ELISE S1 or S2 for fun/track day car

[Halo]

Looking to purchase an Elise for a weekend fun/track day car and was not sure if to get a S1 or S2 for the job. Budget does not really stretch to an S2, but could find the extra cash if needed. Would appreciate any feedback on this subject. ps original budget was around £9000.

[RGelise]

Hello Ian. I bought an S1 4years ago for the same perpose. My budget was also around the £9000 mark. Since then the car has become more of a trackday car, as it is very addictive. However even with the mods the car is ideal for weekend use. The wife and I still use it to go away for long weekends. This allows me to enjoy the car other than on track and limits the amount of useless tat that the wife can buy, while we are away. "If it doesn't fit in. It's not coming home!" Many people will have different advise. The MK2 is a slightly more refined as apposed to the back to basics of the S1. Looking at current prices, I believe if brought wisely, an S1 would allow you to enjoy the fun of owning an elise. And when the time comes to sell you would not lose much, allowing you to move to an Mk2 if you wish. Try driving both, and remember the car is for, you not anyone on here. Good luck whatever you choose to do, and welcome in advance.

[mike_knott]

I don't think you really need an S2 for track driving, so if your budget doesn't stretch that far, you will be more than happy with an S1.

Mike...

[Birdthom]

I have an LRG S1 with 160bhp, Nitron NTRs, uprated toe links, Yoko Advan Neovas, 340R geo, Pagid blues, braided hoses, uprated fluid and a load of other sensible tweaks to make it into a great road and track car. That's the sort of spec I'd recommend.

By happy coincidence, I'll probably be selling it very soon to fund PBMW racing next year. I was going to advertise for £9.5k. If you'd be interested then just let me know. It's got 45k miles and has just been fully 'C' serviced with absolutely everthing done (cambelt, plugs, water pump, coolant, cam timing, new rocker gasket etc etc).

Sorry for the blatant advert, but it seems pretty relevant!

Cheers

Tom.

[kambites]

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

[Birdthom]

The S1 is a lot more fun out of the box than an S2, particularly on track.

For sub-£10k you'll get a pretty ropey S2 which you will end up spending money on to get the the sort of spec you want, or a very well sorted S1. I'd go for the S1 every time. It would be lots more fun and pretty quick too.

Don't get me wrong, the S2 is a great car, but it's a bit more like a normal 'proper' everyday car and you don't really need (or want) that for weekend blasts and track days.

If you need to use it every day then get an S2. Otherwise go for an S1 IMO.

Hope that helps - good luck either way.

T

[TIPPER]

S1 all the way.
For your use add Nitron dampers with 400/475 springs (you can go siffer but it feels like a nice compromise and S2 suspension is too soft for serious track work), Uprated brakes, and a bit more power than standard helps (Birthom's car sounds ideal) after a while. Harnesses are good as they help you feel more a one wih the car.
Don't forget to join Lotus on Track either: good vfm and superbly oranised tracks days. Huge choice of them thoughout the year too.

[noodleman]

Birdthom said:

I have an LRG S1 with 160bhp, Nitron NTRs, uprated toe links, Yoko Advan Neovas, 340R geo, Pagid blues, braided hoses, uprated fluid and a load of other sensible tweaks to make it into a great road and track car. That's the sort of spec I'd recommend.

By happy coincidence, I'll probably be selling it very soon to fund PBMW racing next year. I was going to advertise for £9.5k. If you'd be interested then just let me know. It's got 45k miles and has just been fully 'C' serviced with absolutely everthing done (cambelt, plugs, water pump, coolant, cam timing, new rocker gasket etc etc).

Sorry for the blatant advert, but it seems pretty relevant!

Cheers

Tom.

This kind of car sounds perfect for your use. Perhaps put R888s on if a fair weather / track car only.

[Birdthom]

noodleman said:

This kind of car sounds perfect for your use. Perhaps put R888s on if a fair weather / track car only.

Good point - it's something I've considered for this car, and have done before on other cars. It will certainly go faster on 888s, but the Neovas are already very good and are more versatile in the wet etc. Carrying a spare set of wheels to the track isn't really an option in the Elise! Also, track-specific rubber tends to mean more bills for bearings, pads and discs etc, so I've left it on the Neovas for now. 888s are certainly a good cheap way to go very fast and have a lot of fun for very little outlay though. All a bit off topic, but may be of use to the OP.

