicates the later 'may fireball' head which gives much better economy under part load by swiriling and mixing the fuel/air so the engine car run on a more lean mixture. The 1992(?) on V12's are the 6litre versions, which also used a different gearbox.
for 6cyl engines, you had the AJ6 3.6 (don't know dates sorry, I'm away from home), then the AJ6 4.0 (post facelift 1990 cars) and the AJ16 4litre (very late cars only) which is a bit smoother then the AJ6 engine.
All 6 cylinder cars are 5speed manual/4 speed auto. Practically all V12's are auto, 5.3 being 3 speed, 6litre being 4 speed.
There are some 4sp early V12 manuals, and some TWR XJR-S manual V12's.
Edited by varsas on Wednesday 12th August 16:56
varsas said:
Don't know if a 4.2 engine will fit, I have not heard of this being done. I would suspect it's too tall. A later 4litre AJ6 or AJ16 engine would be easier to fit and better (24valve vs 12valve for a start). You could even fit a 4litre supercharged engine off an X300 XJR if you were so inclined...maybe.
The HE is on the V12 engines. It indicates the later 'may fireball' head which gives much better economy under part load by swiriling and mixing the fuel/air so the engine car run on a more lean mixture. The 1992(?) on V12's are the 6litre versions, which also used a different gearbox.
for 6cyl engines, you had the AJ6 3.6 (don't know dates sorry, I'm away from home), then the AJ6 4.0 (post facelift 1990 cars) and the AJ16 4litre (very late cars only) which is a bit smoother then the AJ6 engine.
All 6 cylinder cars are 5speed manual/4 speed auto. Practically all V12's are auto, 5.3 being 3 speed, 6litre being 4 speed.
There are some 4sp early V12 manuals, and some TWR XJR-S manual V12's.
Right, AJ16 being 95 & 96 only (last year of XJS) and the most reliable. I have a 95 and can vouch for it! The HE is on the V12 engines. It indicates the later 'may fireball' head which gives much better economy under part load by swiriling and mixing the fuel/air so the engine car run on a more lean mixture. The 1992(?) on V12's are the 6litre versions, which also used a different gearbox.
for 6cyl engines, you had the AJ6 3.6 (don't know dates sorry, I'm away from home), then the AJ6 4.0 (post facelift 1990 cars) and the AJ16 4litre (very late cars only) which is a bit smoother then the AJ6 engine.
All 6 cylinder cars are 5speed manual/4 speed auto. Practically all V12's are auto, 5.3 being 3 speed, 6litre being 4 speed.
There are some 4sp early V12 manuals, and some TWR XJR-S manual V12's.
Edited by varsas on Wednesday 12th August 16:56
ETA: The 90s XJS offerings were galavanized and rarely rust.
Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 13th August 12:54
Your biggest problem with an older XJS by far will be rust, leaks and iffy electrics, they are not too bad to work on otherwise and both the AJ6 / 16 and V12 engines are bombproof if cared for
Someone has fitted the supercharged AJ16 engine from an X300 XJR into an XJS - I think there was an article in the JEC magazine a few years ago. You'll need to bear in mind if you increase power you'll soon need to improve the handling and braking too which can be done but will ruin the ride quality and start to get expensive.
I'd suggest you have a drive of a few XJSs first and see what potential there is and find out more about the Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club racing (jec-racing.org) too. There's a number of XJ and XJS in the series and talking to an owner would be the best place to access more information.
Someone has fitted the supercharged AJ16 engine from an X300 XJR into an XJS - I think there was an article in the JEC magazine a few years ago. You'll need to bear in mind if you increase power you'll soon need to improve the handling and braking too which can be done but will ruin the ride quality and start to get expensive.
I'd suggest you have a drive of a few XJSs first and see what potential there is and find out more about the Jaguar Enthusiasts' Club racing (jec-racing.org) too. There's a number of XJ and XJS in the series and talking to an owner would be the best place to access more information.
I have seen an XK engine put in an XJS, it was a 2.8 litre with triple SU's. I can't imagine why it was done.
If you want a six cylinder car not the V12 I can only echo what others in this thread have already said. The AJ6 and AJ16 are fine engines, and are far stronger than the old XK engine.
Regards
Ric
If you want a six cylinder car not the V12 I can only echo what others in this thread have already said. The AJ6 and AJ16 are fine engines, and are far stronger than the old XK engine.