[TIPPER]

Birdthom said:

noodleman said:

This kind of car sounds perfect for your use. Perhaps put R888s on if a fair weather / track car only.

Good point - it's something I've considered for this car, and have done before on other cars. It will certainly go faster on 888s, but the Neovas are already very good and are more versatile in the wet etc. Carrying a spare set of wheels to the track isn't really an option in the Elise! Also, track-specific rubber tends to mean more bills for bearings, pads and discs etc, so I've left it on the Neovas for now. 888s are certainly a good cheap way to go very fast and have a lot of fun for very little outlay though. All a bit off topic, but may be of use to the OP.

Note to the OP: Uprate toelinks before3 fitting sticky tyres (like 888s).

[noodleman]

The car mentioned already has these though but yes, stiff suspension and uprated toe links are a must.

[Mark B]

kambites said:

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

I wouldn't! S2 suspension is not stiff enough on the track, you will get huge amounts of roll and a reduction in traction.

[kambites]

Mark B said:

kambites said:

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

I wouldn't! S2 suspension is not stiff enough on the track, you will get huge amounts of roll and a reduction in traction.

OK, not S2 suspension. But something other than standard S1 suspension.

He doesn't want it tooooo stiff if it's going to be a weekend road car as well. Is there a good adjustable setup which is likely to fall within budget?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 13th August 20:20

[Mark B]

GAZ will give him some adjustment and are getting good reviews for £600. If it is a track car/fun car then a stiffer set up and adjustable height will be a good option.

Also, to the OP, there is a lovely S2 on SELOC for sale by Bunny, it has had a well documented suspension refresh last winter/this spring and is for sale at £9k. As far as I know it is a good car, bought very cheaply as it was a shed and had a LOT of loving put into it.

I have no connection with Bunny, except to say he seems a decent chap and has done a good job.

[Halo]

Thinking S1 would be a good buy for what I want, has anybody got a particular model in mind, would the 135 sport be suitable? Thanks for all input on this topic.

[TIPPER]

kambites said:

Mark B said:

kambites said:

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

I wouldn't! S2 suspension is not stiff enough on the track, you will get huge amounts of roll and a reduction in traction.

OK, not S2 suspension. But something other than standard S1 suspension.

He doesn't want it tooooo stiff if it's going to be a weekend road car as well. Is there a good adjustable setup which is likely to fall within budget?

Edited by kambites on Thursday 13th August 20:20

I've got standard Nitrons with 400 front and 475 rear springs. The ride is fine on the road (Most of my road driving is over Devon's B roads) - and in fact its surprisingly comfy on Mways. The idea of adjustable dampers is so that you can adjust the dampers to your car (think weight of car relative to suspension spring rates, tyre sidewall stiffness/rate etc) not to adjust the ride aquality. If you do that you're asking the damper to do the job of the spring. I've spent a fair while playing with the dampers on my car and slackening them off for road use doesn't really play as the damping ends up out of line with the springs so the car never really feels properly settled. It may feel a bit 'softer' but its not neccessarily a better ride and the car doesn't feel right. Once you've got a base setting then you don't really need to move them around much from that.
Worth talking to Randy at Hoffmans as he does bespoke Nitrons for the Elise and recommends even stiffer springs (although he also uses a softer tender too) with his bespoke valving. Those that have them report great performance on track and road.

[dom180]

Mark B said:

kambites said:

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

I wouldn't! S2 suspension is not stiff enough on the track, you will get huge amounts of roll and a reduction in traction.

Comparing standard cars as they left the factory that's not actually the case - the S2 is stiffer by around 20% than the S1 and has far better damping and also has a lower ride hight- it may feel softer but that's just because the package is so good.

Of course if you're going to replace all the suspension components and fit uprated/racing versions then the S1 is marginally lighter but offset that against the S2's slightly wider track, closer ratio gearbox and marginally improved weight distribution F:R.

[Mark B]

dom180 said:

Mark B said:

kambites said:

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

I wouldn't! S2 suspension is not stiff enough on the track, you will get huge amounts of roll and a reduction in traction.