Regards
Ric
The best built XJ-S's are the post 1990 facelift ones. But many people (me included) think these cars were also spoiled, with the Ford parts bin switches and "revised" back end styling. They do rust less, but I've still seen ones with scabby sills and rotten front crossmembers.
Pre 1985 cars your into V12's and early 3.6 manuals. The latter cars aren't the best XJ-S's really, engines are rough and its a really crap fuel injection system.
For me and many others, the XJS reached its zenith in the late 1980's, but I guess thats too young for you. It depends what you want, don't think you can tart up a rough one - you will spend more than if you bought a nice example to start with.
V12 is very thirsty and 2nd mortgage territory if the engine breaks. The 6 cylinder units (3.6 and 4.0) are more durable plus its the same engine (and gearbox) in the XJ40 so easy to get a cheap replacement. Oh the 6 cylinder cars handle better too. But that said nothing beats the smoothness of that V12.
Yes you can make a 4.2 go into an XJS, you might need to use the bonnet off a 3.6 (which has a slight bulge for the taller engine). But I wouldn't bother, its a rubbish engine compared with the later 3.6 and 4.0 units. Big job to convert a V12 into a 6 cylinder as you have to change the diff also (MUCH different ratio).
Biggest problem with all of them is rust, as I say engine and gearbox isn't such a big deal, esp with the 6 cylinder cars since its common with the XJ40. Even a scabby interior can be put right as there are so man y cars being broken up. You ideally need to be a competent DIY mechanic, it will save you a fortune and really they are not complicated cars to work on. All of them are old cars and therefore not really cost effective if you have to sub out all your repairs.
At the moment, you can find near mint cars, if you are patient. As for prices, a shed will make 200-300 quid, but mint pre 1990 coupes are making 5 grand or so. Post 1990 cars seem cheaper, at the moment.
There's a website called www.jaglovers.org, its possible to get some useful info off there. Also I did a few notes myself too
You will see that my car is an early 3.6, and basically I threw that engine away and fitted a 4.0 engine complete with its newer EFI system, out of a 1991 Daimler Sovereign.
Good luck
Rob
Pre 1985 cars your into V12's and early 3.6 manuals. The latter cars aren't the best XJ-S's really, engines are rough and its a really crap fuel injection system.
For me and many others, the XJS reached its zenith in the late 1980's, but I guess thats too young for you. It depends what you want, don't think you can tart up a rough one - you will spend more than if you bought a nice example to start with.
V12 is very thirsty and 2nd mortgage territory if the engine breaks. The 6 cylinder units (3.6 and 4.0) are more durable plus its the same engine (and gearbox) in the XJ40 so easy to get a cheap replacement. Oh the 6 cylinder cars handle better too. But that said nothing beats the smoothness of that V12.
Yes you can make a 4.2 go into an XJS, you might need to use the bonnet off a 3.6 (which has a slight bulge for the taller engine). But I wouldn't bother, its a rubbish engine compared with the later 3.6 and 4.0 units. Big job to convert a V12 into a 6 cylinder as you have to change the diff also (MUCH different ratio).
Biggest problem with all of them is rust, as I say engine and gearbox isn't such a big deal, esp with the 6 cylinder cars since its common with the XJ40. Even a scabby interior can be put right as there are so man y cars being broken up. You ideally need to be a competent DIY mechanic, it will save you a fortune and really they are not complicated cars to work on. All of them are old cars and therefore not really cost effective if you have to sub out all your repairs.
At the moment, you can find near mint cars, if you are patient. As for prices, a shed will make 200-300 quid, but mint pre 1990 coupes are making 5 grand or so. Post 1990 cars seem cheaper, at the moment.
There's a website called www.jaglovers.org, its possible to get some useful info off there. Also I did a few notes myself too
You will see that my car is an early 3.6, and basically I threw that engine away and fitted a 4.0 engine complete with its newer EFI system, out of a 1991 Daimler Sovereign.
Good luck
Rob
Hi again,
If I was buying another, I'd go for an automatic for certain. The manual gearbox cars can be beasts, certainly on the six cylinders. The gate is a very close one and it is fairly easy to mis select. On the 3.6 cabriolet I drove for a while, there wasn't a detent there for reverse (or if it was it was very worn) which made selecting first interesting.
The V12 is nice but is over complex and a plumbers nightmare. Unless you really want one for hat it is, it's not really worth it. All you gain is about a second from 0-140mph... and on the 0-60 the six very often can keep a V12 honest. The four speed auto makes a world of difference compared to the three speed in the V12.
If I were going to pick a car it would be a 1989 - 1991 pre facelift 3.6 litre.
You get the benefits then of the sports set-up with rear anti roll bar, slightly lower and stiffer set-up and those rather nice lattice alloy wheels. The interior is better with bolstered sides on the seats, and some of the older slightly iffy switchgear had been changed.
Between £10 and about £800 gets you scrap. £800 to £1500 gets you a car that is hanging on to it's legality by the skin of it's teeth. £1500 to £3000 will find you a useable if slightly scruffy car. Over that and you should be in the really good stuff.
If you are going to look at one (I can't really speak for the post 1991 cars - never played with them!) there's the usual Jaguar troble spots of sills, door bottoms, radius arms, headlamp peaks, but the more diificult to spot are:
Front radiator crossmember (has a foam pad, and the front splitter hides it)
Front shocker mounts on the inner wings (hidden by airflow meter one side and the coolant tank on the other.)
Front windscreen lower corners (just under the edge of the chrome trim)
Front wing lower edges where it meets the sill (there's an atmospheric recovery bottle in one that causes all kind of chaos)
Rear windscreen lower corners, sometimes leading along the butresses. (tip: open the boot and reach up inside the butress. fell along the inside of it, there should be no rust. Often it hides inside for a long time before breaking through.)
Rear lower quarters... there should be a drain hole in the bottom of each one. If there isn't start getting suspicious as water damage will occur!
Mechanical issues aren't such a prolems aren't such an issue as most of the mechanical components are shared with other models. The only things I would be worried about is if the diff is making significant amounts of noise, and the operation of the handbrake. Believe it or not some car dealers (including the one I bought a 3.6 from in Leicester) insist until they are blue in the face the handbrake is broken as the lever returns to the floor and drive the car with it applied. It gets quite expensive if you have to have a brake rebuild done unless you do it yourself.
Internally, check the condition of the trim as getting hold of some colours in good condition is quite difficult, as a lot of cars had matched piping on the lighter interiors. The drivers seat side bolster usually takes a battering from the seat belt retracting, and the driver getting in and out, and the piping splits. The headlining will more than likely starting to descend, and cannot be repaired in place... the foam sandwich between the material and the backing has died and need removing. It's easy done though and kits are available.
Check the heater and air conditioning system operate completely! Heater trouble can be very often a dashboard out job, and the air conditioning can be expensive to repair.
Despite everything I've said; out of the several XJS' I've had and the ones I've helped find and maintain for my friends, the one I've kept for myself is my shed of an 1983 V12!! There's nothing like following your own advice. Do pop over to Jag-lovers, there's many more like me over there who know the XJS way better than I do.
The problem you will find is if you let the XJS near you it will grab your heart and not let go. They're a gorgeous car and under appreciated. There will be one you'll find (or it will find you..) and that will be it. Throw your bank card in the glovebox; enjoy the people looking because it's something diferent and enjoy it. I've never been without an XJS or XJ6 since I could drive and I'd not have it any other way.
Regards,
Ric
If I was buying another, I'd go for an automatic for certain. The manual gearbox cars can be beasts, certainly on the six cylinders. The gate is a very close one and it is fairly easy to mis select. On the 3.6 cabriolet I drove for a while, there wasn't a detent there for reverse (or if it was it was very worn) which made selecting first interesting.
The V12 is nice but is over complex and a plumbers nightmare. Unless you really want one for hat it is, it's not really worth it. All you gain is about a second from 0-140mph... and on the 0-60 the six very often can keep a V12 honest. The four speed auto makes a world of difference compared to the three speed in the V12.
If I were going to pick a car it would be a 1989 - 1991 pre facelift 3.6 litre.
You get the benefits then of the sports set-up with rear anti roll bar, slightly lower and stiffer set-up and those rather nice lattice alloy wheels. The interior is better with bolstered sides on the seats, and some of the older slightly iffy switchgear had been changed.
Between £10 and about £800 gets you scrap. £800 to £1500 gets you a car that is hanging on to it's legality by the skin of it's teeth. £1500 to £3000 will find you a useable if slightly scruffy car. Over that and you should be in the really good stuff.