Comparing standard cars as they left the factory that's not actually the case - the S2 is stiffer by around 20% than the S1 and has far better damping and also has a lower ride hight- it may feel softer but that's just because the package is so good.

I wasn't comparing standard cars, I was expressing concern that fitting S2 suspension would give a good set up for a track day / fun car, which it won't, it's not stiff enough! When I had S2 suspension I was getting way way too much roll in a variety of corners leading to a dramatic loss of traction as the car lifted the rear inside wheel and started it spinning.

It doesn't feel softer, it feels stiffer and far better damped than standard, but it's ultimately not stiff enough for a track biased car. If the car is to be a road car then the S2 stuff is pretty good, but not if you will be doing track days. After 1 or 2, you'd want to change it.

[dom180]

Mark B said:

dom180 said:

Mark B said:

kambites said:

For that money I'd go for an S1 and maybe fit S2 suspension. IMHO, most of the other advantages that the S2 brings are there to make it easier to live with and wouldn't buy you a huge amount on the track or occasional weekend blasts.

Well, actually what I'd do is buy a Caterham.

I wouldn't! S2 suspension is not stiff enough on the track, you will get huge amounts of roll and a reduction in traction.

Comparing standard cars as they left the factory that's not actually the case - the S2 is stiffer by around 20% than the S1 and has far better damping and also has a lower ride hight- it may feel softer but that's just because the package is so good.

I wasn't comparing standard cars, I was expressing concern that fitting S2 suspension would give a good set up for a track day / fun car, which it won't, it's not stiff enough! When I had S2 suspension I was getting way way too much roll in a variety of corners leading to a dramatic loss of traction as the car lifted the rear inside wheel and started it spinning.

It doesn't feel softer, it feels stiffer and far better damped than standard, but it's ultimately not stiff enough for a track biased car. If the car is to be a road car then the S2 stuff is pretty good, but not if you will be doing track days. After 1 or 2, you'd want to change it.

Ah, ok, I misunderstood.

For a few track days/year and mostly road I find standard S2 fine (and say S2 135R spec far too harsh) - any harder for me and road driving becomes a pain although on smoother less crowded and well sighted Continental roads standard S2 can feel a bit soft - be nice to have dedicated road/track options....

[Birdthom]

Halo said:

Thinking S1 would be a good buy for what I want, has anybody got a particular model in mind, would the 135 sport be suitable? Thanks for all input on this topic.

The 135 Sport would be great, but they tend to be rather overpriced for what you get IMHO. You can get a much better spec for less money if you go for a modified standard car. It's all a bit academic to talk about particular models, as unless the car has always been a garage queen (which you wouldn't really want for a track car anyway) then they have usually had many of the important bits replaced or upgraded.

There are so many variables that you can tailor any S1 to suit your needs. The trick when buying 2nd hand is to find one which already has all the bits you want as it will be much cheaper than paying for the upgrades yourself. I'd say don't get too hung up on the particular model, just look around for one with the spec you want at the right price.

Also, bear in mind that some upgrades are very cheap, and others cost an awful lot more. If you only want a car with 135bhp or less, S2 suspension, harnesses and not much more then it would be fine to buy a good unmodified car and get these upgrades fitted yourself as they are not too expensive. However, if you want a car with mega-power, trick suspension and all the other bells and whistles then do yourself a favour and buy one which has already been done - you will save thousands.

If you particularly want a 135 Sport/160/Special Chapman Heritage Edition then go for it, they are all lovely cars. But if you aren't that fussed then just buy a standard car with the bits you want.

When deciding on spec, make sure you pick a balance which suits you. A fairly basic car will be lovely on the road but you may get a bit frustrated on track, whereas a VHPD-engined car with carbon seats, harnesses, aggressive squealy brakes, bolt-hard suspension and AO48s will be a fantastic track car but pretty frustrating if you want to use it on road more than track. There are all sorts of variables in between to suit the balance you want, just do your research and try to think about what will *really* suit your purposes best. Try not to get carried away with trick bits anyway - the best upgrade is usually the nut behind the wheel!

Sorry if that sounds like a patronising load of old cr@p - they are all great and you will love whatever you buy.

T