If you are going to look at one (I can't really speak for the post 1991 cars - never played with them!) there's the usual Jaguar troble spots of sills, door bottoms, radius arms, headlamp peaks, but the more diificult to spot are:
Front radiator crossmember (has a foam pad, and the front splitter hides it)
Front shocker mounts on the inner wings (hidden by airflow meter one side and the coolant tank on the other.)
Front windscreen lower corners (just under the edge of the chrome trim)
Front wing lower edges where it meets the sill (there's an atmospheric recovery bottle in one that causes all kind of chaos)
Rear windscreen lower corners, sometimes leading along the butresses. (tip: open the boot and reach up inside the butress. fell along the inside of it, there should be no rust. Often it hides inside for a long time before breaking through.)
Rear lower quarters... there should be a drain hole in the bottom of each one. If there isn't start getting suspicious as water damage will occur!
Mechanical issues aren't such a prolems aren't such an issue as most of the mechanical components are shared with other models. The only things I would be worried about is if the diff is making significant amounts of noise, and the operation of the handbrake. Believe it or not some car dealers (including the one I bought a 3.6 from in Leicester) insist until they are blue in the face the handbrake is broken as the lever returns to the floor and drive the car with it applied. It gets quite expensive if you have to have a brake rebuild done unless you do it yourself.
Internally, check the condition of the trim as getting hold of some colours in good condition is quite difficult, as a lot of cars had matched piping on the lighter interiors. The drivers seat side bolster usually takes a battering from the seat belt retracting, and the driver getting in and out, and the piping splits. The headlining will more than likely starting to descend, and cannot be repaired in place... the foam sandwich between the material and the backing has died and need removing. It's easy done though and kits are available.
Check the heater and air conditioning system operate completely! Heater trouble can be very often a dashboard out job, and the air conditioning can be expensive to repair.
Despite everything I've said; out of the several XJS' I've had and the ones I've helped find and maintain for my friends, the one I've kept for myself is my shed of an 1983 V12!! There's nothing like following your own advice. Do pop over to Jag-lovers, there's many more like me over there who know the XJS way better than I do.
The problem you will find is if you let the XJS near you it will grab your heart and not let go. They're a gorgeous car and under appreciated. There will be one you'll find (or it will find you..) and that will be it. Throw your bank card in the glovebox; enjoy the people looking because it's something diferent and enjoy it. I've never been without an XJS or XJ6 since I could drive and I'd not have it any other way.
Regards,
Ric
richw_82 said:
and the operation of the handbrake. Believe it or not some car dealers (including the one I bought a 3.6 from in Leicester) insist until they are blue in the face the handbrake is broken as the lever returns to the floor and drive the car with it applied.
The number of professional car people who don't know/can't use a fly-off handbrake is quite surprising. I had to actually release/apply it for someone at the local exhaust place...this after me asking 'will you be alright driving it?' and him saying 'of course'richw_82 said:
Hi again,
If I was buying another, I'd go for an automatic for certain. The manual gearbox cars can be beasts, certainly on the six cylinders. The gate is a very close one and it is fairly easy to mis select. On the 3.6 cabriolet I drove for a while, there wasn't a detent there for reverse (or if it was it was very worn) which made selecting first interesting.
I think the one you drove must have had a duff gearshift, on my own car (6 cylinder manual) the shift is very good, and if anything the reverse detent it a bit too stiff. I've driven a few others too, and they all seemed pretty good.If I was buying another, I'd go for an automatic for certain. The manual gearbox cars can be beasts, certainly on the six cylinders. The gate is a very close one and it is fairly easy to mis select. On the 3.6 cabriolet I drove for a while, there wasn't a detent there for reverse (or if it was it was very worn) which made selecting first interesting.
Can't comment on the 3.6 auto, but I've driven a few 4.0 jaguars and really they just don't cut the mustard, performance-wise. They are suprisingly gutless off the mark, and don't get going till you reach 30mph or so. The torque converter has quite a low stall speed (perhaps for economy) but the downside to that is that midrange acceleration suffers a bit (unless you use the kickdown all the time).
The 3.6 isn't very torquey low down really, the 4.0 engine has a milder cam so delivers is peak torque lower down. I think the 4.0 engine is much better with a manual box, the whole car feels more on top of its job, somehow. Whereas the 3.6 needs to be thrashed a bit to make brisk progress.
Don't forget also that automatics are far more prone to developing faults as they get older. By contrast, that hulking big getrag manual they fit, will last forever.
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